bitcoin intrusion in your life

[ribuck]

I just want it to be faster, prettier and cleaner working. 

That would be nice. But mainly I just want it to not be shut down.

[no to the gold cult]

I answered 'Totally'

Somehow I wonder if I'll ever manage to free my mind from this whole project.

I think bitcoin is the first true techno-cult I have ever come across, with evangelical zeal at that.

I remember writing a sci-fi story about the rabid fanatical cult of Protocol 99, who destroyed the Autarchy of the Five Moons in their quest to divert enough energy into the governments Quantum-Transmitter and talk to a billion year old god-mind from M33. Bitcoins are a bit like that really.

[no to the gold cult]

the psychological papers have already been written. the (nonscientific but still interesting) classic is of course http://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-Madness-Crowds/dp/051788433X. i don't mean that reference to suggest that everyone using bitcoin is deluded, but you might consider whether obsession is rational and what opportunity costs you incur as a result. the public is inclined to be less obsessive than the early adopters, of course.

but i agree that the technology is fascinating. the sociopolitical dynamics of the phenomenon are interesting as well, particularly the marketing of the technology by 'satoshi' as libertarian (which, when you review his original messages on the cypherpunks mailing list, was intentional and strategic). that could have gone very differently and was managed very well in order to appeal to one group of people who could serve as early adopters.

I wonder what opportunity costs you incur as a result of posting on this forum.

[bittersweet]

Yes, I check the progress of the project way too much. But I'm not religious about it.
Bitcoin is just a tool and I still give it about 70% chance to fail.

[no to the gold cult]

you mean me personally? not much yet. this is my tenth post!

if you mean the generic 'you', i'm not a hyper-rationalist. the forum's social, and that's fine. it doesn't need to be obviously productive.

obsessive checking of prices that you don't intend immediately to trade upon, though, is probably counterproductive. that is, it is probably worse than a waste of time. i say that knowing that it won't change anyone's behaviour, for obsessive forces are strong, as i am all too well aware personally.

One of the reasons I think bitcoin will succeed is the fanatical element.

[no to the gold cult]

You make it sound like it was planned, or managed even.

satoshi's early messages to cypherpunks are informative. there was a discussion of how bitcoin could be marketed to libertarians there, compared to alternatives (e.g., ones that relied on altrustically motivated groups).

Any links?

It is my beleif that Satoshi is not himself a libertarian or anarcho-cap, and that libs and an-caps only think that bitcoin is somehow theirs.  In fact I consider bitcoin to be anyones. Makes monetary policy one more thing that government need not to worry its busy little head about and screw up somehow, like the rotation of the earth or its distance from the sun.

[Nesetalis]

My name is Nes, and I've got a bitcoin problem ;.;
alms? alms for the poor?

Seriously though... since I learned about bitcoins, ive done little but try to earn them O.O its like my teenage years all over again... gotta catch em all...

as for the libertarian stuff... anarchy stuff.. Bitcoin is free of government intervention for the most part... lets try not to politicize it.. there are enough liars cheats and scoundrels in the world without bringing bitcoin in to it. Whatever your political leaning, a free currency is something we can all appreciate. (unless you are one of those walstreet bankers >.>)

[Anonymous]

I believe bitcoin will lead to the singularity. I mean some are already tending their mining rigs like children. Bitcoin drives humans to improve its capacities untill eventually  you might need the power of a black hole to mine a block - did someone mention mining with the large hadron collider ?

If anything bitcoin is an economic singularity proposed by Robin Hanson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hanson which might be as profound on humanity as the agricultural and industrial revolutions - or not.

This makes it obvious why I obsessively check the news for mentions of bitcoin.  

[Nesetalis]

i just dont want to go to bed because its currently in a slow upswing.... Don't want to miss selling at the right moment and make some cash...

[grondilu]

up for newbies

[airdata]

lol... somebody should shop some 5850 boxes into the background in that picture

Today I was at work and I was thinking about how I just recycled all of this crap I had up there including some huge beige towers.  I was thinking of how good of a sleeper unit one of those would be to stick off in the cooled server room and grind away.

[Coma]

I believe bitcoin will lead to the singularity. I mean some are already tending their mining rigs like children. Bitcoin drives humans to improve its capacities untill eventually  you might need the power of a black hole to mine a block - did someone mention mining with the large hadron collider ?

If anything bitcoin is an economic singularity proposed by Robert Hanson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hanson which might be as profound on humanity as the agricultural and industrial revolutions - or not.

I believe this can be completely revolutionary. And being able to participate, even at small scale as I do, and see this happening is thrilling.
Just read the post that probably there are just a couple of thousand miners, this is just starting. Still there is so much mistery and social variables involved.

Sometimes I try to think of this as only a hobby, to keep my mental sanity I guess.

[MacFall]

You make it sound like it was planned, or managed even.

satoshi's early messages to cypherpunks are informative. there was a discussion of how bitcoin could be marketed to libertarians there, compared to alternatives (e.g., ones that relied on altrustically motivated groups).

Any links?

It is my beleif that Satoshi is not himself a libertarian or anarcho-cap, and that libs and an-caps only think that bitcoin is somehow theirs.  In fact I consider bitcoin to be anyones. Makes monetary policy one more thing that government need not to worry its busy little head about and screw up somehow, like the rotation of the earth or its distance from the sun.

The problem for anyone who isn't a libertarian (or at least a classical liberal) is that if bitcoin succeeds, governments will not longer have central banking and debt financing at their disposal. Without that, they have only taxation. But they would need a tax rate approaching 100% to fund anything close to their current activities, and that's not likely to be very successful. The bitcoin-driven black market would crush the tax-laden "white market". So all their wars and social programs are going bye-bye. Bitcoin may not produce a stateless society, but it sure as hell would destroy the modern warfare/welfare state.

[BitterTea]

The problem for anyone who isn't a libertarian (or at least a classical liberal) is that if bitcoin succeeds, governments will not longer have central banking and debt financing at their disposal. Without that, they have only taxation. But they would need a tax rate approaching 100% to fund anything close to their current activities, and that's not likely to be very successful. The bitcoin-driven black market would crush the tax-laden "white market". So all their wars and social programs are going bye-bye. Bitcoin may not produce a stateless society, but it sure as hell would destroy the modern warfare/welfare state.

Thus why Bitcoin must be

[tiberiandusk]

I got laid off in 2009 from my animation job and then suffered multiple herniations in my back and have been stuck at home waiting for the doctors to call and say they can fix me. Since I can't really do much right now but work on the computer I decided to treat bitcoin as a sort of job. I work flex hours and earn a meager salary but with hopes of advancement in the near future. I started mining first then decided that people seemed to be focusing on bitcoin as more of an investment than as money so I setup BitBid to try and encourage people to buy and sell things with coins and get them moving around the network instead of just sitting on some high-risk investors home thumbdrive.

[grm203]

yea, now its my new hobby.

[IIOII]

For me it's not a religion yet, but it keeps getting worse...

[no to the gold cult]

You make it sound like it was planned, or managed even.

satoshi's early messages to cypherpunks are informative. there was a discussion of how bitcoin could be marketed to libertarians there, compared to alternatives (e.g., ones that relied on altrustically motivated groups).

Any links?

It is my beleif that Satoshi is not himself a libertarian or anarcho-cap, and that libs and an-caps only think that bitcoin is somehow theirs.  In fact I consider bitcoin to be anyones. Makes monetary policy one more thing that government need not to worry its busy little head about and screw up somehow, like the rotation of the earth or its distance from the sun.

The problem for anyone who isn't a libertarian (or at least a classical liberal) is that if bitcoin succeeds, governments will not longer have central banking and debt financing at their disposal. Without that, they have only taxation. But they would need a tax rate approaching 100% to fund anything close to their current activities, and that's not likely to be very successful. The bitcoin-driven black market would crush the tax-laden "white market". So all their wars and social programs are going bye-bye. Bitcoin may not produce a stateless society, but it sure as hell would destroy the modern warfare/welfare state.

I'm all for the end of the warfare state. Don't get why libertarians hate welfare so much. In my country welfare means affordable quality health care, affordable housing for low income families (instead of the mercy of slum-lords etc) and subsidized income for pensioners and so on. In the US (i think) welfare seems to mean having money taken from you and given to people you don't like, don't resemble, don't consider your fellows, and don't consider to be in the same society as you.

Maybe that's the difference, in the US they shout "We're #1" a lot to make up for not really feeling like they're all on the same team. They do not got each others back, it's every man for his self, fuck the other guy I got mine.

Elsewhere it's more like "Sure, me casa su casa, let's pool the heating bill and the medicine cabinet".

Anyway like I said, fuck the warfare state.

[ribuck]

Near the top left of each forum page is a figure for "total time logged in". I'm reluctant to admit that mine says 21 days. Admittedly that's spread over almost a year. Who has the highest figure?

[Lupus_Yonderboy]

...fuck the other guy I got mine.

Thus summing up the entire Libertarian philosophy pretty succinctly. Libertarians are a minority in the US, outside the US they are irrelevant. One of the more successful attack vectors within the US will be to link Bitcoins to Libertarians (and other fringe groups), thus making it the "currency of teh crazy".

I do find all the anti-government early adopter types pretty amusing in their hypocrisy as well. The guys with many thousands of Bitcoins who jump on anyone who suggests another block chain or Bitcoin 2.0, etc...If these guys are so against giving up their meager wealth in Bitcoins, how do you think those who have far more in fiat currency are going to react? The ones who really do have their hands on the levers of power and use them daily. Do you honestly think they are going to idly sit by and let you start a new currency on them and make their holdings worthless?

Bitcoin will not get wide acceptance in the world, because if it begins to, the powers that be will come down on it hard with massive PR campaigns that will tie it to child molesters, drug cartels, and fringe militia groups. They will also liberally apply money laundering laws as well. Exchanges will always be a central point of failure, and quite frankly there is no place on this earth you can operate an electronic exchange that has enough liquidity that the US Government or its allies cannot reach.

Me? I'm just along for the ride, mining away and taking as much of these Libertarians' money as I possibly can. They've already paid for my 14 new rigs, and are doing a fine job of paying for the remodel of my house. Bitcoins could go to $.25 and be made illegal in every industrialized country of the world and I would still come out way ahead.