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Author Topic: It's because of crazy people like this...  (Read 3118 times)
MoonShadow
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May 15, 2011, 12:05:36 AM
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...that I don't think that anarchists on this forum, or anywhere else, have any realistic argument.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/05/04/2011-05-04_virginia_girl_found_eating_herself_in_cage_in_mobile_home_parents_brian_and_shan.html?obref=obinsite

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 15, 2011, 12:12:49 AM
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And I don't eat apples because penguins huddle together for warmth. What're you getting at?

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May 15, 2011, 12:14:47 AM
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Non sequitur.

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May 15, 2011, 12:19:43 AM
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I don't find it surprising in the least.  If we continue on the path we currently are this is going to be our society in not too distant future
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May 15, 2011, 12:30:51 AM
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And I don't eat apples because penguins huddle together for warmth. What're you getting at?

My point here is that people like this exist.  And it is because of this fact that the collective, and hopefully restrained, legitimate use of force exists.  To identify, capture and contain sociopaths with criminal tendencies.

I cannot accept the arguement, however rational, that a society of entirely self-governed people can exist peacefully or sustainablely until there is a solution for this kind of person.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 15, 2011, 12:37:03 AM
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People may be born with all sorts of tendencies, but I do not believe this kind of people would exist if they had the chance not to. They are simply conditioned to be such
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May 15, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
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People may be born with all sorts of tendencies, but I do not believe this kind of people would exist if they had the chance not to. They are simply conditioned to be such

How do you figure that these people are conditioned to keep one child in a cage and possiblely kill another and bury it next to the shed?  Do you think that they were raised this way?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 15, 2011, 12:51:54 AM
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And I don't eat apples because penguins huddle together for warmth. What're you getting at?

My point here is that people like this exist.  And it is because of this fact that the collective, and hopefully restrained, legitimate use of force exists.  To identify, capture and contain sociopaths with criminal tendencies.

I cannot accept the arguement, however rational, that a society of entirely self-governed people can exist peacefully or sustainablely until there is a solution for this kind of person.

Clearly this is a government failure. In the world you are describing, these people would have become police officers.

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May 15, 2011, 12:55:47 AM
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I think we are all animals and put ourselves first. The only thing that prevents society from such things is moral and environment in which they live. What today's "you are the best, you are worth it, you are individual" culture does is makes us compromise our moral more and more. This is just an extreme case of that and isolation from general society where other factors like fear of punishment against such things exist.
For majority of people, especially with strong ego, it is quite difficult to grasp that what they perceive as reality is only in their heads and it can be very different.
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May 15, 2011, 01:04:37 AM
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My point here is that people like this exist.  And it is because of this fact that the collective, and hopefully restrained, legitimate use of force exists.  To identify, capture and contain sociopaths with criminal tendencies.

We don't need a government for that. There will still be collective self-defense under anarchism. The only difference is that it will be paid for voluntarily and there will be competition among services.

Of course, in other cases there will be firms that take cases like this on contingency. They will rescue the child and then demand restitution from the parents for their services. You really need to delve into the literature and start looking for solutions to problems instead of just settling on whatever objections you can come up with.
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May 15, 2011, 03:09:06 AM
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My point here is that people like this exist.  And it is because of this fact that the collective, and hopefully restrained, legitimate use of force exists.  To identify, capture and contain sociopaths with criminal tendencies.

We don't need a government for that. There will still be collective self-defense under anarchism. The only difference is that it will be paid for voluntarily and there will be competition among services.

Of course, in other cases there will be firms that take cases like this on contingency. They will rescue the child and then demand restitution from the parents for their services. You really need to delve into the literature and start looking for solutions to problems instead of just settling on whatever objections you can come up with.

I still consider private security/defense and 'phyles' to be sort of government in it's own right.  These kind of solutions aren't anarchy.  BTW, I've read many of the documents that anarchists point me to, and this is one objection that I've never seen well handled.  I'm not saying that what we have is any good at identifying criminal sociopaths either, but once identified the system we have does a very good job of punishment.  That is, in fact, the one thing that it's good at.

Even in the 'phyles' type of voluntary minarchy described in The Diamond Age, a phyle wouldn't have the right to take these children away from their parents, even if they had the motivation.  At a minimum, the parents would have to be compensated for the children taken from them, because in that imaginary system children are legally and economicly the property of their parents.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 15, 2011, 03:40:04 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

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May 15, 2011, 03:49:29 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

You said it like it's a bad thing. Sociopaths are way better at making rational decisions
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May 15, 2011, 03:51:20 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

You said it like it's a bad thing. Sociopaths are way better at making rational decisions

If what you need is someone who is good at killing and oppressing people, then yes, a sociopath is ideal. Personally I think that's a bad thing.

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May 15, 2011, 03:54:29 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

You said it like it's a bad thing. Sociopaths are way better at making rational decisions

If what you need is someone who is good at killing and oppressing people, then yes, a sociopath is ideal. Personally I think that's a bad thing.

You are mixing psychopaths with sociopaths
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May 15, 2011, 04:00:34 AM
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These kind of solutions aren't anarchy.

That's your definition of anarchy. My definition differs from yours. I'd prefer to avoid debates over which definitions are "right" and instead focus on the meaning behind the words. I consider anarchy perfectly capable of having all sorts of elaborate rules and structures, as long as they are all voluntary with violence only ever being used in self-defense.

because in that imaginary system children are legally and economicly the property of their parents

Well, there's your problem!
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May 15, 2011, 04:09:07 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

You said it like it's a bad thing. Sociopaths are way better at making rational decisions

If what you need is someone who is good at killing and oppressing people, then yes, a sociopath is ideal. Personally I think that's a bad thing.

You are mixing psychopaths with sociopaths

I always get those mixed up. I have a hard time determining the real-world difference between them.

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MoonShadow
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May 15, 2011, 04:54:08 AM
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The current system isn't that great at punishing criminal sociopaths. It's much better at putting them in power.

You said it like it's a bad thing. Sociopaths are way better at making rational decisions

I suppose that depends on how one defines "criminal".  The halls of prisons are filled with unsuccessful  and ignorant sociopaths, alongside the non-violent drug offenders.  While the halls of Congress and the Pentagon are filled with successful and intelligent sociopaths.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 15, 2011, 06:21:51 AM
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Quote from: Creighto
How do you figure that these people are conditioned to keep one child in a cage and possiblely kill another and bury it next to the shed?  Do you think that they were raised this way?

Quote
"He went to church and everything."

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_children/dt21_18a.html

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
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May 15, 2011, 06:36:02 AM
 #20

Socialpath and pyschopath are crafty people really good at imitating normal people, and they're not necessary criminals..

Congressmen, I bet are just mostly normal people with 1 or 2 percents pyschopath mixed in.t

When we lack economic rationality, we tend to let insitutions incentives to drive destructive behaviors.

Insanity is what kill humanity, not a secret cabal of evil socialpath.

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