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Author Topic: Bitcoin in space.  (Read 3810 times)
Littleshop
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May 29, 2012, 12:34:44 AM
 #41

While looking at sites featuring Peltier chips, I found this:

lol.

The ultimate questions are: Will we be heating or cooling the FPGAs? Will we be heating or cooling the satellite?

If you were mining in space, you would be cooling.  You could develop strategies for heat, maybe as I said above the mining heat could keep the rest of the satellite warm, depending on scale.  Maybe if the mining load was small enough there would be no heating or cooling and it would be balanced. 

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May 29, 2012, 12:47:27 AM
 #42

Mining is probably more complex, power-inefficient and heat-expensive than any of us are likely to get into orbit any time soon, but if all we're after is putting a network node or ten into geosync orbit, private satellites aren't all that hard to do. Expensive by most standards, sure, but you can definitely put one in orbit for the cost of a nice car :

http://realdoctorstu.com/2011/03/03/out-of-this-world-the-amateurs-guide-to-building-your-own-satellite/

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May 29, 2012, 01:41:25 AM
 #43

Direct sunlight is going to be the biggest issue in regards to cooling: http://digg.com/news/science/Why_Does_the_Space_Station_Need_an_Air_Conditioner

I'm still curious about how difficult it might be for a node to access satellite internet: http://www.vsat-systems.com/satellite-internet/how-it-works.html

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May 29, 2012, 03:49:14 AM
 #44

The cooling would require heat radiators and maybe even liquid cooling even with FPGA, but it is of course possible.  

Its -270.3celsius in space, you would need to warm up the FPGA rather than cool it.

There are very few particles in space, so even at this temperature, the vacuum acts as an insulator and the rig might overheat. If you could take the heat produced, turn it back into electricity, and use solar power, then it might become energy-efficient.

Also if the satellite is in a high enough orbit then solar radiation might impact the performance of the rig.

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May 29, 2012, 03:54:56 AM
 #45

With the recent launch of the first commercial space rocket via space x http://www.spacex.com/ I wonder at what point there will be a bitcoin node operating in a satellite so that it would bypass any government control from earth ?

Would it need a whole satellite or could it piggyback on an existing one ?

Here's what I'm thinking. Rent space on an existing satellite or purchase the cheapest one possible. Call it a sovereign nation. Send and receive deeply encrypted messages back and forth to it (note, I don't state what these messages consist of, but I'm leaning toward Klingon Love Songs). If any governing body proves that bitcoins aren't being moved via said satellite, it would be like them stating that they're purposely intercepting our transmissions, and that's a no-no. Gave the satellite a name, and have people join this sovereign nation. The money aspect would already be in place.

~Bruno~
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May 29, 2012, 04:22:57 AM
 #46

We're in luck! A couple satellites just happen to be for sale: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_50.html

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May 29, 2012, 04:32:49 AM
 #47

We're in luck! A couple satellites just happen to be for sale: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_50.html



Unfortunately, they're for sale for a reason.  Undecided

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May 29, 2012, 04:44:20 AM
 #48

The cooling would require heat radiators and maybe even liquid cooling even with FPGA, but it is of course possible.  

Its -270.3celsius in space, you would need to warm up the FPGA rather than cool it.

Wow, you're full of information aren't you?  Most of it wrong.  You just quoted an ambient temp for a nearly perfect vacuum, which is something that has no meaning.  The surface temp of any object that does not produce it's own heat is a balance point of radiation received and radiation emitted.  Outside of Earth's atmosphere and in direct sunlight, that surface temp is closer to 92 Degree Celsius.   To get anywhere near the number you quoted an object would either have to be so far away from the Sun that it was barely larger a star than any other, or permanently in the shadow of a major object that did not emit infrared heat from it's dark side.  The only reason that space could be considered 'cold' anywhere near Earth's own solar orbit, or anywhere on our side Mars, would be because the boiling point of water is below it's own freezing point, evaporating off your skin instantly and taking heat with it for as long as it lasts.  That would be the least of your worries, though.  And it has zero to do with how to regulate the temp of a space born mining rig.

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May 29, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
 #49

I've learnt more from researching things mentioned in this thread that I have all year at school. But that isn't saying much, sadly.

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May 29, 2012, 05:46:10 AM
 #50

I have no idea what you guys have been smoking there altogether.

... hmm ... thinking of it ... yeah, maybe that could work. 11M$ for getting the satellite up? Cool, that's only 1/3 of the bitcoin market cap. I would be in with 1BTC, too Smiley

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May 29, 2012, 06:12:57 AM
 #51

Of course we won't launch our own, dedicated rocket. That's totally out of the question. The goal here is to get a self sustaining computer orbiting, and preferably hashing!

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May 29, 2012, 08:24:42 AM
 #52

With the recent launch of the first commercial space rocket via space x http://www.spacex.com/ I wonder at what point there will be a bitcoin node operating in a satellite so that it would bypass any government control from earth ?

Would it need a whole satellite or could it piggyback on an existing one ?

Here's what I'm thinking. Rent space on an existing satellite or purchase the cheapest one possible. Call it a sovereign nation. Send and receive deeply encrypted messages back and forth to it (note, I don't state what these messages consist of, but I'm leaning toward Klingon Love Songs). If any governing body proves that bitcoins aren't being moved via said satellite, it would be like them stating that they're purposely intercepting our transmissions, and that's a no-no. Gave the satellite a name, and have people join this sovereign nation. The money aspect would already be in place.

~Bruno~

I like this idea but with a twist Smiley

I would slice the satellite up into 1mm or cm squares and sell each square to the "residents" for bitcoins. People could then buy and sell their "real estate" in bitcoins. Each square entitles them to citizenship in the sovereign "nation" and have a "land tax".

Maybe you could create an isp in space that is not allied with any earthly government and residents get access to it.

Im sure the pirate bay would own one of those squares and could use a .bit domain on top for redundancy Smiley

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May 29, 2012, 08:32:01 AM
 #53

If you guys are serious about actually putting any kit in space, I'd suggest that you seriously consider teaming up with the hackspace groups.

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:HackSat1

Theres also plans for a global grid of base stations for communications with the satellites.

http://shackspace.de/wiki/doku.php?id=project:hgg
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May 29, 2012, 08:41:30 AM
 #54

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/251588730/kicksat-your-personal-spacecraft-in-space  hmm


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May 29, 2012, 04:45:41 PM
 #55

I read "geo stationary" somehwere. Wouldn't it be even better to orbit the planet so people in one censored state get their transactions processed at one hour while in other such funny states at other hours?
Also if this machine is meant for any real purpose other than just for the fun of it, I don't see room for hashing other than a symbolic FPGA from our biggest sponsor.

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May 29, 2012, 04:55:30 PM
 #56

Here is a Tip Jar to make it happen.  If we collect $1000, we can pledge that into the KickSat program (the one on the kickstarter). For that we could get the Sprite dev kit and program it.  Or we could choose another way.

https://propster.me/tipjar/0c7p89m

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May 29, 2012, 05:42:30 PM
 #57

Of course we won't launch our own, dedicated rocket. That's totally out of the question. The goal here is to get a self sustaining computer orbiting, and preferably hashing!

I don't know why it would need to be hashing.  A node with a full blockchain would be good though, with some method of communicating with it.  An Amsat would work for that.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 29, 2012, 05:45:49 PM
 #58

I read "geo stationary" somehwere. Wouldn't it be even better to orbit the planet so people in one censored state get their transactions processed at one hour while in other such funny states at other hours?
Also if this machine is meant for any real purpose other than just for the fun of it, I don't see room for hashing other than a symbolic FPGA from our biggest sponsor.

Why a geosat?  Those are much more expensive for a number of reasons, and a geosat can't cover the entire earth, we would need at least three of them. 

There would be no practical method of determining which transactions originated from any particular nation, even if that were a desirable goal.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 29, 2012, 06:48:27 PM
 #59

Here is a Tip Jar to make it happen.  If we collect $1000, we can pledge that into the KickSat program (the one on the kickstarter). For that we could get the Sprite dev kit and program it.  Or we could choose another way.

https://propster.me/

I don't think we should collect anything until we at least have a plan of action that is agreed upon.

So, hashing in unnecessary, and only good for style points Tongue

I propose a computer dedicated to running the node with a redundant storage medium obviously able to operate in space. I'm not sure whether HDD will work in space, so if not a HDD raid then SSD. It would be nice to have a hundred terabytes or so, so ensure this will be able to hold the entire chain. Who has calculations for how big it will be in 10,50,100 years?

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May 29, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
 #60

Well KickSat won't work for this. You can run your own code, but only very limited C code. And, they will be fired into low altitude orbit and will burn up after a few weeks.

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