is it possible at all for a bank to be honest

[brian_23452]

I've been going over the history of modern banking, and right from the start when banks were little more than goldsmiths with vaults they already couldn't stop themselves from loaning out deposited client gold to other clients (e.g running a fractional reserve scam).

is it possible that humans by nature simply cannot hold other people's money for long periods of time without their greed leading either to them loaning out other people's money or downright running away with it?
it seems to me bitcoin's solution of being your own bank is the only way to keep your precious money from being stolen by one elaborate scam or another.

How is that a scam?  Why else would a bank accept your deposit, and pay you interest for it, if not to loan it out?  That's the whole point of a bank.  

its a scam because you did not agree for the bank to loan your money out when you opened a checking account, indeed no one tells you that's what they are going to do with it.
if they did tell you and you agreed you would have specified how much risk you allow the bank to take with your money and how much interest they are going to be paying you for that risk.

If you think its such a good business then why dont you start bank?  Easy money, no?

if you have zero morals and have no problem to rob your fellow countrymen and you have the tens of millions of dollars it costs to comply with all the regulations i can't think of a better business for the rich sociopath.
of course you run the risk of an angry mob with pitchforks lynching you once the economy starts to fall apart...

Without getting too off topic, this is the sort of inane, lunatic  rambling that leads the average person to look at bitcoin and say "um yea no thanks".  
Back on topic, you keep saying all this stuff as if the "bank" came into your house and took your money.  If you are doing business with a bank it is quite the opposite; YOU chose to do business, and went out of your way to engage in business with the bank.  You do not have to if you do not want to, you know.

[brian_23452]

I've been going over the history of modern banking, and right from the start when banks were little more than goldsmiths with vaults they already couldn't stop themselves from loaning out deposited client gold to other clients (e.g running a fractional reserve scam).

is it possible that humans by nature simply cannot hold other people's money for long periods of time without their greed leading either to them loaning out other people's money or downright running away with it?
it seems to me bitcoin's solution of being your own bank is the only way to keep your precious money from being stolen by one elaborate scam or another.

How is that a scam?  Why else would a bank accept your deposit, and pay you interest for it, if not to loan it out?  That's the whole point of a bank.  

its a scam because you did not agree for the bank to loan your money out when you opened a checking account, indeed no one tells you that's what they are going to do with it.
if they did tell you and you agreed you would have specified how much risk you allow the bank to take with your money and how much interest they are going to be paying you for that risk.

But you did agree to it.  No one made you walk into the bank, give them your money, and sign all those papers you signed but didn't read.  

go ahead and read them, nowhere will it say they are going to lend your money out.
and by the way you are forced to open a bank account by the government to pay taxes.

No, you aren't.  I lived for years without a bank account and had no problem paying taxes. 

[pattu1]

Regulators are supposed to ensure that banks stay honest. Hopefully, these huge fines imposed on banks serve a purpose and banks have learned their lesson.

[bl4kjaguar]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

[worle1bm]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

[bl4kjaguar]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

HONESTY constitutes full disclosure, and you are not able to demand it from a bank. Therefore, it is not possible at all for a bank to be honest; i.e. you cannot enter into such an agreement with a bank.

[MelodyRowell]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

If you were to attempt to change any part of the account agreement then the bank would not accept it (the same is true for most other companies). The agreement is also written in a way that allows them to amend the agreement.

Banks however are generally good with disclosing potential conflicts of interest and other issues regarding specific transactions as all types of banking transactions are heavily regulated, with the regulations demanding that banks issue very specific disclosures regarding various types of transactions

[worle1bm]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

HONESTY constitutes full disclosure, and you are not able to demand it from a bank. Therefore, it is not possible at all for a bank to be honest; i.e. you cannot enter into such an agreement with a bank.

Ok, what does that literally mean? What information do you want to know? Why are you entitled to that information?

[bl4kjaguar]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

HONESTY constitutes full disclosure, and you are not able to demand it from a bank. Therefore, it is not possible at all for a bank to be honest; i.e. you cannot enter into such an agreement with a bank.

Ok, what does that literally mean? What information do you want to know? Why are you entitled to that information?

I want to know why it says (in micro-print) "authorized signature" below the signature line on my checks! Normally, you are entitled to full disclosure on a contract, and a check is nothing more than that.

See if a banker will tell you the truth about that!

[worle1bm]

Ok, what does that literally mean? What information do you want to know? Why are you entitled to that information?

I want to know why it says (in micro-print) "authorized representative" below the signature line on my checks! Normally, you are entitled to full disclosure on a contract, and a check is nothing more than that.

Why can't you answer my questions?

[bl4kjaguar]

Ok, what does that literally mean? What information do you want to know? Why are you entitled to that information?

I want to know why it says (in micro-print) "authorized representative" below the signature line on my checks! Normally, you are entitled to full disclosure on a contract, and a check is nothing more than that.

Why can't you answer my questions?

You need to ask them one at a time with full context.

[worle1bm]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

[brian_23452]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?

HONESTY constitutes full disclosure, and you are not able to demand it from a bank. Therefore, it is not possible at all for a bank to be honest; i.e. you cannot enter into such an agreement with a bank.

Ok, what does that literally mean? What information do you want to know? Why are you entitled to that information?

I want to know why it says (in micro-print) "authorized signature" below the signature line on my checks! Normally, you are entitled to full disclosure on a contract, and a check is nothing more than that.

See if a banker will tell you the truth about that!

You insist on making a big deal out of nothing.  If you don't like the terms of the deal, don't do business with the bank.  This really isn't that complicated.

[Fabrizio89]

is it possible that humans by nature simply cannot hold other people's money for long periods of time without their greed leading either to them loaning out other people's money or downright running away with it?

It's not about human nature, but about the system of values we live in. If you live in a strongly competitive system where everyone abuses of others for his own good, then you won't have much problems doing the same to survive in that context. We always lived in a world of artificial scarcity, let it be about raw materials, food or other, that brought human to be always afraid and to want more and more.
If you want a honest bank, you can find many local smaller ones that can offer such services and they are trasparent about their movements.

[CryptoHeaven]

No.

They are thieves by definition.

[worle1bm]

No.

They are thieves by definition.

How so?

[bl4kjaguar]

In This Thread: People pretending that they understand the banking system.

[worle1bm]

In This Thread: People pretending that they understand the banking system.

ITS: This guy refusing to answer simple questions because he's a shill.

[bl4kjaguar]

You ask those questions one at a time with full context if you want answers. 

[worle1bm]

If you write "I demand full disclosure on all transactions" or words to that effect on your account agreement, no bank will accept it.

Yeah, because that's an incredibly vague demand. What constitutes "full disclosure"? Why does a bank owe that to you?