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Author Topic: The fall of Bitcoin nodes. Why nobody talks about it ?  (Read 6826 times)
Cryptowatch.com
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October 25, 2014, 06:05:46 AM
 #61

iam running a full node. its a nice way to support the network. i guess when the price rises again we will see more full nodes. and also we sill see some improvements with the sync of the bitcoin core client (3days to 3 hours).

25 GB is not a problem in my view.


2 Terabyte - 90 USD:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Station-External-Desktop-Drive/dp/B00C9TEL46/ref=sr_1_1/275-3057177-7963732?ie=UTF8&qid=1414215364&sr=8-1&keywords=2+terabyte

There's always the torrent method of getting the block chain:
https://bitcoin.org/bin/blockchain/
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bitnanigans
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October 25, 2014, 06:27:58 AM
 #62

I would say it's probably because of the size of the blockchain. New adopters won't want to invest so much time in download over 30GB as there are no incentives/benefits whatsoever to running a Bitcoin node. So that leaves the people that truly believe in Bitcoin. I used to run a node on my notebook, but not anymore, since my connection wasn't fast enough for the size of the blockchain. Now, I have a couple nodes running on VPS systems, since they're relatively cheap to run.
Cryptowatch.com
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October 25, 2014, 06:46:43 AM
 #63

I would say it's probably because of the size of the blockchain. New adopters won't want to invest so much time in download over 30GB as there are no incentives/benefits whatsoever to running a Bitcoin node. So that leaves the people that truly believe in Bitcoin. I used to run a node on my notebook, but not anymore, since my connection wasn't fast enough for the size of the blockchain. Now, I have a couple nodes running on VPS systems, since they're relatively cheap to run.


Well, you should consider the fact that we're here participating in a system where we run our own infrastructure, providing a payment network where nobody simply can block a payment or an account because they don't like you.

If you want to use bitcoin, you can use a light wallet, or bitcoin core, or a webwallet. The safest solution is to keep private keys in your own posession. If you chose to run the Bitcoin Core, then the initial sync might take some time. Perhaps 1 to 2 days. But I don't see how that's a big problem. You install the software, and then let i run till it has completed synching. Most people these days have solid broadband internet connections, and most harddrives are 500Gb and up. Once you have synched the blockchain, you only need to connect sporadically to keep up to date with the blocks, or just let it run on your computer..

If you're more dedicated, go for a vps or dedicated server.

People go to banks all the time and initiate the process of making a bank account. First you have to physically move in meatspace to the designated branch. Which can be stressful enough in itself. Then you have to wait in line, being exposed for all kinds of unnecessary chatter and viruses and bacteria that other humans carry around.

After you get to the counter, you have to present your ID, this is photocopied, and then you go through whatever process the bank require to open the account. Then you have to reverse the process of getting physically to the bank, and once the most preferable geolocation of your representation in meatspace is restored, your home, you have to wait for days before you finally get whatever card the bank wants to offer you.

Finally you can use your bank account.

In addition, if you do something nefarious, like trading at localbitcoins (oh gosh - you're such a criminal!), or if you just do whatever that's outside getting a paycheck from your employer and shopping at main stream shopping centers and approved online stores like amazon, you risk your entire account being discontinued.

In addition, the bank will know about every purchase you do. And the statements on your bank account will be given to the tax-authorities every year. And if you happen to have a relative outside the borders of your nation (oh my gosh - you must be a terrorist financier!) don't be surprised if the transaction is delayed for days and days until it's finally cleared, no mentioning how much stress that causes for the recipient.

So what we have here, is some of the best opportunities in human history to transact easily and quickly between free individuals on planet earth, without getting an anal examination by our overlords, and although it usually takes less time to download the blockchain than to get the payment card from your evil bank which might cause any kind of troubles on a bankers whim, people still complain..!

Synching the blockchain is really no problem, you just install the software, and then it all happens by itself, you just wait. And while you wait, you can do all kinds of interesting things, like for instance call a friend and go for a hike in the woods. Bring a tent and fishing equipment. I promise, once you get home, you're now part of the most cutting edge international financial payment system in existence!

allgoodthings1
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October 25, 2014, 11:56:08 AM
 #64

Written eloquently, Crypto. Thanks for bringing things back into perspective.

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October 25, 2014, 02:36:21 PM
 #65

I will be running my node until the day that Bitcoin dies.
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October 25, 2014, 02:44:26 PM
 #66

I will be running my node until the day that Bitcoin dies.

Technically, as long as your node is up bitcoin can't be considered dead Tongue.
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October 26, 2014, 07:47:34 AM
 #67

Both of those are insufficient to run a full node. The 30GB one will be forced to shutdown in a month or two, since the current blockchain is nearly 30GB already.

Sorry, I was looking for the cheapest and I didn't look at the HDD.
I personally use this one :



It is damn super fast and mining Monero with it greatly reduce the bill.
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October 26, 2014, 04:02:17 PM
 #68

I will be running my node until the day that Bitcoin dies.

Technically, as long as your node is up bitcoin can't be considered dead Tongue.

Ha. good point  Smiley

I guess I was trying to say that my node will be running for a long time.  The bandwidth isn't a big deal.  Right not it is about 100 Gb/month upload and ~30 Gb harddrive space.  I'm running my on a older computer that powered partially by solar during the day so actual power draw is minimal.
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October 26, 2014, 10:16:09 PM
 #69


With a bit of knowledge, one can launch over a thousand nodes around the world via VPS and the help of bash script, in few hours.

Yes it is a problem and solving it is damn easy.

What we can start is to run a full node at home and at work (if possible) and also run some VPS.
If most people do it, problem solved so just do it.


Is it just me or are most people on this post missing the point?

The problem is not whether we can host more nodes or not. The problem is that it is not being done, even if it is easy. Why? because there's no incentive for most people, in fact there's negative incentives to do it. Aka blockchain bloating and no immediate benefit.

The idea that saying things like "people ought to support the network our of a none financial sense of reciprocity" is sadly naive, even if fair.

Mining is also more centralized than ever and this is becoming worse over time with not expectation of reversing. Right? Since all the rewards go to miners, node hosting becomes charity.

How do we solve this?

Well, the first question is, does it matter?  What are we losing with the centralization of nodes? is it a worse problem than the centralization of mining?

if we decide more nodes is better than less, than one option is to say, something like 10% of mining rewards per block go to a random node, or are distributed among x random nodes.

Sort of like Darkcoin's Master Nodes are financially rewarded.

Would this centralize mining more or make some miners go out of business? I don't know. I frankly think Mining is unnecessary, Proof of Stake and similar innovations have already solved this problem, or atleast made it less of a problem.  particularly with appropriate early distribution of funds.
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October 26, 2014, 10:17:42 PM
 #70


Why Nodes numbers dropping so fast recently ?


Always 7000 nodes here ... no problem : https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/
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October 27, 2014, 01:00:53 AM
 #71

Both of those are insufficient to run a full node. The 30GB one will be forced to shutdown in a month or two, since the current blockchain is nearly 30GB already.

Sorry, I was looking for the cheapest and I didn't look at the HDD.
I personally use this one :



It is damn super fast and mining Monero with it greatly reduce the bill.

$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS


 
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TIDEX



superresistant
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October 27, 2014, 07:29:49 AM
 #72

Both of those are insufficient to run a full node. The 30GB one will be forced to shutdown in a month or two, since the current blockchain is nearly 30GB already.
Sorry, I was looking for the cheapest and I didn't look at the HDD.
I personally use this one :

It is damn super fast and mining Monero with it greatly reduce the bill.
$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS

The problem are the 30GB required and more to come. If you have a 40GB HDD for $15 per year, please share it because we never heard about it.
Like I said, I use my VPS to mine Monero. For a long time I was making a profit from it, now it helps me reduce the bill.
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October 27, 2014, 08:46:12 AM
 #73

no one can make a change to it Cry
Cryptowatch.com
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October 27, 2014, 08:48:00 AM
 #74

no one can make a change to it Cry

Hm.. I've toyed with the tought of mounting disk space over the network on VPS'es with too little disk-space. Would that be feasible? Smiley
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October 27, 2014, 09:03:50 AM
 #75

$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS
Yeah, you can get a nice dedicated for $40 these days... Linode is way overpriced.

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October 27, 2014, 09:08:59 AM
 #76

$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS
Yeah, you can get a nice dedicated for $40 these days... Linode is way overpriced.

I just use Linode and DigitalOcean. What are the way cheaper and better VPS that you talk about ?

I remember one really cheap VPS, I ordered one to try, 2 months after the company has gone bankrupt and I lost my money.
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October 28, 2014, 05:06:05 AM
 #77

$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS
Yeah, you can get a nice dedicated for $40 these days... Linode is way overpriced.
I have seen people offering to run a node in the name of someone who pays them as little as .04 per year - they would essentially be doing all the 'legwork' to running the node, but the buyer would essentially be covering all the financial costs


 
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TIDEX



hashman
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October 28, 2014, 11:32:45 AM
 #78


Why Nodes numbers dropping so fast recently ?


Always 7000 nodes here ... no problem : https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/

Since your post down to 6500.. 
Cryptowatch.com
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October 28, 2014, 12:19:42 PM
 #79


Why Nodes numbers dropping so fast recently ?


Always 7000 nodes here ... no problem : https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/

Since your post down to 6500.. 

I'm not sure if the bitnodes script sees all nodes either.

But I've never seen anyone address how many nodes should the network really have to be big and strong? Do we need 10000? 100000? More geo-distribution?
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October 28, 2014, 11:11:44 PM
 #80

$40 a month is a lot to spend on a full node. There are much cheaper options out there (some as low as $15 per year). As of now, you really do not need a very high performance computer in order to run a full node so there is no real reason to get such a high performance VPS
Yeah, you can get a nice dedicated for $40 these days... Linode is way overpriced.

I just use Linode and DigitalOcean. What are the way cheaper and better VPS that you talk about ?

I remember one really cheap VPS, I ordered one to try, 2 months after the company has gone bankrupt and I lost my money.

What I was saying is that for $40 you can get a much better cheap dedicated than what vps providers offer. I just checked and Linode is now cheaper than it used to be, it seems competition from Digitalocean made them rethink their plans and pricing. So forget what I said about linode being "way overpriced"

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