What if Bitcoin Never increases in "Value"?

[Cortex7]

cortex7, good response. What do you think about meshnets? Darknet, cjdns etc?

I agree with the facts you presented.

Ie.

Fiat is created out of thin air - no work required.
Bitcoin is created by computing work - however this work is done by machines, not humans.
Gold is extracted from earth by industrial labour.

The original code for bitcoin was created by Satoshi, one or more individuals. You could say this was created out of 'thin air' as well, as there's no physical substance behind Bitcoin, as there's no physical substance behind Fiat money.

In that particular regards fiat and bitcoin is a bit the same, but still very different - you cannot fake a bitcoin to my knowledge, whereas fake dollar bills is not uncommon.

The most important difference is centralized vs decentralized.

Also one of the most interesting aspects is that Bitcoin has no judgement. To use fiat money, esp. online, you need to be approved by the bank. To use a bitcoin wallet, you need no approval whatsoever.

As for the bitmint case, if they were successful, why did they not move offshore? I understand they were successfull?

Bitcoin code required some work, Satoshi ( or the group working under that pseudonym ) needed to eat and push the correct sequence of keys. Original bitcoin code was nice work, most alts just tweak some vars and swap out the hash func.

As it stands cryptographically encoded data is allowed to flow on the internet (darknets), in the future maybe not?

Meshnets may be considered the only free path in the future, but they could be stamped out by RF laws. I think if the internet only allowed whitelisted packets (encryption for which gov has the key) then by that stage trying to setup a pirate radio data node would land you in trouble with RF detector police looking for non whitelisted transmissions.

But that point has not arrived yet and so perhaps someone should code up a p2p marketplace.

If this is the Bitmint you are referring to:
https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/244.pdf

That paper is nonsense to me, the author has no grasp of what peoples money needs to be. It seems written by a politician or a banker.

[Cryptowatch.com]

cortex, no my bad - I referred to bitmit.net.

[segvec]

Bitcoin will either increase or decrease.
Complete stability is not something that will happen for a very, very long time...if possible at all.

[Cortex7]

cortex, no my bad - I referred to bitmit.net.

Oh ok, moving offshore would not help them, in such a "sensitive" case govs can order DNS to drop names and ISPs to drop static IP addresses.

Centralized server system is easier to create/debug but cannot be used for any potentially disruptive system, it will be swatted like an annoying fly.

P.S. very darknets can be made using stenographic data riding on whitelisted data, so do not despair, there will always be a free path even if it's a very slow baud rate.

edit: I enjoyed my exchange with you Cryptowatch, I'm going to sleep now, catch you later.

[ScryptAsic]

If it stays stable at a certain price range, then it should be a good thing. Business owners will have more confidence and this will certainly encourage use and adoption. forget about the speculator and day trader who hoped to see insanely increase in price jump. These are the people who caused all the uncertainty and creates doubt about bitcoin future

I agree with this. If the price is somewhat more stable then it is now, then it will likely see more long term adoption while will likely mean higher long term prices

[Cryptowatch.com]

cortex, no my bad - I referred to bitmit.net.

Oh ok, moving offshore would not help them, in such a "sensitive" case govs can order DNS to drop names and ISPs to drop static IP addresses.

Centralized server system is easier to create/debug but cannot be used for any potentially disruptive system, it will be swatted like an annoying fly.

P.S. very darknets can be made using stenographic data riding on whitelisted data, so do not despair, there will always be a free path even if it's a very slow baud rate.

edit: I enjoyed my exchange with you Cryptowatch, I'm going to sleep now, catch you later.

Hope you slept well. Bitmit, being a marketplace, why would it be a problem if they were based in an offshore location?

[novacn]

When valued against USD or GBP.

I know a lot of people believe it's gonna go to the moon.. or at least rise steadily into the 1000's of dollars and a lot of people believe it's a Ponzi scheme which will eventually leave Bitcoin worthless but what if Bitcoin does nothing, it just sticks around the £200 - £250 mark forever?

Even if this is the case, I'll stick to btc. Cause USD is keeping decreasing in value.

[Bit N Roll]

I think Id still keep it as long as it has value with it. As long as its not dead, I will keep my coins.

if you keep mining w your cpu it can't ever be dead

I think mining is not for me.

[Bitcoin Magazine]

if BTCitcoin stays low.  it is just a testament to how strong the actual economy is.

[Cortex7]

cortex, no my bad - I referred to bitmit.net.

Oh ok, moving offshore would not help them, in such a "sensitive" case govs can order DNS to drop names and ISPs to drop static IP addresses.

Centralized server system is easier to create/debug but cannot be used for any potentially disruptive system, it will be swatted like an annoying fly.

P.S. very darknets can be made using stenographic data riding on whitelisted data, so do not despair, there will always be a free path even if it's a very slow baud rate.

edit: I enjoyed my exchange with you Cryptowatch, I'm going to sleep now, catch you later.

Hope you slept well. Bitmit, being a marketplace, why would it be a problem if they were based in an offshore location?

Any rogue system will be crucified if it threatens existing big business, even if it isn't breaking any "Laws".

Money can brute force all sorts of things to happen.

Don't get me wrong, a p2p system would also encounter pressure:

Antivirus would say app is dangerous.
Media would spread FUD.
Saboteurs would be employed.

[johnyj]

Currency always fluctuates against each other, you can take a look at Japanese yen, which has lost 50% of its value in two years against USD and other major currencies

In the long run, there is only one sure thing: All the fiat money will losing value quickly, because the debt based money issuing will require exponential increase in debt and productivity, and eventually productivity will rise slower and slower (if bitcoin's value keep rising exponentially, the game could last another century or so)

[segvec]

Currency always fluctuates against each other, you can take a look at Japanese yen, which has lost 50% of its value in two years against USD and other major currencies

In the long run, there is only one sure thing: All the fiat money will losing value quickly, because the debt based money issuing will require exponential increase in debt and productivity, and eventually productivity will rise slower and slower (if bitcoin's value keep rising exponentially, the game could last another century or so)

johnyj, nice!
+1.

[jonald_fyookball]

The question is preposterous.

1.  It's increased already from
fractions of a penny to hundreds
of dollars in a few short years.

2. How could it NOT increase in value,
given the limited supply?

[hasherr]

Its funny how everybody wants to became rich by investing in bitcoin. Bitcoin will go to the moon and i will sit on my ass for the rest of my life, living off my 3 bitcoins. If you live with this kind of mindset, sour times await you.

[bitcoinbot]

Well if the same amount of people sold bitcoin as those that bought the price would stay the same. If less people bought bitcoin than those that sold the price would decrease.
How is this preposterous?

[bitcoinbot]

Currency always fluctuates against each other, you can take a look at Japanese yen, which has lost 50% of its value in two years against USD and other major currencies

In the long run, there is only one sure thing: All the fiat money will losing value quickly, because the debt based money issuing will require exponential increase in debt and productivity, and eventually productivity will rise slower and slower (if bitcoin's value keep rising exponentially, the game could last another century or so)

Where do banks figure in all of this?

[theblacksquid]

Currency always fluctuates against each other, you can take a look at Japanese yen, which has lost 50% of its value in two years against USD and other major currencies

In the long run, there is only one sure thing: All the fiat money will losing value quickly, because the debt based money issuing will require exponential increase in debt and productivity, and eventually productivity will rise slower and slower (if bitcoin's value keep rising exponentially, the game could last another century or so)

Where do banks figure in all of this?

Central banks loan out money to their respective affiliate banks money that didn't previously exist in the money supply, devaluating the value of every unit of said money. (Federal Reserve's QE is the best example for this.)

[Xch4ng3]

Wouldn't make a single difference to me.

I use Bitcoin because of the security it provides, not the value assigned to it. Yes sure it's a little bit hard to buy coins (you can use ATMs but at a high mark up) but if it means my credit card details won't be exposed when an merchant fails in protecting customer data then I'll deal with the inconvenience.

[theblacksquid]

Wouldn't make a single difference to me.

I use Bitcoin because of the security it provides, not the value assigned to it. Yes sure it's a little bit hard to buy coins (you can use ATMs but at a high mark up) but if it means my credit card details won't be exposed when an merchant fails in protecting customer data then I'll deal with the inconvenience.

*Thumbs Up*

I read something that said (I can't remember where), that the DarkNets would use BTC as its currency regardless of its price, whether is $5000 a coin or $0.05, because its the only thing that allowed them to facilitate trade without having to use the existing financial system. n a large scale, this would really open up the rest of the world to online trade, not just card-totting members of the western world.

[Q7]

I still don't think that is going to happen no matter what others think