My Ideal In-Store Bitcoin Shopping Experience

[the joint]

I walk into a store with BTC.  Let's say this BTC is secure on a little device.  Imagining a Trezor works nicely for the sake of demonstration.

I see an item I want on the shelf.  On the item is a QR code, magnetic strip, or something similar corresponding to a unique public BTC address; also on the device is a tiny green LED or some other change indicator.  When I hold my BTC device up to the code/strip, payment for the item is automatically and securely deducted from my device.  The green LED lights up, I walk out the door with it, bypassing an imaginary checkout line with imaginary cashiers, and instead simply wave my green LED-lit item in front of a security attendant as I walk out the store.

What's the closest we have to this experience now?

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[chennan]

What a good scenario! If you keep scanning the QR code and paying bitcoin, hopefully the battery is enough to support! LOL

[Aswan]

I remember some British company having created something like that. A little thing showing a QR code which is attached to an item. You scan, pay, and leave the shop. You'll probably have to give back the QR showing gadget because as I imagine it's not that cheap.

If would be even better if the gadget was able to transmit transaction your give it. That way you do not have to carry a device with online capability but rather one a secure offlien gadget that creates transactions offline and gived them to the payment gadget in order to get broadcastet. How does it know which outputs to take? It can be fed SPV data via optical synchronization (Colored Video QR-Codes) from a phone that has a watch only copy of the same deterministic wallet. Something I have thought about for a long time

[the joint]

I remember some British company having created something like that. A little thing showing a QR code which is attached to an item. You scan, pay, and leave the shop. You'll probably have to give back the QR showing gadget because as I imagine it's not that cheap.

If would be even better if the gadget was able to transmit transaction your give it. That way you do not have to carry a device with online capability but rather one a secure offlien gadget that creates transactions offline and gived them to the payment gadget in order to get broadcastet. How does it know which outputs to take? It can be fed SPV data via optical synchronization (Colored Video QR-Codes) from a phone that has a watch only copy of the same deterministic wallet. Something I have thought about for a long time

Despite mass-producing inexpensive change-indicators like the green LED example, don't you think the complete removal of cashiers, checkout lines, and associated in-store technology would easily offset the production costs of the BTC security features?

As far as the technical and coding aspect goes, I'm simply assuming it's not too difficult.

By way, since this idea as a whole really isn't very complicated, I'll loosely toss out the idea that I'd be (potentially) interested in working with someone on this to bring to fruition a working concept model, though my start up experience is limited.

[EnFinlay]

Two things:

Wouldn't every single item in the store need to be connected to the internet to verify the transaction?  I know internet of things is getting popular, but that would be one hell of a cost.  The follow-up thought I have is well, instead of attaching the internet to the device, put it in a container that only opens once the transaction goes through.  And then I realize that I've brainstormed up a vending machine.  So my question is: how come vending machines aren't used for more items?  The interaction is essentially the same to what you're describing: you walk in, interact with a thing, receive product, and walk off.

Second thing: you wouldn't be able to get rid of cash registers until the vast majority of customers were using bitcoin.  Yes, the cost of the system might be offset by not needing cashiers/cash registers, but it wouldn't offset the cost of losing 95% (on the low end) of your customers.

tl;dr Many negative things.  Sorry

[the joint]

Two things:

Wouldn't every single item in the store need to be connected to the internet to verify the transaction?  I know internet of things is getting popular, but that would be one hell of a cost.  The follow-up thought I have is well, instead of attaching the internet to the device, put it in a container that only opens once the transaction goes through.  And then I realize that I've brainstormed up a vending machine.  So my question is: how come vending machines aren't used for more items?  The interaction is essentially the same to what you're describing: you walk in, interact with a thing, receive product, and walk off.

Second thing: you wouldn't be able to get rid of cash registers until the vast majority of customers were using bitcoin.  Yes, the cost of the system might be offset by not needing cashiers/cash registers, but it wouldn't offset the cost of losing 95% (on the low end) of your customers.

tl;dr Many negative things.  Sorry

For a couple pennies I would imagine something like a small radio chip could communicate with the change indicator.  When you send BTC to a QR code or something like it, it's the device you're using that's communicating with the network.  All that needs to happen with the product is for something to signal to it that it's corresponding address has been sufficiently funded.  The extra cost I believe could be covered by money saved by requiring fewer in-store employees, and I wouldn't expect it to be too much different than current in-store security tags.  Between salaries, benefits, and the tech, that's a lot of money you can reroute to something else.

I disagree vending machines are the same.   Walking through the store and being able to pick up or look at the item is important.  Online purchasing makes more sense for most people in many ways for many items, but people still go to the store to buy stuff.   And need I mention the clothing industry, music industry, etc.?

I do agree that few (if any) stores could be currently successful in any location operating under a crypto-only business model.  But this really is just one of many chicken-and-egg problems Bitcoin faces in general.  It isn't unreasonable or too early to conceptualize something like this, in my opinion.

[BitCoinDream]

I walk into a store with BTC.  Let's say this BTC is secure on a little device.  Imagining a Trezor works nicely for the sake of demonstration.

I see an item I want on the shelf.  On the item is a QR code, magnetic strip, or something similar corresponding to a unique public BTC address; also on the device is a tiny green LED or some other change indicator.  When I hold my BTC device up to the code/strip, payment for the item is automatically and securely deducted from my device.  The green LED lights up, I walk out the door with it, bypassing an imaginary checkout line with imaginary cashiers, and instead simply wave my green LED-lit item in front of a security attendant as I walk out the store.

What's the closest we have to this experience now?

In the ideal scenario, u have not considered that it will take at least 10 minutes for a block to accept your transaction. If your Tx is accepted without any confirmation and the item costs more than 1 BTC, then there is a BIG chance of double spend.

[the joint]

I walk into a store with BTC.  Let's say this BTC is secure on a little device.  Imagining a Trezor works nicely for the sake of demonstration.

I see an item I want on the shelf.  On the item is a QR code, magnetic strip, or something similar corresponding to a unique public BTC address; also on the device is a tiny green LED or some other change indicator.  When I hold my BTC device up to the code/strip, payment for the item is automatically and securely deducted from my device.  The green LED lights up, I walk out the door with it, bypassing an imaginary checkout line with imaginary cashiers, and instead simply wave my green LED-lit item in front of a security attendant as I walk out the store.

What's the closest we have to this experience now?

In the ideal scenario, u have not considered that it will take at least 10 minutes for a block to accept your transaction. If your Tx is accepted without any confirmation and the item costs more than 1 BTC, then there is a BIG chance of double spend.

I did consider it, I just didn't consider it relevant because I figure that some crypto or another *will* be viable for in-store purchase, so I'm focusing on the business end, not the currency end.

[the joint]

Two things:

Wouldn't every single item in the store need to be connected to the internet to verify the transaction?  I know internet of things is getting popular, but that would be one hell of a cost.  The follow-up thought I have is well, instead of attaching the internet to the device, put it in a container that only opens once the transaction goes through.  And then I realize that I've brainstormed up a vending machine.  So my question is: how come vending machines aren't used for more items?  The interaction is essentially the same to what you're describing: you walk in, interact with a thing, receive product, and walk off.

Second thing: you wouldn't be able to get rid of cash registers until the vast majority of customers were using bitcoin.  Yes, the cost of the system might be offset by not needing cashiers/cash registers, but it wouldn't offset the cost of losing 95% (on the low end) of your customers.

tl;dr Many negative things.  Sorry

I'd also like to point out that part of why I structured the OP as I did was to provide my honest feedback as a consumer about what I would like my in-store experience to be.  I like to get in, not be bothered or held up by anything, get what I need, and get out.  So, saying "many negative things" is irrelevant.  It's more a comment about what's seemingly inconvenient about the tech, not about the actual experience (which is what matters to people).  Of course, maybe most other people prefer some different type of in-store experience, but no tech will ever succeed if it doesn't do what it should be doing, which is making life easier for people in ways that they want it to be.

[EnFinlay]

Ooh, brainstorm.  Why bother scanning everything individually?  Give every product an RFID tag, shop by putting things directly into your bag and then have "scan out" stations.  These stations would be just putting all your stuff down, it checking what RFIDs were in the scanning area and you tapping your phone for the crypto payment.  On exit you'd pass through detectors like most stores have now that would detect RFIDs that haven't been paid for.

Also, the short lag between scanning, tapping, and blockchain verification would be perfect for completing a small in-store survey at the scan station.

[BTCmoons]

I like your idea, however I think it would probably be more cost efficient to use a QR code at the checkout register. I would think that the cost associated with purchasing enough "green lights" that are connected to a secure wifi (otherwise someone could fake a TX to the devices) to cover the max amount of inventory that a store will ever have. You would still need to employ someone to take the "green light" off of each product as someone is leaving the store and to program the "green light" when it is placed on a product. I think it would be easier to simply ring up items as they are today and a QR code would be displayed at the checkout and the customer would scan it and send the appropriate amount of bitcoin.

Another issue with paying for each item individually is that you would pay a lot more in TX fees and you would have the issue of having a lot of 0/unconfirmed TXs when paying for everything. 

[QuestionAuthority]

Check this out.

http://nocamels.com/2011/11/no-more-cashiers-in-supermarkets-scan-all-items-with-your-phone/

[mkc]

What OP describe can be done with a smart phone. I think we need something better.

[Elwar]

When my wife had a clothing store I tried to set something like this up. I created QR codes on stickers that I put on the price tags of the clothes. Each QR code took you to a BitPay link with the price and a place to pay with BTC.

After that experiment I realized that it would be too much hassle to set up a distinct sticker and QR code for each item and women's clothing was not the best place for early adoption of such a thing, especially in 2011 when hardly anyone had heard of Bitcoin.

[Aswan]

Despite mass-producing inexpensive change-indicators like the green LED example, don't you think the complete removal of cashiers, checkout lines, and associated in-store technology would easily offset the production costs of the BTC security features?

Probably, but thats a pretty long shot since adoption takes time and we don't know what kind of technology is going to compete with bitcoin in the near future.

As far as the technical and coding aspect goes, I'm simply assuming it's not too difficult.

Indeed, and thats the beauty of bitcoin. It wouldn't be that hard getting it to work

By way, since this idea as a whole really isn't very complicated, I'll loosely toss out the idea that I'd be (potentially) interested in working with someone on this to bring to fruition a working concept model, though my start up experience is limited.

Are you simply talking about the attached QR codes on the items in shops or about a whole payment/checkout system including the POS terminal and the payment devices?

[Window2Wall]

When my wife had a clothing store I tried to set something like this up. I created QR codes on stickers that I put on the price tags of the clothes. Each QR code took you to a BitPay link with the price and a place to pay with BTC.

After that experiment I realized that it would be too much hassle to set up a distinct sticker and QR code for each item and women's clothing was not the best place for early adoption of such a thing, especially in 2011 when hardly anyone had heard of Bitcoin.

This is a good example as to why this specific setup would not work. The setup as described in the OP would really not save anything on labor costs as stores would still need to employ people to make sure everything has been paid for and that there is nothing that would be a risk to the company (for example a double spend attack).

One risk that has not been mentioned is that someone could potentially send a TX that is not likely to be confirmed by the miners (for example a very large transaction with no fee) and then use inputs from that TX to fund all the TXs that pay for each of the goods. Since the store would normally be relying on a number of 0/unconfirmed TXs this original TX would likely not be noticed/unacceptable. On the other hand if someone were to pay for everything at once then the store would only need to look at one TX to judge the risk as to if it is likely the TX is safe to accept with 0/unconfirmed status.

[QuestionAuthority]

Why not just integrate into already existing systems?

For example:

A local supermarket allows you to shop with a barcode scanner. You scan each item as you place it in your cart. When you are finished, you go up to the automated check out and pay. There is one security guard who will randomly audit customers to make certain people are scanning every item in their cart.

It seems to me that adding a method for Bitcoin payment to this system would be simple. You could even avoid the dreaded worry over 0 confirmation transactions by having a pre-paid account. You enter the supermarket, log into the system, take your scanner and shop. When you are finished, your total is calculated and subtracted from the pre-paid account which has already been funded with bitcoins.

The system I posted is even better than that because it can eliminate shoplifting too. Any payment method can be incorporated into it easily.

[BittBurger]

Want to get rich?   Come up with a way to direct customers straight to a product on your shelf.

This is the elephant in the room.

How many times have you wandered aisles looking for something?   Every single time you go to the store?

Last week I wasted a half hour walking through Walmart trying to find an item.

Ultimately I had to go to the front, find the store manager, and only because she had memorized every single thing in that store, was she able to take me right to the product.

The entire time I was repeating to myself "Never again.  Just shop online.  There's a Search Box".

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This is something that can be done today.  And not surprisingly, its the first step towards automated checkouts as well.  Once you've got all your products indexed and locatable, they're already in a "system" and can easily be scanned and paid for.

-B-

[Window2Wall]

Why not just integrate into already existing systems?

For example:

A local supermarket allows you to shop with a barcode scanner. You scan each item as you place it in your cart. When you are finished, you go up to the automated check out and pay. There is one security guard who will randomly audit customers to make certain people are scanning every item in their cart.

It seems to me that adding a method for Bitcoin payment to this system would be simple. You could even avoid the dreaded worry over 0 confirmation transactions by having a pre-paid account. You enter the supermarket, log into the system, take your scanner and shop. When you are finished, your total is calculated and subtracted from the pre-paid account which has already been funded with bitcoins.

I would think that scanners would be pretty expensive, especially considering that some stores will sometimes have hundreds of customers in their store. I don't see why you couldn't simply have customers put their items in their shopping cart and then have them use a self checkout as many grocery stores have now.

[the joint]

Ooh, brainstorm.  Why bother scanning everything individually?  Give every product an RFID tag, shop by putting things directly into your bag and then have "scan out" stations.  These stations would be just putting all your stuff down, it checking what RFIDs were in the scanning area and you tapping your phone for the crypto payment.  On exit you'd pass through detectors like most stores have now that would detect RFIDs that haven't been paid for.

Also, the short lag between scanning, tapping, and blockchain verification would be perfect for completing a small in-store survey at the scan station.

Yes, something like this would be fine as long as you don't have to spend any longer than a few seconds in the scanning area.  I'm only interested in an in-store model that bypasses anything similar to waiting in line.  I would even be turned off if I had to walk out of my way whatsoever to get to the scanning area; if it's on the way out the door, that's fine.