After 1 year of diversified bitcoin dice house bank investment we lost 32.46%

[BTCevo]

Why are you so sure that your peerbet is the best when there is still so many dice sites that have higher bankroll than you guys, like dadice for example or may be primedice. There are so many dice site that got higher bankroll lo houseedge and still you claim that you are the best for investment. It doesnt make any sense

[1715145210]

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[shulio]

Why are you so sure that your peerbet is the best when there is still so many dice sites that have higher bankroll than you guys, like dadice for example or may be primedice. There are so many dice site that got higher bankroll lo houseedge and still you claim that you are the best for investment. It doesnt make any sense

huge bankroll had nothing to do with the annual return. There are many several things to consider , one of the thing is that the house edge for investor , house edge for players and the wagered ammount in the site. The turnover is actually what you will gain as a investor and it had nothing to do with the bankroll

[NLNico]

Why are you so sure that your peerbet is the best when there is still so many dice sites that have higher bankroll than you guys, like dadice for example or may be primedice. There are so many dice site that got higher bankroll lo houseedge and still you claim that you are the best for investment. It doesnt make any sense

huge bankroll had nothing to do with the annual return. There are many several things to consider , one of the thing is that the house edge for investor , house edge for players and the wagered ammount in the site. The turnover is actually what you will gain as a investor and it had nothing to do with the bankroll

Bankroll is definitely relevant. Actually because the BR is so relatively small at peerbet your expected return is relatively high since with 1 coin you will have a bigger percentage of the winnings (and losses.)

Since most sites allow investing on margin, bankroll shouldn't be used though but the "virtual bankroll" should be used. I tried to explain it before to OP but he seemed confused and I can't care too much to explain further. Without the "wagered" numbers it's unclear if the given numbers are correct but you should probably assume the "turnover / expected annual return" numbers are incorrect.

[shulio]

Why are you so sure that your peerbet is the best when there is still so many dice sites that have higher bankroll than you guys, like dadice for example or may be primedice. There are so many dice site that got higher bankroll lo houseedge and still you claim that you are the best for investment. It doesnt make any sense

huge bankroll had nothing to do with the annual return. There are many several things to consider , one of the thing is that the house edge for investor , house edge for players and the wagered ammount in the site. The turnover is actually what you will gain as a investor and it had nothing to do with the bankroll

Bankroll is definitely relevant. Actually because the BR is so relatively small at peerbet your expected return is relatively high since with 1 coin you will have a bigger percentage of the winnings (and losses.)

Since most sites allow investing on margin, bankroll shouldn't be used though but the "virtual bankroll" should be used. I tried to explain it before to OP but he seemed confused and I can't care too much to explain further. Without the "wagered" numbers it's unclear if the given numbers are correct but you should probably assume the "turnover / expected annual return" numbers are incorrect.

I see so bankroll is a definitive aspect for it too. Since you mentioned the wagered amount, I realized that there is none of it presented here and I do think that their is a flaw in the data since there is no formula presented here as well how do OP get the number of the annual return

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

Bankroll is definitely relevant. Actually because the BR is so relatively small at peerbet your expected return is relatively high since with 1 coin you will have a bigger percentage of the winnings (and losses.)

Incorrect, The size of the bankroll and your % of the bankroll is irrelevant, if your ฿1 investment is 0.1% of a bank that is turned over 100 times per year with an investors edge of 0.9% you expect the exact same return as if your ฿1 investment is 10% or whatever% of a bank that is turned over the same amount of times and has the same investors edge.

What you might be getting at is that you could assume a smaller bank will be turned over more often and that would increase your expected return.

Since most sites allow investing on margin, bankroll shouldn't be used though but the "virtual bankroll" should be used. I tried to explain it before to OP but he seemed confused and I can't care too much to explain further. Without the "wagered" numbers it's unclear if the given numbers are correct but you should probably assume the "turnover / expected annual return" numbers are incorrect.

When I checked most sites did not provide a virtual bankroll figure, I am not confused by what it is or what figures should be used. Obviously the wagered numbers are used to calculate the turnover and the expected annual return.  

I see so bankroll is a definitive aspect for it too. Since you mentioned the wagered amount, I realized that there is none of it presented here and I do think that their is a flaw in the data since there is no formula presented here as well how do OP get the number of the annual return

Annual return is current return extrapolated to a year with compounding, perhaps you mean expected annual return, see footnote 2 and 3 for on the page for that

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

2 Bank turnover is how often an amount equal the house bank is bet. This is how often the investors edge should be realized. For example if a site has a 0.9% investors edge and it takes 23 days for the bank to be bet through, then investors should make 0.9% every 23 days. We tracking this over a rolling 90 days.

3 Expected annual return is how many times a bank turnover occurs in a year multiplied by the investors edge with compounding.

I guess I could/should wright out all the formulas as numerical equations as well as sentences as they are here...

[NLNico]

Bankroll is definitely relevant. Actually because the BR is so relatively small at peerbet your expected return is relatively high since with 1 coin you will have a bigger percentage of the winnings (and losses.)

Incorrect, The size of the bankroll and your % of the bankroll is irrelevant, if your ฿1 investment is 0.1% of a bank that is turned over 100 times per year with an investors edge of 0.9% you expect the exact same return as if your ฿1 investment is 10% or whatever% of a bank that is turned over the same amount of times and has the same investors edge.

What you might be getting at is that you could assume a smaller bank will be turned over more often and that would increase your expected return.

You are joking, right?

It is something like this, right?

Yearly expected return = ( yearly wagered * edge = expected profit ) / virtual br *100%

Obviously bankroll is relevant since it's in the formula.....

Sure: if wagered is low, your return will be still bad despite BR. Sure: EV can be same even w/ bigger BR if wagered is bigger (eg: bank turnover is same.) But BR is relevant, just like wagered and edge are relevant.




Just because you like to use the term "bank turnover" and do something like this:

Yearly expected return = 365 / [(virtual br / (tracked wagered / tracked days)) = bankturnover] * edge

Doesn't change anything, since "virtual BR" is still in the formula and therefor relevant.

Since most sites allow investing on margin, bankroll shouldn't be used though but the "virtual bankroll" should be used. I tried to explain it before to OP but he seemed confused and I can't care too much to explain further. Without the "wagered" numbers it's unclear if the given numbers are correct but you should probably assume the "turnover / expected annual return" numbers are incorrect.

When I checked most sites did not provide a virtual bankroll figure, I am not confused by what it is or what figures should be used. Obviously the wagered numbers are used to calculate the turnover and the expected annual return. 

The question is if you calculate turnover with: bankroll/wagered or virtual bankroll/wagered. It should be the latter one and "bankroll" is completely irrelevant. Since you do list bankroll (and not virtual bankroll) it is still not clear which one you use. Calculating the virtual bankroll is btw dead easy, most times just max profit * 100 if edge is 1%.

Example:

Site has 246 BR, but 245 on 10x and only you are on 1x. So virtual BR is 2451 BTC. Your return is 1/2451 of winnings and losses. Let's say wagered is 13529 coins in a year and investors get full 1% edge. We get:

EV = (13529*0.01)/2451*100 = 5.52% per virtual coin invested.

So for the 1x guy his profit would be .0552 per coin. For the 10x guys that would be actually 0.552 per coin. This adds up: (0.552*245+0.0552*1) = 13529*0.01 = 135.29 BTC profit.

If we use just normal BR:

EV = (13529*0.01)/246*100 = 55% per coin. That is wrong. Because the profit is: 13529*0.01 = 135.29 and you as 1x investor get only 1/2451 of this = 135.29/2451 = 0.0552 - not close to the promised 55% per coin. I am assuming you are doing this which explains the high wrong numbers for BitDice.





It is even pretty clear you use just bankroll:

BitDice has a virtual BR of 10,010 BTC. You say they need 10 days for bank turnover which is: 10010/10 = 1001 a day. 1001*195 days that you are tracking = 195,195 wagered. BitDice is currently at 102,132 BTC wagered in all-time of it's existence so you are using "normal BR" - which is wrong as explained above.



If the "wagered" numbers would be there I could calculate the exact correct bank turnover and expected annual return, but now I cannot. I am still sure they are incorrect though. I hope you understand what I mean now. Correct me if I am wrong.

[fox19891989]

OP, have you tired 1btc investment on dadice house?

Dadice is the new and reliable dice site, we can invest their house there, house is big enough, about 600 BTC bankroll. You can earn profits there, just click my signature to play and invest!    I wanna see dadice will be listed on your site.

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

All figures are updated and I have made some improvements to the table

• Win88 no longer take house bank investment and did not have any way for me to check how my investment was performing, as such they are no longer a candidate for this table and I withdrew my investment witch was performing handsomely, returning over 50% in 7 months.

• We are now using virtual bank to calculate bank turnover and expected annual return where applicable (PRC and BitDice). This (and the lack of action at dicenow) brings the average expected annual return, not accounting for any scams or problems, to a very modest 7.09%. Less than you would make margin lending at Bitfinex, however if you did not invest in dicenow, it comes up to 21% and you could leverage up your kelly multiplier at PRC and BitDice to further increase your expected annual return.

• Rough fortnight on bitdice with our investment dropping from ฿1.058 to ฿1.046. House bank has fallen from ฿1239 to ฿1087 perhaps due to the lack luster investment results of 8% per year and people moving some coins to dadice.

• Dicenow house bank has plummeted from ฿988 to ฿599, probably for the same reasons as above. This would be good for the remaining investors except that there is almost no betting happening there...

OP, have you tired 1btc investment on dadice house?

Dadice is the new and reliable dice site, we can invest their house there, house is big enough, about 600 BTC bankroll. You can earn profits there, just click my signature to play and invest!    I wanna see dadice will be listed on your site.

Why would I think it has anything less than a 33% chance of exit scamming? I have not seen so much excitement about a new dice site since dice.ninja and dadice has exactly the same opportunity and incentive to exit scam as they did. How is it different? Could it not be literally the same people?

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

Speaking of bitcoin dice investment scams we have mad a page about exactly that and preventing it. Most of you in this thread know the risks but this is also for n00bs who are considering it for the first time.

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/bitcoin-dice-investment-scams/

Let me know if I got anything wrong or what you agree or disagree with

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I've got a bit of a hang over but this is a topic that interests me.
Thanks for this.
I will take a good look at this when I'm feelinh better

[casinobitcoin]

Thanks for the update. So what are your thoughts on DaDice?
-Peerbet team

[PocketRocketsCasino]

Thanks for the update. So what are your thoughts on DaDice?
-Peerbet team

Far too new for people to risk investing IMHO.

Also the hype in the forum seems to be mostly from paid accounts/shills and even multi accounts.

If you check their bets they already have 75 million in a very short time but the average bet is only a few satoshis.

They also have a weird bug that I reported soon after they opened. Watch the bets as they come in, after a few the bet id resets to an id you will have seen a few seconds before but the username, time etc changes.

They said they are next gen and revolutionary but from what I see they are not doing anything even different from Prime Dice, BitDice or any the other top sites. Which is fine but it makes the claims from all the shill accounts even more obvious.

I'd say wait another 6 months and then make a decision.

Disclaimer: I run the most trusted Bitcoin Dice site (most coins held by any site) but I have closed investment to new accounts so it's not like I am looking to stop people investing elsewhere so they can invest at Pocket Rockets Casino instead.

[pawel7777]

Thanks for the update. So what are your thoughts on DaDice?
-Peerbet team

OP doesn't seem to trust them too much:

...
Why would I think it has anything less than a 33% chance of exit scamming? I have not seen so much excitement about a new dice site since dice.ninja and dadice has exactly the same opportunity and incentive to exit scam as they did. How is it different? Could it not be literally the same people?

Can't blame him. They've created a lot of hype which brings back bad memories of dicebitco.in and diceninja. But that may just be their aggressive marketing style (and probably is just that). But it's always best to wait at least few months before investing anything significant in the new sites.

On the other note, PRC is listed for sale:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1043483.0

Although Dean is not desperate:

If no sale what happens to PRC?
If there are no serious offers or I feel that the buyer is not going to run PRC legit or to the standard that players expect then I will not sell and continue to work on improving and running PRC as normal.
I am not looking for a rushed sale. I am just looking to see if the right buyer is out there who could make the site better than I could by working alone.

Any takers?

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

All figures are updated party people  

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

Peerbet keeps roaring along with a big increase in profit and house bank.

Bitdice is down, has not been down for long and funds are still in the public cold storage address so no reason to worry about exit scam yet but still a bad user experience.

I might pull out of Dicenow as no one is betting there which gives me all the negatives of being in a house bank, like not being able to use those funds and counterparty risk but none of the advantages like return on investment. What do yall reckon?

Thanks for the update. So what are your thoughts on DaDice?
-Peerbet team

Seems like just another dice site to me. Not sure what they think the mean by "next generation"

[casinobitcoin]

Seems like just another dice site to me. Not sure what they think the mean by "next generation"

DaDice comes with many next generation features:

• Quick-Withdrawal :: Don't waste your time withdrawing again. Allow a 3rd party to do it for you instantly with a GET request (appears to be temporarily disabled)
• Privacy Desensitization :: Don't want the world to know who you are, and what you're up to? No problems, DaDice will help desensitize you to that risk. First with a broadcast of everyones ip addresses, then a service to lookup of everyones registered names and emails, and a constantly reused single hotwallet address with public notes on all your withdrawals
• House heating ::  DOM updates never felt so warm!
• Learn skepticism :: With half the forum being paid pennies to shill, you'll learn a healthy dose of skeptism
• Zero proof of bankroll :: blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed

Or you could stick with "last" generation casinos that a track record of never losing player funds, or having the balls to use their real name as they have no intention of exit scamming.



Quick! If you wear a dadice signature, here's your chance to make an easy 13 pence by replying with an easy shill!

Hah! Funny post. We'll see what happens.

[casinobitcoin]

All figures are updated party people 

http://bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

Peerbet keeps roaring along with a big increase in profit and house bank.

Bitdice is down, has not been down for long and funds are still in the public cold storage address so no reason to worry about exit scam yet but still a bad user experience.

I might pull out of Dicenow as no one is betting there which gives me all the negatives of being in a house bank, like not being able to use those funds and counterparty risk but none of the advantages like return on investment. What do yall reckon?

Thanks for the update. So what are your thoughts on DaDice?
-Peerbet team

Seems like just another dice site to me. Not sure what they think the mean by "next generation"

Go Peerbet and Thanks for your support all!

Also I would leave all sites you can on, at least with a virtual investment. Just for comparison.

[pawel7777]

I might pull out of Dicenow as no one is betting there which gives me all the negatives of being in a house bank, like not being able to use those funds and counterparty risk but none of the advantages like return on investment. What do yall reckon?

Just pull it out. It's supposed to be an investment, but if there's no activity - it's not an investment, it's just deposit.

What are your thoughts on adding SafeDice instead (if you're familiar with them at all)? They've been around for some time and growing nice and steady (with no hype, campaigns etc) with whales popping in from time to time (attracted by 0.5% HE variable).

[Bitcoin Betting Guide]

All fiigures are updated party people http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

All sites profit rose slightly excep peerbet which dropped for the first time in a long time.

All sites house bank rose excep dice now.

Oh remember when Ice Dice ripped me and all the investors of in an exit scam? At the time I emailed admin asking for the BTC1.007 investment back and they finally got back to me

David Lee <icedicedavid@gmx.com>
Hi, we cannot give you your money back unless you send us 1.007 BTC first.
1ADMcfy99ryZfpqLaDkoBU37t1fPhBES2n
thank you, and nice try scamming me

 

[marioantonini]

Thanks for your word, i need a good dice or betting site with investor program. you can add a minimum btc for invest in every site?

[pawel7777]

Oh remember when Ice Dice ripped me and all the investors of in an exit scam? At the time I emailed admin asking for the BTC1.007 investment back and they finally got back to me

David Lee <icedicedavid@gmx.com>
Hi, we cannot give you your money back unless you send us 1.007 BTC first.
1ADMcfy99ryZfpqLaDkoBU37t1fPhBES2n
thank you, and nice try scamming me

 

Wow, it took him 6 months to came up with this?

...you can add a minimum btc for invest in every site?

It's best to check for yourself, min investments (if any) can change pretty often, so OP doesn't know much more than you do.

I know PRC have increased their min investment limit to BTC0.1 some time ago and I'm not even sure whether new accounts are allowed to invest.

I reckon other sites have no minimum or very low (peerbet: 0.0001).