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Author Topic: Bubble only exists where lack of culture (and criminal elite behind the bubble)  (Read 1931 times)
AntiVigilante
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May 14, 2011, 08:03:45 PM
 #1

We can prevent the Bitcoin crash of 2013 by using Bitcoin to produce valuable items.

I am creating several assets on GBLSE to this effect.

Drop ideas here or create a thread.

Are we a community of ADHD traders or a culture of well informed citizens?


Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
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sinaasappel
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May 14, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
 #2

Money gets people mad, crashes are caused by elite because they control large ammounts. And producing quality is speeding up crashes.

Back on the elite, they are even as normal (in behauvior) as normal people, only, they are smarter and they can use the law by their hired private bankers.

The only way you can counter a bubble and stretching it is by persuading people not to invest in it, like the facebook bubble for next summer or so, dunno when its going to be relased. FB will not continue to exist, its a child of the internet bubble. How to persuade not to invest in FB on stockmarkets? Persuade with facts powerfull people who have financiel followers, like Gates, Trump, the berkshire hatteway guy. If they do not invest, don't invest. And for the rest, i have not a clue of what you are saying.
TradersEdgeDice
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May 14, 2011, 08:56:32 PM
 #3

Real exchanges have rules.

BTC exchanges do not.

It hurts to be a merchant because you don't know what you're getting.  The inclination to immediately convert back to USD is strong.

I won't be doing that because I am in for the long haul…  Wherever that may be.

Like what I posted?

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FreeMoney
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May 14, 2011, 09:01:10 PM
 #4

Real exchanges have rules.

BTC exchanges do not.
 

If you have rules about who you trade with and how then all of your exchanges have rules.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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May 14, 2011, 09:22:26 PM
 #5

Real exchanges have rules.

BTC exchanges do not.
 

If you have rules about who you trade with and how then all of your exchanges have rules.

Bingo. Instant culture. Add community to that and bricks will be shat.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
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May 15, 2011, 03:23:17 AM
 #6

Your title is a very loaded statement, IMHO.  Could you please explain what you mean and how you define your terms. (your defined model of justice and what culture, criminality, and elite are) 

First, the bubble I'm refering to is the one from the fresh bills just add water economy.

Justice and criminality in another thread (brain crash imminent - late here).

Elite - those who define themselves as deserving of benefits based on class, riches (not same as wealth), fame, and justify their behavior based on the same attributes. Not talking about some pyramid of evil doers just a group of opportunists who know what's good for business and will do whatever that is at others' expense.
Community - group of people contributing together.
Culture - group of people resonating and taking action spontaneously for reasons outside of short term cost / benefit analysis.

Now some see a bubble in the bitcoin economy. I see a different issue: It's not a bubble rather it's the velocity with which it moves. And it would be interesting if someone could quantify the total rig cost, distribution, sales of hardware, and generating power. This would tell everyone whether it is a bubble. But even then it is possible to provide substance to the bubble.

You do it by employing bitcoin in applications that add or multiply value in other activities which more and more people can participate in and then pulling those participants into the rig market.

Speaking of which, bitcoin is rigged. LOL.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
benjamindees
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May 15, 2011, 09:25:29 AM
 #7

And it would be interesting if someone could quantify the total rig cost, distribution, sales of hardware, and generating power. This would tell everyone whether it is a bubble.

The problem with this, which you know already, is that distribution, hardware and power are all priced in currencies other than Bitcoins.  And there's no realistic way to determine the value of Bitcoins in relation to those currencies except via trial and error, known as "price discovery".  You can try, of course.  But you will get ridiculous results like Vladimir offering to grow carrots at 1000x the market price.  I could give you a price in Bitcoins for building a factory that makes silicon wafers to create Bitcoin miners and photovoltaics.  But that price would be pretty high.  Because the Bitcoin economy isn't good at creating things like computers and electricity.  It's good at creating digital currency.  So it trades for everything else.  And this is the best way to proceed because we don't know the direct equation for determining the value of digital currency in relation to things like computers and electricity.

Regardless, I mostly agree with you.  I like the analogy of "culture" to an economy.  In English, culture has two definitions.  One means "people's habits".  The other means "bacteria".  That's not a coincidence.  Successful human cultures are built upon untold numbers of tiny invisible pieces, like bacteria, fostering symbiotic relationships, and circular resource flows.  Unsuccessful ones, ones that look more like bubbles, are built upon total dependence on external inputs and one-way processes.  Many modern societies are completely devoid of culture.  They have fake lawns, fake houses, fake businesses, fake people, and fake currencies.  The entire society is built upon nothing.  There are no bacteria at the base of the society to recycle materials and close the loop, only the dead remains of bacteria that lived long ago, and which now fuel their fake automobiles to take them to the fake shopping mall to stimulate the fake economy.  Some even go so far as to invent non-existent bacteria, living deep below their feet, supporting their entire fake society.  It won't end, they tell themselves, because there have to be bacteria there, somewhere.  They can't come to terms with the fact that everything around them is one big bubble.  They have no habits.  Nothing is constant.  It's just one bubble after another, leading to an inevitable final *pop*.

Whether Bitcoin is a bubble or whether it develops a culture and closes the loop remains to be seen.  I think it has at least as good a chance as most.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
sinaasappel
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May 15, 2011, 09:33:10 PM
 #8

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Unsuccessful ones, ones that look more like bubbles, are built upon total dependence on external inputs and one-way processes.

Bubbles are not depending for the full 100% on external inputs. Bubbles are sometimes created beceause it happend in thhe past that they were working fine. But now people start to put more and more hope on/in that bubble, those same people who are already inside the bubble without realizing it that they are feeding; by rumours; their own bubble.

Alongside that aspect is the current situation of the niche where the bubble is made. You can blow up a ballon but you cant close it with just air, and you need the growthspace from inside to grow.

Funny, it was mentioned that we live in a adhd ttrading culture, why do you take 'slow' trading as the (best) standard? Why not use technologie to do something better? Offc, their must be a line drawn where involving technologie stops. And my culture, we are not like americans, so do not take adhd as worldwide granted behavior on markets.

(This topic is so general, with some very theoritical views on subjects where people all have diffirent views and understandings of. 'Culture' is the hardest one, politics, crime and so on come sideways with 'culture'. )
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May 16, 2011, 07:45:03 AM
 #9

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Unsuccessful ones, ones that look more like bubbles, are built upon total dependence on external inputs and one-way processes.

Bubbles are not depending for the full 100% on external inputs. Bubbles are sometimes created beceause it happend in thhe past that they were working fine. But now people start to put more and more hope on/in that bubble, those same people who are already inside the bubble without realizing it that they are feeding; by rumours; their own bubble.

Hope is fake work. Culture is real work. Thing is culture you can get for free if you are willing to trade the time.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
hazek
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May 16, 2011, 01:21:36 PM
 #10

It's impossible to be well informed when you have the biggest and most popular exchange offering dark pool orders hidden from the small guy. Right now there's more than 3times as many sell orders as there are buy orders and yet the price keeps going up.

If I were to daytrade I certainly wouldn't feel informed about my actions. I'd be speculating and gambling.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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