Idea: Diablo III Bitcoin Auction House

[ElectricMucus]

So Diablo III is up and running...
...and I found my first half decent item I don't have immediate use for. I just checked the gold auction house there are 2 items which come close.
So I was about to make an auction for with a starting price similar to those.

And guess what they charge a fee of 15%. Now that's a convenient way for them to decrease the inflation of ingame gold.
Then I realized it is not that my item is so awesome it is that the auction house isn't really popular amoung the players.
I just checked Ogrr too. Not really convenient there are no interesting offers either there (at least on the Europe realm)
And before I do that I can just trade on diablo.incgamers.net for other items or ingame gold.

Using bitcoins just because isn't really an argument to use it. One thing that the ingame auction house is missing is any information on the popularity of the item, how many people already did bid there and it is impossible to tell if the item was bid at at all or if it is still at starting price.

I'm not saying that this will be the killer app for bitcoin but it is one of those things I would really want to use it on, in a consistent way. Very soon Blizzard will enable some api (guess what it's json, what we already know and love) to interface external applications in the game. We have to wait for that to come out to see what is actually possible but we already can start the planning phase for such a project.

If somebody want to team up and do it lets do some brainstorming in this thread.
As of recent issues with security issues with bitcoin services I would suggest doing this on a dedicated server or at least something where it is unlikely a break-in would occur like google app engine.

*changed topic to better represent the idea*

[Fizzgig]

Bitcoin is useful for transferring in-game gold to cash. The only problem is that Bitcoin isn't implemented into the game, and paypal will be. That means that everyone will use paypal and give up another few percent on their money (After blizzard takes a governmental-sized helping of 15%). If both Bitcoin and paypal were offered then Bitcoin would triumph.

I like your market stats website idea. I wonder what Blizzard has in store with their api?

[Fuzzy]

I think this is one of the greatest ideas for BitCoin ever (besides my one  ), but you should really change the title to say "Diablo III Bitcoin Auction House" or something, so people know to click on it 

I think you'll find MANY of the item farmers would jump on the chance to save 15% of their profits, all the while bypassing the Blizzard-->Paypal-->Credit-Card-institution fees and hassles.

Someone's gonna make a killing on this.

[ElectricMucus]

I think this is one of the greatest ideas for BitCoin ever (besides my one  ), but you should really change the title to say "Diablo III Bitcoin Auction House" or something, so people know to click on it 

Alright, I did just that now.

I think you'll find MANY of the item farmers would jump on the chance to save 15% of their profits, all the while bypassing the Blizzard-->Paypal-->Credit-Card-institution fees and hassles.

Someone's gonna make a killing on this.

I don't think the fees in the RMAH are as high as in the gold auction house. But you are right, with all fees added together it will come close.
Mind you though that people often do not realize that they are paying so much to third partys it's all conveniently split amongst sellers+buyers.
If transparency were a major issue for most people the whole world would probably use bitcoin.

I have a few ideas how to do this even if the api turns out to be not much help. But it is more or less confirmed to display statistics on characters and equipment as a json file.

more later

[Fuzzy]

Granted it may take a while to gain traction and take off, but given proper support, ease of use, and fluidity, I believe people will be drawn to it, especially if you have advanced item search features and a strong community. You can also just spend your BTC on items you DO need, or spend them elsewhere on other real life goods.

Converting to fiat will also be much cheaper than the fees bliz tacks on.

EDIT: I bet you 21 million BitCoins the D3 eula has a clause against using 3rd party auction houses 

[kjlimo]

A couple thoughts:

1) We are discounting the fact that the EULA probably doesn't allow it, so that brings the risk of losing your account.

2) We are discounting the fact that using Diablo 3's RMAH reduces risk of getting scammed.  Is that worth 15%?  Maybe?

3) So I think any system of this nature will naturally shine by having a feedback system (just like ebay) which will track the number of transactions as well as the total value of transactions.

But yet, someone can make some decent money implementing this:

Or you can go use OGRR (see link in signature).

They just need to get the feedback system going.  Their theory is that if you only sell items, then you'll grow a large balance on their website; however, I think you'll need to add # of transactions and total value of transactions buying & selling, b/c you can be on both end of the transaction to build credibility.

[Fuzzy]

At the end of the day, this is just an idea that goes nowhere until someone with the proper skills puts in the time and effort to make it a reality.

If I were a web developer and programmer, I'd do it myself 

[Matthew N. Wright]

At the end of the day, this is just an idea that goes nowhere until someone with the proper skills puts in the time and effort to make it a reality.

If I were a web developer and programmer, I'd do it myself 

No you wouldn't. You'd sit there with your mounds of programming and web developing skills and think about the effort and energy needed to work on it versus the absolute lack of guarantee of any reward along with the fallacy of "saving 15%" that would be swallowed up by wire and exchange fees getting money in and out of Bitcoin and you'd say "Fuck that, I'm gonna make a Pirate pass-through site or Bitcoinica2".

[Fuzzy]

At the end of the day, this is just an idea that goes nowhere until someone with the proper skills puts in the time and effort to make it a reality.

If I were a web developer and programmer, I'd do it myself  

No you wouldn't. You'd sit there with your mounds of programming and web developing skills and think about the effort and energy needed to work on it versus the absolute lack of guarantee of any reward along with the fallacy of "saving 15%" that would be swallowed up by wire and exchange fees getting money in and out of Bitcoin and you'd say "Fuck that, I'm gonna make a Pirate pass-through site or Bitcoinica2".

Well, I can't prove that I would, but I believe in the idea that its a perfect fit for bitcoin, and I'm really interested in the Real-Money-Auction-House. If anything it would be an exercise and a hobby project.

I would definitely we willing contribute my time and skills to collaborate on it if someone in web programming were to willing, and if we could somehow work around the eula  

[Matthew N. Wright]

If anything it would be an exercise and a hobby project.

You speak the truth. Sadly, this is true for most businesses/projects in Bitcoin 

[ElectricMucus]

Here are some of my Ideas of how it could be done:

If there is an option to display items stats via the api this could be used to verify a transaction. So it could be possible to sell a specific item without the hassle of typing in it's stats by hand and it is certain that the item is in fact in the possession of the seller and later the buyer.
The site could act as a trusted party receiving both the payment and the fee plus some collateral. There could be some reward system which reduces the fees after each successful transaction.

If that is not possible we could pay highly reputable members to act as trusted party receiving both the item and the payment. That should also be fully EULA proof
If all fails we could still use a standard feedback system which isn't entirely fraud proof but hey, it works for everybody else!

I would also suggest not implementing the ebay style timed auctions but a conventional strike system where the seller can decide when to close the auction or let the system do it automatically according to criteria. This could be time, number of bids, amount, the slope of bid increments or even some combination.

If anything it would be an exercise and a hobby project.

You speak the truth. Sadly, this is true for most businesses/projects in Bitcoin  

We are mostly involved in niche markets which are inherently tied to hobbyist projects. That isn't necessarily bad.

At the end of the day, this is just an idea that goes nowhere until someone with the proper skills puts in the time and effort to make it a reality.

If I were a web developer and programmer, I'd do it myself  

Well the only languages I am somewhat fluid in is C, Pascal and Basic, from school and some toying around with applied math.
I would be willing to learn myself a more suited language if that counts, I find go very interesting but haven't gotten around to get a working dev environment with it.

[Fuzzy]

Bitcoin in itself is an experiment, which only started 3.5 years ago, so the fact that most of the sites and businesses around it aren't full fledged corporate projects is understandable.

The internet started as hobby project too, it was just a matter of finding good uses for it. The same goes for bitcoin.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Bitcoin in itself is an experiment, which only started 3.5 years ago, so the fact that most of the sites and businesses around it aren't full fledged corporate projects is understandable.

The internet started as hobby project too, it was just a matter of finding good uses for it. The same goes for bitcoin.

The same does not yet go for Bitcoin, as the difference so far is that large companies become larger, and small companies became large through the internet. That has not happened much in Bitcoin yet.

[Fuzzy]

Bitcoin in itself is an experiment, which only started 3.5 years ago, so the fact that most of the sites and businesses around it aren't full fledged corporate projects is understandable.

The internet started as hobby project too, it was just a matter of finding good uses for it. The same goes for bitcoin.

The same does not yet go for Bitcoin, as the difference so far is that large companies become larger, and small companies became large through the internet. That has not happened much in Bitcoin yet.

Right now Bitcoin is serving a small niche market of hobbyists, but it is gaining traction every day. The network grows larger, and more people are getting involved.
It grows very similarly to most other internet projects, like a kindling in a camp fire. Some fizzle out, while others begin to catch, and at a certain point become too large to stop.

Bitcoin needs to reach that catching point, and tying it to something like D3, an internationally acclaimed online game, could be the very easily be the push it needs.

If we assume that most D3 players are computer savvy, and are interested in trading their stuff for real money, I think this BTC Auction House fits the niche market perfectly while letting them take part in something revolutionary, "This is not your grandparents' currency".

And once the kids start using them, then all hell is going to break loose.

[acoindr]

Bitcoin in itself is an experiment, which only started 3.5 years ago, so the fact that most of the sites and businesses around it aren't full fledged corporate projects is understandable.

The internet started as hobby project too, it was just a matter of finding good uses for it. The same goes for bitcoin.

The same does not yet go for Bitcoin, as the difference so far is that large companies become larger, and small companies became large through the internet. That has not happened much in Bitcoin yet.

Mt.Gox is not a company that has grown larger through Bitcoin?

And besides Mt.Gox, name a Bitcoin company that is more than 2 years old. It took longer than two years for three of the Internet's juggernauts to really grow and be profitable: Google, Yahoo, and Amazon I know just off the top of my head.

Amazon was incorporated in 1994, in the state of Washington. In July 1995, the company began service and sold its first book on Amazon.com — Douglas Hofstadter's Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies: Computer Models of the Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought.[11] In 1996, it was reincorporated in Delaware.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Mt.Gox is not a company that has grown larger through Bitcoin?

I thought about mentioning MtGox, but there are several reasons I didn't that I don't want to start  flame war about here. Suffice to say, all companies grow larger through Bitcoin but some grow artificially and remain unhealthy.

[acoindr]

Mt.Gox is not a company that has grown larger through Bitcoin?

I thought about mentioning MtGox, but there are several reasons I didn't that I don't want to start  flame war about here. Suffice to say, all companies grow larger through Bitcoin but some grow artificially and remain unhealthy.

I disagree. Bitcoin so far represents a free market. There is nothing artificial about that.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Mt.Gox is not a company that has grown larger through Bitcoin?

I thought about mentioning MtGox, but there are several reasons I didn't that I don't want to start  flame war about here. Suffice to say, all companies grow larger through Bitcoin but some grow artificially and remain unhealthy.

I disagree. Bitcoin so far represents a free market. There is nothing artificial about that.

I think free markets are only free when the parties involved in them understand that it's free. Right now a good majority are still clinging to their old habits of centralization, insurance, backing, reversals, trusting strangers, etc.

[acoindr]

Mt.Gox is not a company that has grown larger through Bitcoin?

I thought about mentioning MtGox, but there are several reasons I didn't that I don't want to start  flame war about here. Suffice to say, all companies grow larger through Bitcoin but some grow artificially and remain unhealthy.

I disagree. Bitcoin so far represents a free market. There is nothing artificial about that.

I think free markets are only free when the parties involved in them understand that it's free. Right now a good majority are still clinging to their old habits of centralization, insurance, backing, reversals, trusting strangers, etc.

The parties involved are only participants. It's the market controls or lack thereof that determine whether or not the market is free. And throughout history people have struggled with the issue of appropriately placing trust.

[Fuzzy]

Here is a good article on the auction house

It looks like it is going to be their bread and butter after the initial sale of the boxed game and is there to provide a steady stream of revenue and pay for server maintenance.

The WHOLE reason they're putting up with the "Always online single player" backlash is so even the single players can access the auction house, as this would be prone to hacking if single player data was kept client side.

Also, given how fierce Activision's legal team is, you can bet they'll fight tooth and nail to take something like a Bitcoin Auction House down, should it ever begin to eat into their bottom line.