Winklevoss COIN -- Will it even matter? And how much?

[ravenjt]

I would say late winter/early spring will be when the ETF is approved. They say it typically takes a year. The ETF was submitted last July but they re-submitted it in February.

Why do you think it will be approved? It all sounds very dodgy.
Basically, they are going to sell the ETF (initially at least) based on their own holdings of BTC, as the market is so unregulated and illiquid. If they were to sell their BTC, it would be expected to have a massive market impact, as the BTC market is so small and illiquid. So the whole principle relies on investors buying the ETF at a price which is higher than what Winklevoss would be able sell the coins at themselves.

Basically, they are asking for permission to sell something to investors at above its real price, on the basis that the investors are too stupid to realise this.

I don't work for SEC, but if I did, I fear my hand would be hovering over the 'Reject' stamp.

[Puppet]

Thats a nonsensical argument, as it would apply to *any* non synthetic ETF.

[ravenjt]

Thats a nonsensical argument, as it would apply to *any* non synthetic ETF.

ETFs are based on large liquid markets where the market impact of the ETF can be expected to be small enough to have no discernible impact on price.
This ETF would have an enormous market impact.
It's the same reason why ETFs are all based on large portfolios of shares (or portfolios of large shares), in order to avoid market impact. You don't get ETFs that invest in five small companies, for example, just as you wont get an ETF that invests in just BTC, imo.

[fonzie]

It´s sure worth to take all the effort(more than 18 months now?) to get an ETF approved just to sell 120k coins......
Because the bitcoin markets are so illiquid that it is impossible to sell that unimaginable amount of coins....

Real pity attempt to spread low quality FUD guys!

They could have sold those coins splitted in the last months for higher prices even if they would have only used BTC-E!

[ravenjt]

Think of it this way. Assume they sell 120k of coins worth of ETF for c.$36 million.
Then, for some reason, half of the ETF customers decide to sell their investment.
If Winklevoss dump 60k coins on the market to repay them, they will crash the market and get nowhere near $18 million for them.
So instead they will either have to repay investors out of their own money, or default.

In sharp contrast, all existing ETFs are based on large markets. Of course, they have some market impact, but it will be tiny in comparison. The missing amount can easily be funded by the ETF, so it doesn't have to default.

[NotLambchop]

It´s sure worth to take all the effort(more than 18 months now?) to get an ETF approved just to sell 120k coins......
Because the bitcoin markets are so illiquid that it is impossible to sell that unimaginable amount of coins....

Real pity attempt to spread low quality FUD guys!

They could have sold those coins splitted in the last months for higher prices even if they would have only used BTC-E!

Tangent:  So many here assume the rich are just like the poor, only with more money.  That the rich are just as concerned about increasing their wealth as the poor.
That's as goofy as a beggar assuming that a king's main motivation is amassing as much food as he can.

[Hunyadi]

Then, for some reason, half of the ETF customers decide to sell their investment.
If Winklevoss dump 60k coins on the market to repay them, they will crash the market and get nowhere near $18 million for them.
So instead they will either have to repay investors out of their own money, or default.

So, the sellers wouldn't sell to other investors but back to the ETF? I don't think it works like that.

[koberstein]

another cryptocurreny? Its like all the other famous ppl coins tbh
Just like Maxcoin

Not another coin, an ETF (exchange-traded fund) listed under the ticker symbol "COIN"

[inca]

It´s sure worth to take all the effort(more than 18 months now?) to get an ETF approved just to sell 120k coins......
Because the bitcoin markets are so illiquid that it is impossible to sell that unimaginable amount of coins....

Real pity attempt to spread low quality FUD guys!

They could have sold those coins splitted in the last months for higher prices even if they would have only used BTC-E!

Tangent:  So many here assume the rich are just like the poor, only with more money.  That the rich are just as concerned about increasing their wealth as the poor.
That's as goofy as a beggar assuming that a king's main motivation is amassing as much food as he can.

'The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.' Gordon Gekko.

It is more strange to assume the rich are any different from the poor.

[BitCoinNutJob]

The Winkelvoss EFT is a dump. They bought a lot of Bitcoins, enough that if they sold them on any Bitcoin exchange, they'd crash the price. Now they want out.  The EFT is a way for them to sell their Bitcoins, hopefully without crashing the market.

It's probably too late for that. They need a big supply of dumb money to exit this way.

They could have sold 100k BTC during the china excitement pretty easy, also many months after the bubble they could have got twice current price.  Just move 1k a day into bitstamp thats possible no? 100 days u done.   Right now yeah seems pretty pointless dumping at this price.

[inca]

The Winkelvoss EFT is a dump. They bought a lot of Bitcoins, enough that if they sold them on any Bitcoin exchange, they'd crash the price. Now they want out.  The EFT is a way for them to sell their Bitcoins, hopefully without crashing the market.

It's probably too late for that. They need a big supply of dumb money to exit this way.

They could have sold 100k BTC during the china excitement pretty easy, also many months after the bubble they could have got twice current price.  Just move 1k a day into bitstamp thats possible no? 100 days u done.   Right now yeah seems pretty pointless dumping at this price.

Nagle has some good posts from 2011 espousing the same negative views on bitcoin as today. Even broken clocks are more accurate.

[NotLambchop]

It´s sure worth to take all the effort(more than 18 months now?) to get an ETF approved just to sell 120k coins......
Because the bitcoin markets are so illiquid that it is impossible to sell that unimaginable amount of coins....

Real pity attempt to spread low quality FUD guys!

They could have sold those coins splitted in the last months for higher prices even if they would have only used BTC-E!

Tangent:  So many here assume the rich are just like the poor, only with more money.  That the rich are just as concerned about increasing their wealth as the poor.
That's as goofy as a beggar assuming that a king's main motivation is amassing as much food as he can.

'The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.' Gordon Gekko.

"I have ways of making money you know nothing of."--J.D. Rockefeller
Because one irrelevant quote deserves another.

It is more strange to assume the rich are any different from the poor.

It's not an assumption, it's knowledge and experience.  If you think that People like H. Ford and G. Westinghouse were driven by the same greed that drives you, you're simply wrong

[inca]

It's not an assumption, it's knowledge and experience.  If you think that People like H. Ford and G. Westinghouse were driven by the same greed that drives you, you're simply wrong

A bit elitist there lambchop.

Oh and for the record you have no idea of my motivations

[NotLambchop]

It's not an assumption, it's knowledge and experience.  If you think that People like H. Ford and G. Westinghouse were driven by the same greed that drives you, you're simply wrong

A bit elitist there lambchop.

Oh and for the record you have no idea of my motivations

Not at all, unless you feel that knowing wealthy people makes me elitist.
I need know nothing beyond your claim that the "the rich are [not] any different from the poor" for my assertion to hold

[Kupsi]

Winklevoss Twins: Bitcoin Trust Is Alive and Well

[BitChick]

Winklevoss Twins: Bitcoin Trust Is Alive and Well

They should have just said this when they gave their speech that supposedly bombed at the Money 20/20 event this past weekend.

A one minute speech of how the Bitcoin trust is alive and well is all people really want to hear.   Of course, we would love to have more information but I think their hands are tied on that.  They are not allowed to give any more.  An in depth analysis of what could happen once the trust is released, with some pretty charts and graphs would be interesting to us all too though.  I am not sure if they can even speculate that much either.

[yraskk]

Winklevoss Twins: Bitcoin Trust Is Alive and Well

They should have just said this when they gave their speech that supposedly bombed at the Money 20/20 event this past weekend.

A one minute speech of how the Bitcoin trust is alive and well is all people really want to hear.   Of course, we would love to have more information but I think their hands are tied on that.  They are not allowed to give any more.  An in depth analysis of what could happen once the trust is released, with some pretty charts and graphs would be interesting to us all too though.  I am not sure if they can even speculate that much either.

Exactly. But is there any news about the opening of the winklevoss ETF? I can't wait the entering of wall street in the bitcoin world !

[biggus dickus]

......... But is there any news about the opening of the winklevoss ETF? I can't wait the entering of wall street in the bitcoin world !

I don't think so because it's up to the regulators to decide if and when to approve it. I doubt the regulators will give any hints until they have made up their minds.

[MrBig]

Pretty sad to see many bitcoiners pegging their hopes on the success of btc to some trust that may not even get approved, instead of the revolutionary digital payment protocol developed by Satoshi. The price isn't the only thing to hit a new low it seems.

[Kupsi]

Pretty sad to see many bitcoiners pegging their hopes on the success of btc to some trust that may not even get approved, instead of the revolutionary digital payment protocol developed by Satoshi. The price isn't the only thing to hit a new low it seems.

You understand that increased liquidity is good for the payment protocol?