Who here is shorting Moneros?

[thejaytiesto]

While shorting is risky, there is also potential for massive gains, nothing to be laughed at.

not really true about the massive gain, with all those tiny slippages, unless you move something like 1k-10k bitcoin....

Using futures at Okcoin.com people can utilize up to 20x leverage.  It also means people can trade with smaller accounts.  And it means you're able to double up on a 5% move.  Some people are wrong but others having been immensely profitable.

Ive never used leverage. If you use leverage, does it mean that if the price goes down, you can be on debt? I don't like that, thats why i always avoided it, i dont want to owe money to some broker.

[chriswen]

While shorting is risky, there is also potential for massive gains, nothing to be laughed at.

not really true about the massive gain, with all those tiny slippages, unless you move something like 1k-10k bitcoin....

Using futures at Okcoin.com people can utilize up to 20x leverage.  It also means people can trade with smaller accounts.  And it means you're able to double up on a 5% move.  Some people are wrong but others having been immensely profitable.

Ive never used leverage. If you use leverage, does it mean that if the price goes down, you can be on debt? I don't like that, thats why i always avoided it, i dont want to owe money to some broker.

It's impossible to go in debt because its practically impossible for them to collect on debt.

There's only something called forced liquidations.  Bad thing about that is you lose your position.

That's why using 10x with a part of your balance may be better suited sometimes.

Leverage can be used to gamble and lose money but it can also be used as a tool to augment your trading balance when you have a bit more confidence in a market direction.

And on okcoin you can short and long which means you can profit from the price going either up or down.

[Hfertig]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

[mrhelpful]

im shorting bitcoin whenever I see a huge PR potential lol.

but outside from that, im holding and buying while it drops. if you have large sums of coin, youre always going to be buying back in at a cheaper price at the same time while youre selling them.

[inca]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

For a supposed early adopter that is a bizarre statement.

Sounds like your shorters dream has recently become a nightmare.

[Amph]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

shorting with a variations of 5-6 usd at best, isn't like a dream at all, unless they are leveraging massively(borrowed from others shorters), there is no gain to be made already if take into account the fees...

[chriswen]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

shorting with a variations of 5-6 usd at best, isn't like a dream at all, unless they are leveraging massively(borrowed from others shorters), there is no gain to be made already if take into account the fees...

What on earth are you talking about?

I haven't been day trading for that long, lots of holding.  But it clearly was a shorters dream.

From 1200-200 that's a 85% drop.  And you can use 3x leverage on Bitfinex.  Up to 20x leverage on okcoin.  And if you were really good you'd have kept increasing your position each time and you'd have really snowballed.

And there are a few different ways of shorting.  You can short by borrowing bitcoins through swaps.  You are not borrowing from shorters.  You are borrowing from Bitcoin holders for a small interest payment.

And you can also short through futures.  You enter a contract with another person.  That other person wants to long.  And there have been a lot of bullish people who have longed all the way down.

And I don't see how you can say that there was no gains to be made after accounting for fees.

[inca]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

shorting with a variations of 5-6 usd at best, isn't like a dream at all, unless they are leveraging massively(borrowed from others shorters), there is no gain to be made already if take into account the fees...

What on earth are you talking about?

I haven't been day trading for that long, lots of holding.  But it clearly was a shorters dream.

From 1200-200 that's a 85% drop.  And you can use 3x leverage on Bitfinex.  Up to 20x leverage on okcoin.  And if you were really good you'd have kept increasing your position each time and you'd have really snowballed.

And there are a few different ways of shorting.  You can short by borrowing bitcoins through swaps.  You are not borrowing from shorters.  You are borrowing from Bitcoin holders for a small interest payment.

And you can also short through futures.  You enter a contract with another person.  That other person wants to long.  And there have been a lot of bullish people who have longed all the way down.

And I don't see how you can say that there was no gains to be made after accounting for fees.

Yes there was money to be made. Well played to those who did. Good luck on the way back up.

[randy8777]

I wonder if those who are opening short positions right now are aware that GBTC is currently at 50 USD per share.

Do they think that this is not going to affect the Bitcoin exchange rate?

if people don't see it being reflected in the price the anwer is no. gbtc price is way over priced and doesn't represent current value.

[Amph]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

shorting with a variations of 5-6 usd at best, isn't like a dream at all, unless they are leveraging massively(borrowed from others shorters), there is no gain to be made already if take into account the fees...

What on earth are you talking about?

I haven't been day trading for that long, lots of holding.  But it clearly was a shorters dream.

From 1200-200 that's a 85% drop.  And you can use 3x leverage on Bitfinex.  Up to 20x leverage on okcoin.  And if you were really good you'd have kept increasing your position each time and you'd have really snowballed.

And there are a few different ways of shorting.  You can short by borrowing bitcoins through swaps.  You are not borrowing from shorters.  You are borrowing from Bitcoin holders for a small interest payment.

And you can also short through futures.  You enter a contract with another person.  That other person wants to long.  And there have been a lot of bullish people who have longed all the way down.

And I don't see how you can say that there was no gains to be made after accounting for fees.

why people still talk about 1200-200 drop, that a thing of the past ,could you guys get over it already, please? it does not matter anymore, and it's obvious that many had done a huge profit, my post was about today price, not 2 years ago value...

borrowing money now from longer? i don't think it still working, now with that despair phase no one is willing to risk anymore

what about the price raise so much and you can't re-pay your debt with the long-guy or bullish, or whatever you want to call it?

[chriswen]

why people still talk about 1200-200 drop, that a thing of the past ,could you guys get over it already, please? it does not matter anymore, and it's obvious that many had done a huge profit, my post was about today price, not 2 years ago value...

borrowing money now from longer? i don't think it still working, now with that despair phase no one is willing to risk anymore

what about the price drop so much and you can't re-pay your debt with the long-guy or bullish, or whatever you want to call it?

Okay I didn't know you were talking about today.  But shorting is still viable today as always.  It's not like you'll be guaranteed profits by shorting or longing but with good entry points there is money to be made.

Also one thing you mention is limited rewards.  This is partially true but that's because we are currently in a consolidation pattern.  BBands are squeezing.  The same could be said about a limited upside.  So your argument about a limited downside could also be used the other way.

So now you use this word like despair phase.  Just because you looked at a picture of the bubble chart doesn't mean you understand anything.  And what does "borrowing money now from longer? " mean???

When you're shorting Bitcoin you make money from price drops.

I can't believe you're a Hero member and posting in speculation but you don't understand trading.

[Amph]

it was a typo there i mean raise not drop, anyway what happen if you can't pay your debt with the bullish guy?

"borrowing money from longer" mean exactly that you borrewed money from a bull guy like you said in the post above...

and about despair phase...it is known that we are in a despair phase, you don't need to look at any chart

in the end i'm not arguing that there aren't money to be made in the end, it just more difficult and more risky, the risky is above the gain, especially if you are not really into trading

[chmod755]

Bitfinex lending rates are getting lower (already at 0.01%): http://bfxdata.com/swaphistory/btc.php

OKCoin rates just dropped to 0.02% p. day .

[BillyBobZorton]

Why would anyone go long Bitcoin? Shorting is where the money is beeing made. The last 18 month were a shorters dream and there is no trend reversal in sight. Only fools believe they become rich with owning bitcoin.

For a supposed early adopter that is a bizarre statement.

Sounds like your shorters dream has recently become a nightmare.

He'll be in tears once he misses the boat after a failed shorting prediction (which statistically you always end up making a failed prediction). Then by the time he realizes it's not going down again, it will be to late (on his mind he has the wrong impression bitcoin is already over lol).

[rocks]

Every dollar you have that is not invested in bitcoin and kept in USD, is in effect a short against bitcoin.

[chriswen]

Every dollar you have that is not invested in bitcoin and kept in USD, is in effect a short against bitcoin.

Sure.  But its also a 1x short.

Also some people trade to accumulate USD.  So they just wait for trade opportunities.

Secondly, you can keep a USD balance and receive incredible interest from it.  That's 30% yearly with quite a low risk.

And it can be quite risky to get full exposure into Bitcoin.

[chriswen]

it was a typo there i mean raise not drop, anyway what happen if you can't pay your debt with the bullish guy?

"borrowing money from longer" mean exactly that you borrewed money from a bull guy like you said in the post above...

and about despair phase...it is known that we are in a despair phase, you don't need to look at any chart

in the end i'm not arguing that there aren't money to be made in the end, it just more difficult and more risky, the risky is above the gain, especially if you are not really into trading

Well if you get too much into debt you'll be force liquidated.

And you borrow Bitcoins from the Bullish guy.  The bullish guy is really bullish so the daily interest is less than 0.02% interest which is dirt cheap.

And with futures there is no swap costs.  And for shorting usually you receive interest because futures are bullish and is usually above index.

I never said shorting isn't risky.  But longing can also be risky also. 

Or you might be able to wait and find a better long entry.  You don't always need to be in a position.

[chriswen]

And you know what.

About the despair phase.  I don't really think we're in a despair phase right now.

Despair phase could have been the 166 phase.

Anyways, do you really think people are in despair right now?  I think there's actually a bit of Hopium with the Nasdaq news.

[Amph]

166 phase wasn't even a phase(actually some sites report 156 but whatever), i remember it lasted like few seconds or something, was more like a negative peak

yeah i agree we are leaving the despair phase with all those recent news, i sense a less bearish market now, the swings are also more strict

[mrhelpful]

outside from daytrading and what not, you guys actually looking at the core flaw of bitcoin.

cause I see it from a transaction point of view, if its not used daily or whatever the coin will take 2 weeks in the longer term. you can talk about market fee, but whats fair for as a market fee? on finding your bitcoin..