Bitcoin will inevitably Fail as Altcoins suceed

[FastForwarded]

A little info about me: I'm a decent sized Bitcoin holder, having a little under 1,000 bitcoins as of right now. I bought most of them in late 2012 and sold quite a bit more around mid 2013. Anyway, at the beginning I entertained the thought that Bitcoin will truly change the world and become a revolutionary, unstoppable force. But, after really looking at both sides of the story, I realized that Bitcoin is doomed to fail no matter how much media exposure it gets. I know what I type below seems hypocritical, with myself owning Bitcoins, but I can't hold it in any longer and watch all the brainwashing go on in this forum. I truly do not believe that Bitcoin will stay on top the next coming years, for the reasons listed below, it's(Bitcoin's) entire history has been falsified. I have recently turned my attention away from Bitcoin and into Altcoins, which believe it or not, lack the faults that Bitcoin has below and improve on nearly everything that Bitcoin can't.

Basically I've come up with a few basic reasons why everything we knew about Bitcoin, price wise, has been false, and that the entire market is 100% manipulation and games.


1) Satoshi Nakamoto owns a reported 1,000,000(1million) bitcoins. Does anyone else see the huge huge problem with this? If Satoshi's bitcoin wallet or addresses were hacked or taken control of by a relative, friend, or others and they decided to even sell a fraction of the coins, coupled with the already uncertain market, Bitcoin's price will plummet to less than $1 per coin. Honestly, Satoshi owning 1million bitcoins has doomed Bitcoin from the start. This is one of the Major reasons why so few legit organzations are out there accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment and another reason why most people looking at Bitcoin think of it as a ponzi scheme(which it is) or scam.

2) The Bitcoin Foundation, or the board representing Bitcoin, is full of illegal activity with dozens of former foundation members resigning from their positions this year. Charlie Shrem, a (former?) foundation member, has been invicted on April 10, 2014 on accusations of "operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, money laundering conspiracy and willfully failing to file suspicious activity reports with banking authorities". He was using Bitcoin to help users of the illegal drug marketplace, Silk Road, buy drugs with Bitcoin, as well as operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, (former) Bitinstant and Brock Pierce (current) foundation member, is an accused Child Molester.

3) Bitcoin is centralized. It is controlled by the mining pools. For instance, just a few months ago, Ghash.io caused quite a scare in which even Peter Todd, a core developer for Bitcoin, announced that he would be selling 51% of his Bitcoin's due to Ghash.io controlling and approaching 51% of Bitcoin's entire hashrate, which would easily allow them to commit a 51% attack on Bitcoin, thereby killing the currency by basically printing duplicate Bitcoins.

4) The most damming evidence of Bitcoin's certain death as of right now(excluding Satoshi's huge 1million Bitcoin stash) however, is Willy. Willy was a bot used on the MtGox exchange from since back in 2012. Willy was illegaly using false fiat funds to buy large quantities of Bitcoin's every hour for days and months on end, which was what led to All of Bitcoin's previous bullruns, as well as dumps when Willy reversed the trend and started selling Bitcoins. Basically, Bitcoin's entire price rise history and dumps, is due not to the traders, not to the news, but to a bot using fake money to buy bitcoins and sell them at a profit. Based upon that information, one can only guess that Bitcoin will never see a $1000+ price per coin again. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

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[FastForwarded]

However: Had it not been for Satoshi Nakamoto's absolutely enormous stash of 1million Bitcoins, then I truly believe that Bitcoin would have become as famous as the internet had in the 1990s. But because of that risk(Satoshi's stash) being there, no serious longterm investor will be getting into the Bitcoin market(Believe me, some previous investors have already left, remember those very large Bitcoin sell orders last month?). I believe Satoshi's stash is also what spurred bots like Willy( I believe there are more on exchanges like Okcoin, Btc-e), to become active in the first place, as they saw the market was devoid of investors and they took advantage of that.

[mezmerizer9]

nah, I don't thinks so. There are just too many altcoins out there, mostly useless and the bitcoin is, well bitcoin, the main cryptocurency and the mostly used one. Bitcoin will have it's glory soon enough.

[FastForwarded]

nah, I don't thinks so. There are just too many altcoins out there, mostly useless and the bitcoin is, well bitcoin, the main cryptocurency and the mostly used one. Bitcoin will have it's glory soon enough.

You don't list any reasons as to back up your thoughts on why Bitcoin will "have it's glory soon enough", given the evidence that I've stated above..But, I respect your opinion.

[knight22]

[FastForwarded]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

[FastForwarded]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

Smart Contracts are from 1995, old news.

Edit: Bitcoin is the currency designed to be ran on the blockchain. No matter what's added. End of story.

Ok, So?...Yes we know Bitcoin runs on the blockchain, so do many other coins. The thing that marks Bitcoin ahead of altcoins, is it's headstart. Bitcoin's many pumps were fabricated, one person(or group or people) called Satoshi Nakamoto owns around 1million bitcoins, and the group that represents Bitcoin has been tarnished by scandals involving it's members(There was even a thread showing the amount of people giving up on their memberships to the Bitcoinfoundation).

[knight22]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

Smart Contracts are from 1995, old news.

Edit: Bitcoin is the currency designed to be ran on the blockchain. No matter what's added. End of story.

Ok, I still don't really get what you're trying to convey...Yes we know Bitcoin runs on the blockchain, so does many other coins.

The thing is, there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people, the one that has the most accessibility and the most hashing power therefore bitcoin. Network effect is stronger than you might think.

[FastForwarded]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

Smart Contracts are from 1995, old news.

Edit: Bitcoin is the currency designed to be ran on the blockchain. No matter what's added. End of story.

Ok, I still don't really get what you're trying to convey...Yes we know Bitcoin runs on the blockchain, so does many other coins.

The thing is, there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people, the one that has the most accessibility and the most hashing power. Network effect is stronger than you might think.

There's a misunderstanding there, "there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people". That statement makes me believe that you think all altcoins are simply copy,clones of Bitcoin? If so, I would have to say that's entirely wrong. From what I've seen in that space, there are large #'s of coins that do not use the Bitcoin sourcecode at all and are made from scratch. In fact, even the 100% Bitcoin clone coins from years ago(2011-2012), improved upon Bitcoin in simple things like confirmation times and algo's used.

[knight22]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

Smart Contracts are from 1995, old news.

Edit: Bitcoin is the currency designed to be ran on the blockchain. No matter what's added. End of story.

Ok, I still don't really get what you're trying to convey...Yes we know Bitcoin runs on the blockchain, so does many other coins.

The thing is, there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people, the one that has the most accessibility and the most hashing power. Network effect is stronger than you might think.

There's a misunderstanding there, "there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people". That statement makes me believe that you think all altcoins are simply copy,clones of Bitcoin? If so, I would have to say that's entirely wrong. From what I've seen in that space, there are large #'s of coins that do not use the Bitcoin sourcecode at all and are made from scratch. In fact, even the 100% Bitcoin clone coins from years ago(2011-2012), improved upon Bitcoin in simple things like confirmation times and algo's used.

Yes, altcoins have a lot of thing behind the curtains that are different from bitcoin but not for the end user and this is what matters the most.

[FastForwarded]

You do understand the Blockchain? You do understand Bitcoin is like an app on the Blockchain? Bitcoin is the currency to be used on the Blockchain for payments when the other apps, services and smart contracts are incorporated into the Blockchain. Bitcoin is going nowhere but UP in value over time.

Exactly what does the Blockchain technology have to do with this topic....I'm talking about Bitcoin, the "currency", not the underlying tech. Smart contracts, services, exactly what are you talking about? Are you getting this confused with those "2.0" altcoins? Those aren't currencies so to speak, more like applications.

Smart Contracts are from 1995, old news.

Edit: Bitcoin is the currency designed to be ran on the blockchain. No matter what's added. End of story.

Ok, I still don't really get what you're trying to convey...Yes we know Bitcoin runs on the blockchain, so does many other coins.

The thing is, there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people, the one that has the most accessibility and the most hashing power. Network effect is stronger than you might think.

There's a misunderstanding there, "there is absolutely no point of using an alternate blockchain when you can do the same things using the one that is used by most people". That statement makes me believe that you think all altcoins are simply copy,clones of Bitcoin? If so, I would have to say that's entirely wrong. From what I've seen in that space, there are large #'s of coins that do not use the Bitcoin sourcecode at all and are made from scratch. In fact, even the 100% Bitcoin clone coins from years ago(2011-2012), improved upon Bitcoin in simple things like confirmation times and algo's used.

Yes, altcoins have a lot of thing behind the curtains that are different from bitcoin but not for the end user and this is what matters the most.

The things for the end user. Again, Bitcoin's only ahead in that area because of it's headstart as the first cryptocurrency. I'm not against Bitcoin, I'm just against the mystical image it's given in this forum, it seems like brainwashing as I see users post things that are absolutely outrageous...especially given it's "fatal" flaws that I've stated in the first post.

[knight22]

1) Satoshi Nakamoto owns a reported 1,000,000(1million) bitcoins. Does anyone else see the huge huge problem with this?

No. I think Satoshi well deserve his stash for taking a lot of his time creating bitcoin. Otherwise there would be no bitcoin and even no altcoin at all.

2) The Bitcoin Foundation, or the board representing Bitcoin, is full of illegal activity with dozens of former foundation members resigning from their positions this year. Charlie Shrem, a (former?) foundation member, has been invicted on April 10, 2014 on accusations of "operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, money laundering conspiracy and willfully failing to file suspicious activity reports with banking authorities". He was using Bitcoin to help users of the illegal drug marketplace, Silk Road, buy drugs with Bitcoin, as well as operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, (former) Bitinstant and Brock Pierce (current) foundation member, is an accused Child Molester.

The bitcoin foundation has no authority over the bitcoin protocol so they can do whatever they want. End of story.

3) Bitcoin is centralized. It is controlled by the mining pools. For instance, just a few months ago, Ghash.io caused quite a scare in which even Peter Todd, a core developer for Bitcoin, announced that he would be selling 51% of his Bitcoin's due to Ghash.io controlling and approaching 51% of Bitcoin's entire hashrate, which would easily allow them to commit a 51% attack on Bitcoin, thereby killing the currency by basically printing duplicate Bitcoins.

There is no incentive for any mining pool to undermine the network because of the economic and social forces behind it.

4) The most damming evidence of Bitcoin's certain death as of right now(excluding Satoshi's huge 1million Bitcoin stash) however, is Willy. Willy was a bot used on the MtGox exchange from since back in 2012. Willy was illegaly using false fiat funds to buy large quantities of Bitcoin's every hour for days and months on end, which was what led to All of Bitcoin's previous bullruns, as well as dumps when Willy reversed the trend and started selling Bitcoins. Basically, Bitcoin's entire price rise history and dumps, is due not to the traders, not to the news, but to a bot using fake money to buy bitcoins and sell them at a profit. Based upon that information, one can only guess that Bitcoin will never see a $1000+ price per coin again. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

The volatility will fade out when market users will out number the total of trader. Until then expect a lot of volatility and manipulation.

If any of your points was fatal ones. Bitcoin would be already dead. Also, altcoins don't even address these.

[1echo]

all alts are traded to BTC so this wont happen

[lyth0s]

If an altcoin has a serious advantage over bitcoin, we can most likely implement that feature into bitcoin and just fork it. But with the strength of the bitcoin network the new coin would have to have a serious advantage.

[FastForwarded]

1) Satoshi Nakamoto owns a reported 1,000,000(1million) bitcoins. Does anyone else see the huge huge problem with this?

No. I think Satoshi well deserve his stash for taking a lot of his time creating bitcoin. Otherwise there would be no bitcoin and even no altcoin at all.

2) The Bitcoin Foundation, or the board representing Bitcoin, is full of illegal activity with dozens of former foundation members resigning from their positions this year. Charlie Shrem, a (former?) foundation member, has been invicted on April 10, 2014 on accusations of "operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, money laundering conspiracy and willfully failing to file suspicious activity reports with banking authorities". He was using Bitcoin to help users of the illegal drug marketplace, Silk Road, buy drugs with Bitcoin, as well as operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, (former) Bitinstant and Brock Pierce (current) foundation member, is an accused Child Molester.

The bitcoin foundation has no authority over the bitcoin protocol so they can do whatever they want. End of story.

3) Bitcoin is centralized. It is controlled by the mining pools. For instance, just a few months ago, Ghash.io caused quite a scare in which even Peter Todd, a core developer for Bitcoin, announced that he would be selling 51% of his Bitcoin's due to Ghash.io controlling and approaching 51% of Bitcoin's entire hashrate, which would easily allow them to commit a 51% attack on Bitcoin, thereby killing the currency by basically printing duplicate Bitcoins.

There is no incentive for any mining pool to undermine the network because of the economic and social forces behind it.

4) The most damming evidence of Bitcoin's certain death as of right now(excluding Satoshi's huge 1million Bitcoin stash) however, is Willy. Willy was a bot used on the MtGox exchange from since back in 2012. Willy was illegaly using false fiat funds to buy large quantities of Bitcoin's every hour for days and months on end, which was what led to All of Bitcoin's previous bullruns, as well as dumps when Willy reversed the trend and started selling Bitcoins. Basically, Bitcoin's entire price rise history and dumps, is due not to the traders, not to the news, but to a bot using fake money to buy bitcoins and sell them at a profit. Based upon that information, one can only guess that Bitcoin will never see a $1000+ price per coin again. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

The volatility will fade out when market users will out number the total of trader. Until then expect a lot of volatility and manipulation.

If any of your points was fatal ones. Bitcoin would be already dead. Also, altcoins don't even address these.

No. I think Satoshi well deserve his stash for taking a lot of his time creating bitcoin. Otherwise there would be no bitcoin and even no altcoin at all. - That's insane. Yes, Satoshi deserves reward and praise for having created the first cryptocurrency, but he effectively premined Bitcoin. His 1million Bitcoin stash is a serious risk to any would be investor, and is what probably stops most investors from putting any money in Bitcoin.

The bitcoin foundation has no authority over the bitcoin protocol so they can do whatever they want. End of story - In case you didn't know, The Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, and they sponsor a couple of the main Bitcoin websites. They effectively control what goes into Bitcoin and what doesn't, you cannot argue against that.

There is no incentive for any mining pool to undermine the network because of the economic and social forces behind it. - That's not true at all. Could the same be said for MtGox? It was likely a inside job, do you think social and economic forces governed their stealing thousands of their user's Bitcoin? No, so then why think differently about mining pools?




The volatility will fade out when market users will out number the total of trader. Until then expect a lot of volatility and manipulation. - The volatility has to do in part because a lot of Bitcoin users don't use Bitcoin as they "should". Ever seen the term, " HODL" around here? Yea, that's not how a currency should be used, they're using Bitcoin more like an asset or a comodity. Basically, Bitcoin is not a currency as of right now, it's not being used a currency, just as a speculative investment.


If any of your points was fatal ones. Bitcoin would be already dead. Also, altcoins don't even address these. - My points are would-be-fatal. Meaning if any of them came into fruition, it would be the end of Bitcoin. Even a small % of Satoshi's stash being sold would drop the Bitcoin price beyond repair or a mining pool doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin for enormous profit. Also, some altcoins do address those points, with some having paramterer changes so a 51% attack cannot be carried out the same way it could for Bitcoin if someone owned 51% of the hashing power, or by not having their developer effectively premine 1million coins, or not having a foundation consist of shady individuals.

[QuestionAuthority]

I got your reason altcoins will succeed right here.

http://tinyurl.com/lnoekb9

[FastForwarded]

If an altcoin has a serious advantage over bitcoin, we can most likely implement that feature into bitcoin and just fork it. But with the strength of the bitcoin network the new coin would have to have a serious advantage.

I don't believe this would happen. Many altcoins specialize in fields that would not sit well with certain people, espeially in political settings. Bitcoin incorporating something potentially "shady" would be met huge backlash.

[mbaeichapareiko]

haha   dogecoin.  that was funny.


You must agree btc is the grandfather of all alt coins.  In order to get most alt coins you have to go through btc, and btc is the largest network supercomputer on the planet right now.  

the infrastructure is set.  


there are better cleaner earth friendly ways to heat up your house and run your car,   the petroleum infrastructure is set.    (bad analogy) but you get the point.  nevertheless, btc is much cleaner than all the energy costs with running all the bank buildings of the world.  And the security is very very high.  mtgox was hacked,  not bit coin.  Have a talk  with Andreas if you ever get the chance.   He'll break it down for you real nice.  real nice.  

  

[Envrin]

If you're trying to prove a case for the superiority of altcoins versus bitcoin, you're really not doing a good job.  How are any of those four factors you mentioned different in altcoins out there?  You don't think the developers of various altcoins don't have their own massive stashes they're hoarding?  If they get the traction and media attention bitcoin has, you don't think some of their business owners / foundation members aren't going to have the spotlight and cops attention attracted to them?  You don't think they're susceptible to network-wide hacking attempts, or fake bots manipulating the price?

Sorry dude, but you failed at proving why altcoins are superior.  Especially considering 99.5% of all altcoins out there run off bitcoin's code.

[cryptomanik]

I got your reason altcoins will succeed right here.

http://[Suspicious link removed]/lnoekb9

Lol.. If other altcoins will succeed, then why cant bitcoin succeed?