rammy2k2
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Activity: 1974
Merit: 1003
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October 26, 2014, 10:16:29 AM |
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Esoteric will be adding full company address/name/#'s to their site, as well as links for their fb/twitter accounts as well. Bitcoin-trader.biz did to same. No difference or reason why eso is legit. It is still a ponzi pushed from a few users, thats it, nothing else. No difference you say? Ok well prove your statement  There is nothing to prove. We know the name, company address and they have/had a fb and tweeter account. The only difference is that they (eso) are located in the US instead of Panama. That fact has nothing to say or do you think there is no ponzi fraud in the US? Nobody will offer that amount of interest without being fraudulant. The problem is you don't have any experience in bitcoin. Try actually getting involved in it. I just made a 5% profit by myself in bitcoin trading in only a few minutes yesterday on cex.io. so go tell your story to someone else. 1. I have HUGE experience in Bitcoin and i say its a SCAM 2. I see you're getting this very personal that makes me think this is your site. Would u share your identity to big investors so they can see u are for real ? 3. If it aint your "company", u fight too much to prove a SCAM aint a SCAM when its clearly a SCAM |
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Digicoinz (OP)
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October 26, 2014, 10:21:19 AM |
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Esoteric will be adding full company address/name/#'s to their site, as well as links for their fb/twitter accounts as well. Bitcoin-trader.biz did to same. No difference or reason why eso is legit. It is still a ponzi pushed from a few users, thats it, nothing else. No difference you say? Ok well prove your statement There is nothing to prove. We know the name, company address and they have/had a fb and tweeter account. The only difference is that they (eso) are located in the US instead of Panama. That fact has nothing to say or do you think there is no ponzi fraud in the US? Nobody will offer that amount of interest without being fraudulant. The problem is you don't have any experience in bitcoin. Try actually getting involved in it. I just made a 5% profit by myself in bitcoin trading in only a few minutes yesterday on cex.io. so go tell your story to someone else. 1. I have HUGE experience in Bitcoin and i say its a SCAM 2. I see you're getting this very personal that makes me think this is your site. Would u share your identity to big investors so they can see u are for real ? 3. If it aint your "company", u fight too much to prove a SCAM aint a SCAM when its clearly a SCAM 1. I doubt you do 2. no it's not my site, and yes I would, because I'd have nothing to hide whilst operating a legitimate service 3. And I fight for it, because I talk to the owner almost all day long in his chatroom on the website, and I"ve spoken with him over the phone., and they know their shit about cryptocurrency trading as well as the fact they will be posting information and features on the site that will prove their not operating as a ponzi. So you should actually stop being prejudice open your mind a lil and actually go to the company (which you can officially visit them) and find out for yourself. Cause right now all you are doing is pointing fingers and 3 of them are pointing back at you. |
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eneloop
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Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 10:24:42 AM |
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And you are getting personal again. Reply to my comment!
About there being ponzi fraud in the US? I never said there isn't. But why make assumptions, just because a company offers a nice return on an investment that you can also achieve on your own with the same bitcoin trading methods they're doing? Difference between eso and bitcoin-trader.biz. What makes eso so legit in comparson to bitcoin-trader.biz? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. A fraudster will always try to make you believe. Thats their "job". At the moment you are doing this job. |
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Digicoinz (OP)
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October 26, 2014, 10:30:48 AM |
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And you are getting personal again. Reply to my comment!
About there being ponzi fraud in the US? I never said there isn't. But why make assumptions, just because a company offers a nice return on an investment that you can also achieve on your own with the same bitcoin trading methods they're doing? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. no actually they weren't, because they avoided me when i was trying to get actual proof of their "arbitrage" activities. nobody really asked the right questions (that i know of). Esoteric (dan and glenn) will be providing actual proof of where our money will be stored, and transactional histories through the blockchain when bitcoins are moved from the wallets to the exchanges, etc. As well as a plethora of information regarding trading activities in general and any other methods they might devise of to further profits with bitcoins (within legal limits). They are making all the efforts to operate legitimately within the laws of the U.S., just give them some time to prove themselves.. Cause believe me, I will hunt them down if they turn out to be a scam (which as i've said they've done nothing to indicate otherwise at this time). |
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Digicoinz (OP)
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October 26, 2014, 10:42:30 AM |
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You could call them too. Also when i spoke with Dan Pace over the phone, he told me they were looking at office space to rent. the location of jpaccounts may have multiple offices in the same building. Also being that Esoteric is new, the "internet" tends not to update records very quickly. And I've come across whitepages.com listing that were outdated. This occurred even with my own name/address. I'm not saying it's wrong, but just dig deeper and be sure I let Dan know about your findings. He'll clear things up. |
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eneloop
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Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 10:47:48 AM |
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And you are getting personal again. Reply to my comment!
About there being ponzi fraud in the US? I never said there isn't. But why make assumptions, just because a company offers a nice return on an investment that you can also achieve on your own with the same bitcoin trading methods they're doing? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. no actually they weren't, because they avoided me when i was trying to get actual proof of their "arbitrage" activities. nobody really asked the right questions (that i know of). Esoteric (dan and glenn) will be providing actual proof of where our money will be stored, and transactional histories through the blockchain when bitcoins are moved from the wallets to the exchanges, etc. As well as a plethora of information regarding trading activities in general and any other methods they might devise of to further profits with bitcoins (within legal limits). They are making all the efforts to operate legitimately within the laws of the U.S., just give them some time to prove themselves.. Cause believe me, I will hunt them down if they turn out to be a scam (which as i've said they've done nothing to indicate otherwise at this time). "will be" is not the same as "they did" Transferring coins between wallets is not a good evidence for trading before we don't know the wallets owners. And you did not come to the idea that this is just a small improvement to bitcoin-trader.biz to get investors money? He'll clear things up. I'm sure he will, else it's a really bad prepared ponzi. |
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Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 10:48:44 AM |
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Digicoinz (OP)
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October 26, 2014, 10:57:16 AM |
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And you are getting personal again. Reply to my comment!
About there being ponzi fraud in the US? I never said there isn't. But why make assumptions, just because a company offers a nice return on an investment that you can also achieve on your own with the same bitcoin trading methods they're doing? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. no actually they weren't, because they avoided me when i was trying to get actual proof of their "arbitrage" activities. nobody really asked the right questions (that i know of). Esoteric (dan and glenn) will be providing actual proof of where our money will be stored, and transactional histories through the blockchain when bitcoins are moved from the wallets to the exchanges, etc. As well as a plethora of information regarding trading activities in general and any other methods they might devise of to further profits with bitcoins (within legal limits). They are making all the efforts to operate legitimately within the laws of the U.S., just give them some time to prove themselves.. Cause believe me, I will hunt them down if they turn out to be a scam (which as i've said they've done nothing to indicate otherwise at this time). "will be" is not the same as "they did" Transferring coins between wallets is not a good evidence for trading before we don't know the wallets owners. And you did not come to the idea that this is just a small improvement to bitcoin-trader.biz to get investors money? He'll clear things up. I'm sure he will, else it's a really bad prepared ponzi. I would be lying if i said they did, why are you splitting hairs lol And they can still show past transactions after the fact. god... curious question, what makes you believe a bank can be trusted more with your money, when the U.S. govt's money has no value (the country's debt is higher then the money they can dish out to pay it back) That makes money worthless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU&list=WL&index=1 especially part 3-4 of the series. and then tell me why you wouldn't rather deal in bitcoin, say fuck off to the government, and just reap the benefits, regardless the outcome. rule #1) Don't invest what you can't afford to lose, #2) Read Rule 1 #3) simply watch out for the signs of a potential scam and pull out all you can, and move on. Too much drama people. If you don't like it, stay away from it, you'll never accomplish anything just making accusations, seriuosly nothing. |
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eneloop
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Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 11:10:43 AM |
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And you are getting personal again. Reply to my comment!
About there being ponzi fraud in the US? I never said there isn't. But why make assumptions, just because a company offers a nice return on an investment that you can also achieve on your own with the same bitcoin trading methods they're doing? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. no actually they weren't, because they avoided me when i was trying to get actual proof of their "arbitrage" activities. nobody really asked the right questions (that i know of). Esoteric (dan and glenn) will be providing actual proof of where our money will be stored, and transactional histories through the blockchain when bitcoins are moved from the wallets to the exchanges, etc. As well as a plethora of information regarding trading activities in general and any other methods they might devise of to further profits with bitcoins (within legal limits). They are making all the efforts to operate legitimately within the laws of the U.S., just give them some time to prove themselves.. Cause believe me, I will hunt them down if they turn out to be a scam (which as i've said they've done nothing to indicate otherwise at this time). "will be" is not the same as "they did" Transferring coins between wallets is not a good evidence for trading before we don't know the wallets owners. And you did not come to the idea that this is just a small improvement to bitcoin-trader.biz to get investors money? He'll clear things up. I'm sure he will, else it's a really bad prepared ponzi. I would be lying if i said they did, why are you splitting hairs lol And they can still show past transactions after the fact. god... curious question, what makes you believe a bank can be trusted more with your money, when the U.S. govt's money has no value (the country's debt is higher then the money they can dish out to pay it back) That makes money worthless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU&list=WL&index=1 especially part 3-4 of the series. and then tell me why you wouldn't rather deal in bitcoin, say fuck off to the government, and just reap the benefits, regardless the outcome. rule #1) Don't invest what you can't afford to lose, #2) Read Rule 1 #3) simply watch out for the signs of a potential scam and pull out all you can, and move on. Too much drama people. If you don't like it, stay away from it, you'll never accomplish anything just making accusations, seriuosly nothing. 1. To assume that, there is not a single difference to bitcoin-trader.biz at the moment but you are fighting for eso that hard. Interesting... 2. You are really comparing a new private run company from some kids to the economic output of whole countries? That makes me laugh. If the US files bankruptcy we will definitly have other problems than "worth of money" for sure. 3. One reason we have this sub-board is to warn other users and especially newbies from scam. |
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Phantom Trader
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Activity: 42
Merit: 0
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October 26, 2014, 11:14:44 AM |
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Dominic WB2PTV radio license is my father since you cared to check so deep as the ARRL I have one to KC2IJQ. Julia is my mother JP accounts is her self owned accounting practice. The other Dominic is also my brother (also has a radio license can't remember his call sign) and Juliana is my sister. Yes my mom is an accountant and I live with my family right now. She deals with people who lose money everyday from investments and some who have lost money in schemes like you all claim of me. Meaning if I were to be running one she would kill me and disown me as her son! So add that to the pile of evidence that I'm not running a ponzi scheme at Esoteric Investments. Now that you know my entire family(!) consult me or Glenn or come to our site, contact us through the site, post on bitcoin talk forum or send us a message on any social media platform, we have left dozens of opportunities to ask us anything for any of this stuff. We aren't hiding anywhere! Our personal families should not be brought into this for any reason and it is rude and uncalled for to have/do so when we have been so open and available. Glenn has also received a phone call at his home later in the evening disturbing his family. This is while we have a contact phone number right on our site and social medias. There is no reason for all of this digging and snooping around. If you have a question ask it we'll answer it's as simple as that. As far as Debra goes she's possibly a typo or something no idea where white pages got her from unless that's my grandma's name who I hardly remember. and David Tompkins same story possibly a past resident but no relation to me. |
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Phantom Trader
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October 26, 2014, 11:26:50 AM |
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Oh and Brother is moved out to Texas so White pages is behind. and I'm just out of college with a biochemistry degree with a political science minor as I'd like to have some involvement in world politics in the future from Rider university (need my diploma or are you gonna email my mom for it?) better things I could do with my time then try and run a ponzi scheme and ruin my future when that was inevitably found out as EVERY ponzi scheme is whether in the middle or the end. Doing that fresh out of college before I have my own car or house to ruin my credit reputation and just all around good standing for any future sort of political career. Yea that wouldn't be too bright and a good way to spend my tuition!
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Centaurus
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October 26, 2014, 11:28:41 AM |
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I don't know if Eso is (or is not) a scheme; but currently they are instantly paying all my withdrawals.
Moreover, even if they become to be a ponzi, I can withdraw my money before the site break.
I assume you're just lying and hoping to pull in other victims so you can benefit from the ponzi, just like sunny1 and Digicoinz. However, the way to know for sure that it's a ponzi is that the site "breaks" and you can no longer withdraw any money. Ideally it's done in such a way that naive people will assume that it will be fixed again. This gives the scammer more time to remove evidence. No; I don't. I lost money with BT, it is ok if I recover my money with Eso, regardless they activity. And Yes, currently they (Eso) are instantly paying all my withdrawals! You can't judge me, and don't need to think if I am Lying or not. Moreover I don't know these names. Most familiar to you. Please, don't bother me, we can stop by here. |
Centaurus
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Phantom Trader
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Activity: 42
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October 26, 2014, 11:54:30 AM |
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Difference between eso and bitcoin-trader.biz. What makes eso so legit in comparson to bitcoin-trader.biz? Again: There is NO WAY somebody will pay you this amount of interest. Hint: bitcoin-trader.biz where communicating very well too. A fraudster will always try to make you believe. Thats their "job". At the moment you are doing this job. [/quote] I've been wanting to say this for a while but hate bringing up Bitcoin trader in any conversation involving Esoteric Investments. Closest thing we ever had to model our site and service after was bitcoin trader, which is why you see the HYIP payout model. because we modeled it from them not because we want to be seen as an HYIP or be seen as a scam, but because so many people seemed perfectly fine investing in them. Despite being a panamanian company that operated in the UK that had a pretty low profits margin from arbitrage and a simple exit strategy...disappear. They claimed to perform arbitrage that'd at most make ~1 percent daily and probly not on the amounts that they were supposedly moving. That seemed reasonable to many of you. We're trading with a large pool of money that we could potentially move markets daily if we wanted. We're just using the pool to get in on large movers like DOGE did and CANN did and several weed coins and URO to supply our payouts. These markets moved over 100% each. So I'm getting tired of hearing we can't perform those types of payouts in trading you can without a doubt, and the way it is set up is that when there are no more profits money then there's no payouts till there is. So we don’t even need to sustain those payouts! We take a cut off the top of profits when we can do payouts we get paid from this and have no reason to perform a scam. Another thing Bitcoin trader was lacking, no actual source of income for them or their employees. Least you know where ours is coming from. Plus we are in the US they track their investment fraud culprits to the end. You all have our addresses place of work names and so does the government with our LLC registration currently and more registrations to come. We've also offered anyone to pay us a visit and a video of us is coming in the next week so you can all see our faces. So our payout model was chosen only because Bitcoin Trader got so big and trusted with it so seemed like a logical place to build from since it worked for them. Not knowing they were a scam or we'd have never modeled after them and done more a variable monthly thing based on our trading. But thats why we look like an HYIP. Our trading can potentially make trades multiple times a month of over 100% for the investment that got put into that coin. Hell of a lot more to be made than from arbing, so payouts make more sense then bitcoin trader. and again we're in the US we can't get up and disappear from the government or from you all, exit strategy is a hell of a lot more difficult. and the first thing we want to do is get accreditation anywhere we can in the states with FINcen and SEC, not host a bitcoin conference like a past favorite company of many of us. So where are our red flags that say we’re a scam besides our registrations. Which by the way there was progress on that front we’ll be contacting this attorney for a consult come Monday when the offices open. http://www.lawyers.com/cherry-hill/new-jersey/Eric-D-Frank-32202041-a/ What I'm saying is we look like we do because thats what you all seemed to like and want, and we had a way to provide it. Any one see the logic in our thinking there... You all are just saying stuff just to say it. Very little substance on this thread now just accusations. We'll be able to prove ourselves with what we got given time, we don't need investments so stay un-invested if you don't trust us, and if you do start earning sooner. PS if you all want us to lower the payouts to something more sustainable, even though sustainability has nothing to do with our payout model, that is fine it'd be more we can take off the top for ourselves  so let me know. |
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Puppet
Legendary
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 12:23:26 PM |
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Doing that fresh out of college before I have my own car or house to ruin my credit reputation and just all around good standing for any future sort of political career. Yea that wouldn't be too bright and a good way to spend my tuition!
You already ruined all that by promoting and selling an unregistered security. So even if you were not planning to scam people (fat chance) or you thought you where clever by not running a ponzi, but instead incur 60% "trade losses" and then say 'sorry', it doesnt matter, you're already in deep doo doo. Your "because bitcoin" argument doesnt fly, its been refuted many times in court already. eg: http://www.communitycurrencieslaw.org/securities/TLDR; Bitcoin denominated securities are securities and subject to the same rules. Ask your mom what the penalties are. |
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sunny1
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October 26, 2014, 02:07:19 PM |
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Doing that fresh out of college before I have my own car or house to ruin my credit reputation and just all around good standing for any future sort of political career. Yea that wouldn't be too bright and a good way to spend my tuition!
You already ruined all that by promoting and selling an unregistered security. So even if you were not planning to scam people (fat chance) or you thought you where clever by not running a ponzi, but instead incur 60% "trade losses" and then say 'sorry', it doesnt matter, you're already in deep doo doo. Your "because bitcoin" argument doesnt fly, its been refuted many times in court already. eg: http://www.communitycurrencieslaw.org/securities/TLDR; Bitcoin denominated securities are securities and subject to the same rules. Ask your mom what the penalties are. I agree with you! Anyway, Dan will speak to his lawyer tomorrow, as stated, and I am sure that counsel will advise him to halt the operation until such time all necessary licenses are aquired. |
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eneloop
Legendary
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Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 03:33:18 PM |
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[...]
and again we're in the US we can't get up and disappear from the government or from you all, exit strategy is a hell of a lot more difficult. and the first thing we want to do is get accreditation anywhere we can in the states with FINcen and SEC, not host a bitcoin conference like a past favorite company of many of us. So where are our red flags that say we’re a scam besides our registrations.
[...]
We'll be able to prove ourselves with what we got given time, we don't need investments so stay un-invested
[...]
I always read "we will" and "we want"... you won't get any trust without an sustaibable audit. An audit that proofes your successful arbitrage activities to pay your customers interest. -> When can we expect this? If you don't need any customers investments then it was a really bad decision to open your doors after bitcoin-trader.biz fiasco without any audit. If you want to gain some trust stop to take investors money NOW (you don't need it). A registered company means nothing. No.1 lame excuse in crypto world is "we got hacked, we have to file bankruptsy". Happend several times and the hack was just an inside job. |
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Digicoinz (OP)
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October 26, 2014, 03:43:26 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2014, 03:53:58 PM by Digicoinz |
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BT had claimed they did an audit, but never actually shown proof of it. Yet ppl just assumed it was fact?
Again why so adamant about govt being involved? You trust the govt that much? You're pretty ignorant if you do.
Work for the state like I have and you'll find out its a f*d up system. There's no credibility just because a piece of paper says so. Even with govt certification, a business can be gone the very next day.
I trust this company because of its actions not a piece of paper.
Secondly would you please actually pay attention. In the very first post of this thread it is stated esoteric isn't performing any arbitrage trading. So stop thinking you're on the BT thread.
Thank you!
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eneloop
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Activity: 1513
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October 26, 2014, 04:13:45 PM |
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BT had claimed they did an audit, but never actually shown proof of it. Yet ppl just assumed it was fact? BT claimed they were hacked during audit. I don't believe there was any kind of audit, just a nice story. Nobody assumed a successful audit as a fact. Again why so adamant about govt being involved? You trust the govt that much? You're pretty ignorant if you do. I'm talking about an audit done by a trustable independent company. There are several out their doing this as their everyday business. Yep, I have more trust in govt than into this kind of private run startup company. I trust this company because of its actions not a piece of paper. What actions? Their communication, their registered company, their names and where they live? What I want to see are their daily results as a proof how they can pay this amount of interest every day + this fact audited. We won't have any discussion if that was already done (no problem I think, because eso don't need investors money). |
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eneloop
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Activity: 1513
Merit: 1040
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October 26, 2014, 04:22:22 PM |
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Yep, their method(s).
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