The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery

[boumalo]

if it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Yes, congratulations. You've proven white Europeans are the master race. /sarcasm

No I was stating a history fact, why is this history fact annoying you so much?

White Europeans have their problems but when we are talking about slavery, they are the first ones who abolish it when everyone was having slaves

What you stated was an opinion. "If it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big." That's your exact quote. Note that there is no historical fact there, it is 100% pure opinion. It's your opinion I'm taking issue with, because the underlying tone of your opinion is racist. You can tell it's racist by the fact that you're obsessed with proving whites, as a race, deserve more credit than other races (in your words: Middle Easterners, Asians, and especially Africans) on slavery. Your opinion is implying whites are better because they did something better than the other races you mentioned.

That's what is annoying me so much.

Am stating a history fact that I never really thought of before watching Molyneux's video; it is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery, if anything I was saying a bit provocatively we should praise them

Saying something positive about white black asian.. is racist? It is utterly stupid
Maybe saying something negative could be seen as racist but you need to think about it a bit more! How saying something positive about Europeans that is an historical fact is racist?

Think your underlying tone of opinion is racist : talking about White privilege is racist and saying the black community still suffer from the slavery that occured before is racist because it is condescendant, put down the community, and is the consequence of thinking they are inferior which is utterly racist; the fact is they suffered from government intervention and hands outs more than any other community in the states and that is why they perform worse

What is the fact? I still don't see it. You said you think white europeans should be thanked for ending slavery and other races should have more blame. Those are opinions. They are still not historical facts. "It is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery"  <--- Your exact words. It is an opinion.

Compliments are not racist. The way you generalize and distinguish people based on race is what is racist.

I've said nothing about white privilege. I don't know what you're carrying on about, but you're clearly confusing me with another poster.

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

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[TECSHARE]

if it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Yes, congratulations. You've proven white Europeans are the master race. /sarcasm

No I was stating a history fact, why is this history fact annoying you so much?

White Europeans have their problems but when we are talking about slavery, they are the first ones who abolish it when everyone was having slaves

What you stated was an opinion. "If it wasn't for Europe there would probably still be slaves in most countries so there deserve less blame than the middle easterners, less blame than the Asians or Americans and especially less blame than the Africans where slavery is still big." That's your exact quote. Note that there is no historical fact there, it is 100% pure opinion. It's your opinion I'm taking issue with, because the underlying tone of your opinion is racist. You can tell it's racist by the fact that you're obsessed with proving whites, as a race, deserve more credit than other races (in your words: Middle Easterners, Asians, and especially Africans) on slavery. Your opinion is implying whites are better because they did something better than the other races you mentioned.

That's what is annoying me so much.

Am stating a history fact that I never really thought of before watching Molyneux's video; it is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery, if anything I was saying a bit provocatively we should praise them

Saying something positive about white black asian.. is racist? It is utterly stupid
Maybe saying something negative could be seen as racist but you need to think about it a bit more! How saying something positive about Europeans that is an historical fact is racist?

Think your underlying tone of opinion is racist : talking about White privilege is racist and saying the black community still suffer from the slavery that occured before is racist because it is condescendant, put down the community, and is the consequence of thinking they are inferior which is utterly racist; the fact is they suffered from government intervention and hands outs more than any other community in the states and that is why they perform worse

What is the fact? I still don't see it. You said you think white europeans should be thanked for ending slavery and other races should have more blame. Those are opinions. They are still not historical facts. "It is stupid to shame Europeans or White Americans for slavery"  <--- Your exact words. It is an opinion.

Compliments are not racist. The way you generalize and distinguish people based on race is what is racist.

I've said nothing about white privilege. I don't know what you're carrying on about, but you're clearly confusing me with another poster.

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

You still don't get it. For the amount of flack Europeans give the US about slavery, this is a little annoyingly arrogant. Who do you think sold the US all its slaves? The EUROPEANS! Europe built its empire on the backs of slaves. Just because it was "the first" to support abolition doesn't mean the entirety of Europe deserves "less blame". Furthermore there is evidence to suggest that there was a large economic motive for Europe to use its new found policy of abolition to financially extort the US population into a civil war that would result in debt that was crippling to US sovereignty. So Europe's motives were not exactly 100% pure.

[My Name Was Taken]

So now because I talked with you first, you now get to decide with whom I talk to and which topics I am addressing now?

Haha, jesus h. christ, no. My point is OP posted something and I responded to him. Then you quoted me, directly responding to what I said, and started talking about something neither of us were talking about. I took exception to it because it didn't address what I said, but implied I was down with slavery.

As for us both saying the same thing, I've already quoted it. How many times do I have to quote it, and what good does it do since I've already quoted it and you ignored it?

Here it is again, just for the devil of it, my first post in this thread:

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

This was in response to the OP, which was "The White European should be praised for their actions concerning slavery" (the title of this thread).


And just for reference, here's the part where you and I expressed the exact same sentiment (again):

While I agree Europe probably didn't invent race slavery, they most certainly did house the worlds LARGEST raced based slave trade corporations, and made the most profit from the trade. As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act.

So you're advancing the idea that because some people who used to own slaves eventually voted to abolish it, those people should be commended even though they first failed to reject slavery as evil when they had the first opportunity, thereby tolerating and partaking in an institution that destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives?

I'm not buying it.

We're saying the same thing. Can't we just agree to agree?

No, because we aren't saying the same thing...
1. Not all abolitionists were slave holders
2. Most slave holders that later became abolitionists were born into the system (like most of us today)
3. The people who abolished slavery were not the same individuals that implemented the system

You seem to be arguing that most former slave holders one day decided slavery is wrong, but because they once thought it was ok they deserve condemnation. It is almost as if you are treating the entire nation as if they were one slave holding individual. Some people deserve praise, others do not. Your analysis of the situation is incomplete.

No, that's not MY argument for christ sake. That's OPs argument, based on the way he generally lumped the people who abolished slavery in with the people who started it by only identifying them based on their race. OP's sole qualifier is "white Europeans." It makes no sense to praise "white Europeans" for ending slavery unless you're trying to counter the argument that "white Europeans" have something to be ashamed of re: slavery. If you're trying to give credit to the specific generation that ended slavery, you would not lazily over generalize like that. The fact that you do is evidence you're trying to say that later generations of "white Europeans" made up for the earlier generations of "white Europeans." That's the argument I'm taking issue with.

I'm not saying the people who ended slavery don't deserve credit. I'm saying if you're sole qualifier for identification is based on a general race you cannot exclude their entire history. You're ascribing to me an argument I am not making, by virtue of my single response to OP. On top of that, you said the same thing I did later: "As far as them deserving less blame because they were some of the early pioneers of abolition of slavery is not exactly valid either. A bad act doesn't erase a good act just as good doesn't erase a bad act." Either my first response you took issue with and this response with you is correct, or you're arguing against your own point as well as mine. It cannot hold that my first response is wrong, but when you said it three days later it was correct.

[My Name Was Taken]

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

Let me help you with the difference between fact and opinion.

We agree compliments are not racist and I agree generalising too much about a group could be racist but am not doing that, Europeans were the first ones to abolish slavery and pushed for its abolition in most countries thus should not be blamed more than any other culture in regards to slavery when they clearly are; if anything they should be blamed way less and praised for the actions they took that led to less slavery in the world; people that blame the Europeans for slavery have to be considered in favor of slavery, hope you are not

"Facts" are in bold, opinions are underlined. This was the first response where you attempted to state a "fact." The word "facts" is in quotations because there is no source, and it's so vague that it may be true. For example, "the first ones" means what? People in the world? People in the developed world? People in Europe? The loose way your "fact" is presented raises questions as to its validity, but even taking it on face value, it remains that the vast majority of what you're posting is still opinion.

[ObscureBean]

What's really sad is that humans have not learned anything from slavery. They are so self-important, self-centered and selfish that they missed this window of opportunity to evolve into better beings. So many years have passed and yet both the descendants of slaves and slave masters are still so busy indulging in their petty sentiments. It's disheartening that after all the suffering endured during that period of history, humans have still not made this very simple connection, that life is not meant to be caged.

[boumalo]

What's really sad is that humans have not learned anything from slavery. They are so self-important, self-centered and selfish that they missed this window of opportunity to evolve into better beings. So many years have passed and yet both the descendants of slaves and slave masters are still so busy indulging in their petty sentiments. It's disheartening that after all the suffering endured during that period of history, humans have still not made this very simple connection, that life is not meant to be caged.

Think Europe and the States have done a good work accepting human beings for what they are; the States still have the problem of keeping the black community impoverished by keeping them low saying they can't succeed because of what their ancestors endured; they received a lot of government handouts that are known to keep community into poverty