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Author Topic: Altcoins are killing Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as a whole  (Read 9534 times)
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November 03, 2014, 11:59:48 AM
 #141

First time i know bitcoin, I do not care about altcoin, which i only pursue bitcoin, but as time goes by, I became interested and started looking for altcoin and of course, to exchange into bitcoin Grin so I think altcoin not kill bitcoin but only innovation development of cryptocurrency, just my opinion Cheesy

One of the Altcoins might become BTC 2.0

That's possible, but people seem to forget that the Bitcoin protocol can incoporate every function ever made up by other altcoins, and I do mean EVERYTHING. So alts are just trial and errors or succeses, to which it can en can't be incoporated in the Bitcoin protocol.

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November 03, 2014, 12:12:02 PM
 #142

But what can we do? We can't prevent people from creating altcoins

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November 03, 2014, 12:14:38 PM
 #143

First time i know bitcoin, I do not care about altcoin, which i only pursue bitcoin, but as time goes by, I became interested and started looking for altcoin and of course, to exchange into bitcoin Grin so I think altcoin not kill bitcoin but only innovation development of cryptocurrency, just my opinion Cheesy

One of the Altcoins might become BTC 2.0

That's possible, but people seem to forget that the Bitcoin protocol can incoporate every function ever made up by other altcoins, and I do mean EVERYTHING. So alts are just trial and errors or succeses, to which it can en can't be incoporated in the Bitcoin protocol.

You're entirely wrong and know so little about altcoins. The Bitcoin protocol Can NOT incorporate every function an altcoin has. Altcoin that do Not use Bitcoins code, and/or greatly modified Bitcoin's source code cannot have their features copied into Bitcoin. This includes all Cryptonote coins which don't use Bitcoin's source code at all (Monero etc), and all the others that don't use Bitcoin's source code(NXT etc)
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November 03, 2014, 12:29:18 PM
 #144

But what can we do? We can't prevent people from creating altcoins

That's exactly the point. We do not 'need' to do anything. Our preferences for a currency will do the trick. The Bitcoin network will compete with other networks. There does not have to be one (this is our current thinking within a nation state with a single currency).

Accept the fact that there will be absolute freedom.

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November 03, 2014, 12:38:19 PM
 #145

But what can we do? We can't prevent people from creating altcoins

That's exactly the point. We do not 'need' to do anything. Our preferences for a currency will do the trick. The Bitcoin network will compete with other networks. There does not have to be one (this is our current thinking within a nation state with a single currency).

Accept the fact that there will be absolute freedom.

Exactly. All we need to do is ignore the worthless alts. The claim on this thread that alts are killing bitcoin is also false, so disregard it completely.

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November 03, 2014, 03:34:44 PM
 #146

But what can we do? We can't prevent people from creating altcoins

That is right. The thing is people still think they can copy what bitcoin just did.
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November 07, 2014, 09:53:57 AM
 #147

First time i know bitcoin, I do not care about altcoin, which i only pursue bitcoin, but as time goes by, I became interested and started looking for altcoin and of course, to exchange into bitcoin Grin so I think altcoin not kill bitcoin but only innovation development of cryptocurrency, just my opinion Cheesy

One of the Altcoins might become BTC 2.0

That's possible, but people seem to forget that the Bitcoin protocol can incoporate every function ever made up by other altcoins, and I do mean EVERYTHING. So alts are just trial and errors or succeses, to which it can en can't be incoporated in the Bitcoin protocol.

You're entirely wrong and know so little about altcoins. The Bitcoin protocol Can NOT incorporate every function an altcoin has. Altcoin that do Not use Bitcoins code, and/or greatly modified Bitcoin's source code cannot have their features copied into Bitcoin. This includes all Cryptonote coins which don't use Bitcoin's source code at all (Monero etc), and all the others that don't use Bitcoin's source code(NXT etc)

It's 0's and 1's, everything can be incorporated, only in another code, don't be naive Grin

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November 07, 2014, 02:04:53 PM
 #148

Altcoins are good for Bitcoin because they bring competitive pressure, and are excellent working testbeds for design changes. Bitcoin developers can easily adopt core improvements after they've been thoroughly tested on competing blockchains.

For example, in a few days the first multi-threaded version of the Bitcoin core will be released in Canada. Anyone with a thorough knowledge of the existing Bitcoin code will know how vast of an improvement this will be over the existing design.

http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/canadian-scientist-cleans-up-bitcoin-slop/

Then, after the fixes have been successfully tested on the competing blockchain, they can be brought over to Bitcoin.

This is just one example of how Altcoins are not only beneficial to Bitcoin, but they are in fact - crucial. Smiley

"The Internet unshackled information, Satoshi Nakamoto unshackled money. And money makes the world go round."
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November 07, 2014, 02:11:31 PM
 #149

Altcoins are good for Bitcoin because they bring competitive pressure, and are excellent working testbeds for design changes. Bitcoin developers can easily adopt core improvements after they've been thoroughly tested on competing blockchains.



True, but people here wont listen to reason. They just want to hysterically scream SHITCOINS ARE BAD and put their fingers in their ears. Saying that, most are shitcoins and not worth the time of day, but they can or could be useful.
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November 07, 2014, 02:36:48 PM
 #150

The altmarket is the biggest suppression when it comes to Bitcoin mass adoption. To date, there should rightfully only be a handful of altcoins available, specifically, those that actually feature innovations and/or improve upon blockchain technology.

But no, instead we have thousands of 'shitcoins' made strictly, for the most part, to scam investors for a quick buck.

Adding a new currency was initially limited to the governments throughout the world. Now we gave that same power to every capable individual. And we as a whole, have produced one decent 'currency' per hundreds of shitcoins produced per month.


When I was introduced to Bitcoin, i did more research into cryptocurrency. Not long after, without even trying, I basically knew so much about altcoins...specifically, the scams. I heard more news about Altcoin scams than I did about actual bitcoin news.

This is the kind of crap that will ruin Crypto. A huge percentage  of BTC owners dont hold or invest in BTC. They use it to trade via trading against shitcoins. A majority of BTC holders dont really care about if Bitcoin goes 'to the moon'. They just want to choose wisely between a 'short' or a 'long'.

Your average basement dweller can produce a new altcoin in a few hours and dedicate the remainder of the day to create a few graphics, hype up some new 'innovation', and the sheeple traders follow blindly. Next thing you know, hidden premine. Dev earns $5-50k for a days work. And on to the next one.

This is crypto. Only a tiny percentage actually use bitcoin as a currency instead of just a trading token. The majority are only in it for trading against shitcoins.

Shut down all Bitcoin exchanges save only those keeping ONLY BTC/USD, and you will see a true rise to BTC. As long as the alt market is present, Bitcoin will go nowhere but a steady downtrend in terms of value.

The majority of the bitcoin community is the reason why Bitcoin will never be truly become the new currency as some believe.

I'll come back to this when BTC is trading @ $250 ea. by XMAS, and $120 by the end of winter.

RIP Tim Draper.


what you're saying is true to a point.  but remember mainstream adoption won't happen over night..  not with the banksters around.  it is a long hard road ahead for btc even without the hundreds of useless altcoins.

in fact, i don't mind btc having its own ecosystem of altcoins revolving around it.

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November 09, 2014, 01:30:30 PM
 #151

The altmarket is the biggest suppression when it comes to Bitcoin mass adoption. To date, there should rightfully only be a handful of altcoins available, specifically, those that actually feature innovations and/or improve upon blockchain technology.

But no, instead we have thousands of 'shitcoins' made strictly, for the most part, to scam investors for a quick buck.

Adding a new currency was initially limited to the governments throughout the world. Now we gave that same power to every capable individual. And we as a whole, have produced one decent 'currency' per hundreds of shitcoins produced per month.


When I was introduced to Bitcoin, i did more research into cryptocurrency. Not long after, without even trying, I basically knew so much about altcoins...specifically, the scams. I heard more news about Altcoin scams than I did about actual bitcoin news.

This is the kind of crap that will ruin Crypto. A huge percentage  of BTC owners dont hold or invest in BTC. They use it to trade via trading against shitcoins. A majority of BTC holders dont really care about if Bitcoin goes 'to the moon'. They just want to choose wisely between a 'short' or a 'long'.

Your average basement dweller can produce a new altcoin in a few hours and dedicate the remainder of the day to create a few graphics, hype up some new 'innovation', and the sheeple traders follow blindly. Next thing you know, hidden premine. Dev earns $5-50k for a days work. And on to the next one.

This is crypto. Only a tiny percentage actually use bitcoin as a currency instead of just a trading token. The majority are only in it for trading against shitcoins.

Shut down all Bitcoin exchanges save only those keeping ONLY BTC/USD, and you will see a true rise to BTC. As long as the alt market is present, Bitcoin will go nowhere but a steady downtrend in terms of value.

The majority of the bitcoin community is the reason why Bitcoin will never be truly become the new currency as some believe.

I'll come back to this when BTC is trading @ $250 ea. by XMAS, and $120 by the end of winter.

RIP Tim Draper.


what you're saying is true to a point.  but remember mainstream adoption won't happen over night..  not with the banksters around.  it is a long hard road ahead for btc even without the hundreds of useless altcoins.

in fact, i don't mind btc having its own ecosystem of altcoins revolving around it.

If we can have some adoption with BTC and other altcoin, it would be even better.
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November 09, 2014, 08:08:33 PM
 #152

It appears all you know about Bitcoin is from staying in the altcoin section too long. You definitely do not know the economics, finance, legal issues and mining facts involved with Bitcoin. Posts like yours reminds us all how far we have made it in this Revolution. You should really learn some basic facts about what's really going on here and you may finally get it.

Here's the speech:(3rd times a charm)

Bitcoin itself had in the past been vulnerable to very similar things that you said happened and now see happen with altcoins these days, but fortunately THAT WINDOW IS NOW CLOSED.

Part of the definition of the bitcoin protocol includes the checking of the proof of work put into various block chains, and then choosing the one with the most work. Bitcoin has more proof-of-work in its blockchain than any other competing cryptocurrency, and so by definition it must be the one chosen, and all others ignored.

Altcoins are all very similar to Bitcoin: there is a block chain to store transactions, a consensus mechanism to build the block chain, and a cryptographic protocol to register transactions. Some prominent examples are PPCoin, Primecoin, Litecoin, and Freicoin.

Some altcoins incorporate interesting new ideas, but there is an essential feature of Bitcoin which they all lack. It is not a matter of its technology, but rather of history and community. Quite simply, a medium of exchange that is more widely accepted on the market is more useful than one which is not. This is known as the network effect. An initial imbalance between two nearly equal media of exchange will benefit whichever is more widely accepted until a single one overwhelms the rest. There is no limit to this effect: ultimately one would always expect a single currency to overcome all its competitors.

Because it was started earlier and has had a greater opportunity to grow and attract users, Bitcoin has a market larger by a wide margin than all the markets of all the altcoins put together, and this makes it vastly more useful as a currency. To defeat Bitcoin, an altcoin would require not just superior technology, but such vastly superior technology as to be an advance over Bitcoin comparable to the advance Bitcoin represents over fiat currency. Furthermore, a truly great innovation would much better serve people by being incorporated into future versions of Bitcoin rather than by requiring them to switch to something else. Indeed, the people who have proposed new ideas that are actually good, such as Zerocoin and mini-blockchain, did not develop their own currencies around them, but have simply described their usefulness as features.

The Bitcoin community is not just overwhelmingly larger but of overwhelmingly better quality as well. Bitcoin is surrounded by real entrepreneurs working hard to create new and useful services for Bitcoin. Altcoins are surrounded by loud-mouthed pretenders with irrational hopes of duplicating Nakamoto's success. This does not mean that there is anything intrinsically wrong with altcoins: the problem is simply that once Bitcoin exists, then there is no additional value, from a monetary standpoint, of creating knock-offs. Can anyone really expect to create something of value by rereleasing Bitcoin under a new name and with a few tiny changes to its source code? What makes Bitcoin great cannot easily be duplicated. Thus, while the Bitcoin community matures and grows as more and more entrepreneurs are attracted to its potential, the altcoin communities can only whine for attention.

For a new currency to take bitcoins place it would have to represent a significant improvement over bitcoin, or bitcoin would have to first FAIL before this could happen. So the question is not will bitcoin become obsolete, but will (your proposed new coin) overtake bitcoin? I don’t see any reason to believe that Altcoins represents a fundamental new innovation with meaningful improved functionality.

In physics, we learn about the concept of entropy. Entropy is often described as “chaos”, “randomness”, or “disorder”. To simplify quantum mechanics as much as possible, imagine a basket with a line drawn down the middle, and throw some balls into the basket. If all the balls are on one side of the line, that is an ordered state and has low entropy. If the balls are spread across both sides then it has higher entropy.

Now, let us take the concept of entropy and apply it to cryptocurrencies. We can imagine each cryptocurrency created has a possibility that some value can be placed within it. If all possible value is placed in bitcoin, and none in litecoin or altcoin, then this is a low entropy state. The laws of thermodynamics dictate that entropy in a system should always increase. So we should expect the total cryptocurrency value to be spread among all the possible altcoins.

Going back to our example of balls in a basket, one can easily get all the balls onto one side of the line simply by tilting the basket. This represents the concept of enthalpy, or energy within the system. Just as gravity pulls the balls onto one side of the basket, enthalpy can pull things into a higher entropic state. The most proof-of-work has been put into bitcoin, and so it takes higher energy to put any value into an altcoin.

From an entropy standpoint, there will always be alternate currencies, and the value assigned to them will always be greater than zero. But from an enthalpy standpoint, bitcoin is favored over altcoins, so the total value of each altcoin will remain very low compared to bitcoins.

^ 100% agreed.

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November 09, 2014, 11:52:30 PM
 #153

Altcoins are good for Bitcoin because they bring competitive pressure, and are excellent working testbeds for design changes. Bitcoin developers can easily adopt core improvements after they've been thoroughly tested on competing blockchains.

For example, in a few days the first multi-threaded version of the Bitcoin core will be released in Canada. Anyone with a thorough knowledge of the existing Bitcoin code will know how vast of an improvement this will be over the existing design.

http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/canadian-scientist-cleans-up-bitcoin-slop/

Then, after the fixes have been successfully tested on the competing blockchain, they can be brought over to Bitcoin.

This is just one example of how Altcoins are not only beneficial to Bitcoin, but they are in fact - crucial. Smiley
There is no reason to need altcoins to test new features when there is the test net. Altcoins will allow for the devs to profit off of their coin while the test net will not.

There is also no real competition between altcoins and bitcoin. As altcoins do not bring anything of value that bitcoin cannot provide and are much less secure
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November 10, 2014, 12:02:11 AM
 #154

lol @ the alt currency homos crying about the altcoins Cheesy

Kinda funny, no offense!

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November 10, 2014, 05:27:22 AM
 #155

lol @ the alt currency homos crying about the altcoins Cheesy

Kinda funny, no offense!

Dear sir,

In your infinite display of intelligence and wisdom, as evidence of your post, you have shown me the error of my ways. From this day forward, I shall never again touch another alt coin and stay true to Bitcoin only, for fear that I will become a "homo" (since that is such a significant insult, because homosexual people really are the bane of the earth right?).

Follow me on twitter https://twitter.com/TheRealMage for Litecoin and Litecoin Association news!
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November 10, 2014, 08:34:55 AM
 #156

lol @ the alt currency homos crying about the altcoins Cheesy

Kinda funny, no offense!

 

Dear sir,

In your infinite display of intelligence and wisdom, as evidence of your post, you have shown me the error of my ways. From this day forward, I shall never again touch another alt coin and stay true to Bitcoin only, for fear that I will become a "homo" (since that is such a significant insult, because homosexual people really are the bane of the earth right?).

But Everyone knows alt coins are gay, no ?
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November 12, 2014, 04:37:10 AM
 #157

Preference is part of freedom.  Freedom is a beautiful thing.  That being said, sexual preference is a beautiful freedom just as is cryptographic preference.  There are no grounds for negative connotations there. =)

     Sincerely,

syntaks
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November 12, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
 #158

lol @ the alt currency homos crying about the altcoins Cheesy

Kinda funny, no offense!

Dear sir,

In your infinite display of intelligence and wisdom, as evidence of your post, you have shown me the error of my ways. From this day forward, I shall never again touch another alt coin and stay true to Bitcoin only, for fear that I will become a "homo" (since that is such a significant insult, because homosexual people really are the bane of the earth right?).

I don't mean like homosexuals... I mean like homos.

But I'm happy to help.  Don't worry about becoming a homo, it's a choice!

I strongly think that altcoins can play a major roll in BTC spreading.

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November 12, 2014, 06:35:43 AM
 #159

But no, instead we have thousands of 'shitcoins' made strictly, for the most part, to scam investors for a quick buck.

Whenever anything valuable/innovative is created you can be sure someone will try and create a competing fake in the attempt to turn over some easy money. All you have to do is look at the copycat stuff produced out of China on a regular basis.

But yeah, I do agree with you that a majority of altcoins serve no other use than as a pump and dump. But then again a lot of the userbase saw the whole Bitcoin idea as a get rich quick scheme.
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November 12, 2014, 01:56:32 PM
 #160

Altcoins are giving Bitcoin another great aspect, but the current wave of shitcoins has resulted in some people being disenchatned.

However, in the long run the free market will take care of bad coins. It is the rule.

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