Dear synechist, xc, blocknet, and dan metcalf

[adhitthana]

A more pertinent question might be why you put the word the in front of the words "hal dev". Prom did not say he was the hal dev.  Go back and read it if you doubt me.

Okay, "Dan is hal dev".  Having "the" in there doesn't change things that much.  I put "the" in there because I'm just trying to use proper english.  The meaning is the same.

No it's not. Is english your first language?

Now I'm going to turn this around ask YOU why you put in the words "was", "a", "who", "looking", "at", "code", and completely switched the order of "hal" and "dev" to finally get "Dan was a dev who was looking at Hal's code."

You see how ridiculous your argument is?

I already explained this. I said in the light of the other evidence it is the best interpretation. We know that Dan was reviewing many coins.
So it makes sense that it what he did with HAL too.

[ProfX]

Alot of the questions being asked by dare i say, you trolls, have been answered already, but for some reason you choose to keep ignoring this. Marlo is trying to persuade people into thinking XC has been shady from the start, but investors that have been there since the beginning know this is far from the truth. Not only is this FUD, but alot of it is disorganized and contradictory, half of you think Dan cant code, the other half think he's XC and HAL dev. Seriously which one is it? The fact that there is this contradictory FUD, rules out dozens of troll posts that have already been made, because its either one or the other right? I've seen enough people arguing both sides of the story, and you know what, you are all idiots that don't know XC. You think you know XC, but the truth is, alot of these posts by trolls clearly show a lack of understand and knowledge about XC from its emergence to where it is today.

[RichardT]

A more pertinent question might be why you put the word the in front of the words "hal dev". Prom did not say he was the hal dev.  Go back and read it if you doubt me.

Okay, "Dan is hal dev".  Having "the" in there doesn't change things that much.  I put "the" in there because I'm just trying to use proper english.  The meaning is the same.

No it's not. Is english your first language?

Yes, it is.  So now you're going to argue about grammatical correctness? I don't think you really know where you're going with your argument here.

Now I'm going to turn this around ask YOU why you put in the words "was", "a", "who", "looking", "at", "code", and completely switched the order of "hal" and "dev" to finally get "Dan was a dev who was looking at Hal's code."

You see how ridiculous your argument is?

I already explained this. I said in the light of the other evidence it is the best interpretation. We know that Dan was reviewing many coins.
So it makes sense that it what he did with HAL too.

No one is questioning whether or not he code reviewed for Hal.  We all know for a fact that he did.  What has come to light from those screenshots is that Dan is also "the anon dev for Hal".

Are you really having trouble following all this?  Sorry to sound mean, but I feel like I've been talking to a little kid.

Also, you haven't responded to this:

EDIT:  I just reread the screenshots, like you suggested.  Take a look at this one:  http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2 (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2)

So they are talking about Dan in this one and Prom says:  "he was the anon dev for HAL".

I'm curious how you're going to interpret this one and how many words you're going to add.

Also, you never answered my question of why you think that Prometheus telling one person on skype that Dan is hal dev would boost the popularity of Hal.  This was your original reasoning for Prom claiming that Dan is hal dev.

[TheMage]

So here are my thoughts from an outsiders point of view (I have no involvement, or even really knowledge of what had happened, hell before this all blew up I had no idea who prom was until multiple people/sources state he is a P&Der, which is pretty scummy if you ask me).


Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.



I will say this however, and one more person to add to the list of people XC should have never been involved with was Jasin from Fibonacci. This one I can talk to at length considering I was the one who tried one last attempt to smooth things over between Jasin and his investors. Instead of helping, he completely stopped posting here and Litecointalk, along with delete his website. So he walked away with a cool mil or two of money.


The XC team defended him pretty hard, at first as a dev and then as a contributor, and that along with all of this recent information makes XC seem very shady to me. Again just an outsiders perspective.

[ProfX]

So here are my thoughts from an outsiders point of view (I have no involvement, or even really knowledge of what had happened, hell before this all blew up I had no idea who prom was until multiple people/sources state he is a P&Der, which is pretty scummy if you ask me).


Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.



I will say this however, and one more person to add to the list of people XC should have never been involved with was Jasin from Fibonacci. This one I can talk to at length considering I was the one who tried one last attempt to smooth things over between Jasin and his investors. Instead of helping, he completely stopped posting here and Litecointalk, along with delete his website. So he walked away with a cool mil or two of money.


The XC team defended him pretty hard, at first as a dev and then as a contributor, and that along with all of this recent information makes XC seem very shady to me. Again just an outsiders perspective.

if you recall in the summer, Jasin was actually active in XC threads for some time, and even posted in the XC thread regarding the ASICS. He assured the team and some community members that everything would get resolved. People shut up after this point and that is ultimately why XC defended him for the time being. As the summer went on, someone else brought up that fact about Jasin and Fibonacci again (months later) and it was at that time that XC reassessed the situation. It was also at this time that the team realized that this might be a much bigger issue than they anticipated, seeing as how no progress was really made with the situation. They dumped him right at the end of summer and released a general statement to the public. It may seem shady to some people what took place, but just realize that the team did correct the situation as it was hurting XC. AFAIK, Jasin did not contribute anything to XC other than offering his coding services, which he never fulfilled. It was a no brainer to cut ties with him if he was causing XC more harm than good. Its just sad that people somehow still think XC is related to Jasin and his ASIC project. People cannot get into contact to talk with Jasin, so they just go to the closest thing Jasin was associated with in XC, and start spamming the boards with speculation about XC being part of the issue. That has never been the case as Jasin's project was completely separate and irrelevant to XC. XC will also not go out of its way to talk with Jasin regarding the issue as it is none of their business and does not pertain to their coin at all. I dont understand why this issue keeps being brought up every now and then like people think the teaam is magically going to help them get their money back from Jasin.

Crap like this happens all the time in the real world, you might unknowingly hire employees who dont have the best reputations arounde  whether they are work or personal matters. Teams dont really do in depth screening processes. It generally works by someone offering their services, a negotiation takes place, then they are on the team. As a coder in crypto, it wouldn't take long to join a team if you are offering your skills because every coin is looking for that extra bit of human capital. It just so happens that XC brought on board somebody that was offering their services, who also had some discrepancies with their personal life project. XC however did do the right thing and removed him seeing as how the issue had not been resolved over several months.

[adhitthana]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

You really owe it to us to expand on this, It appears you have called Dan "scummy" but have made no attempt to justify that accusation.

[EyesWideOpen]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

You really owe it to us to expand on this, It appears you have called Dan "scummy" but have made no attempt to justify that accusation.

Are you visually impaired or mentally challenged?

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

I thought TheMage was being kind when using the word 'scummy'.
Dan is complicit in the Blocknet scam. It doesn't matter how you, ProfX or Synechist try to twist the story.

[Marlo Stanfield]

1) Dan drained the XC premine

We all knew from the very start that the premine would be used.

The actual point not addressed:

1) Dan drained the XC premine when there was a promise of transparency. And Synechist lied saying that it was drained by mid-September when in fact there was money being taken out of it up until late October according to the blockchain.

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

And you sidestep every single point on the list there. Congrats. Maybe XC should hire you as Synechist's assistant in the propaganda department.

Or if you're trolling though, then hats off I guess. At this point it's getting a bit ridiculous. You keep saying there's no evidence despite the fact that I just posted evidence which you conveniently left out of your reply.

Was HAL pumped after the Dan Metcalf code review which was presented to people as if he was an unbiased third party? The whole purpose of a code review is to have an unbiased third party review the code. Insiders don't count.

[Spoetnik]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

You really owe it to us to expand on this, It appears you have called Dan "scummy" but have made no attempt to justify that accusation.

Are you visually impaired or mentally challenged?

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

I thought TheMage was being kind when using the word 'scummy'.
Dan is complicit in the Blocknet scam. It doesn't matter how you, ProfX or Synechist try to twist the story.

you forgot to mention Bitcointalk is too by repeatedly hiding info on it.

i seen many topics with no substance on the matter added after mine and they left them here and deleted mine.
i even tried to pool all my info in one topic.. i guess to make it easy for them to nuke it in one shot.

my topic in my sig was deadly serious and not trolling and very on-topic for this board and FULL of truth and facts (proof)
and this place is complicit in the scam by hiding it !

i really do hope the fed's look hard at this place when handing out jail sentences.. these pricks deserve it !

If this place had any credibility it's looooooooooong gone.

[RichardT]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

Thanks for you input.  I'm curious, would you consider Dan doing a "code review" of Hal's anon code while giving the impression that he was an unbiased third party scammy or scummy?

As references, here is the skype screenshot (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2) and here is the code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

And you sidestep every single point on the list there. Congrats. Maybe XC should hire you as Synechist's assistant in the propaganda department.

Or if you're trolling though, then hats off I guess. At this point it's getting a bit ridiculous. You keep saying there's no evidence despite the fact that I just posted evidence which you conveniently left out of your reply.

Yeah, adhitthana also conveniently ignored the part of my post in which I linked the specific skype screenshot where Prom said that Dan "was the anon dev for HAL". (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2)

And this is after he kept saying that some of the things Prom says can be interpreted different ways.  So I linked this for him and asked him what he thought of it, but he has ignored it since.

I agree with you, at this point I think adhitthana might just be trolling all over the place.



My conclusion after trying to converse and reason with some XC/Blocknet supporters is that there are 3 possibilities:
1.  They refuse to look at the details and question them because they are afraid of what it may mean for their investment
2.  They have looked at the details, but are really that naive and do not understand the implications of the information that have come to light
3.  They have looked at the details and understand the implications, but do not care that the people behind it are unethical (i.e. knowingly supporting the scam)

[ProfX]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

Thanks for you input.  I'm curious, would you consider Dan doing a "code review" of Hal's anon code while giving the impression that he was an unbiased third party scammy or scummy?

As references, here is the skype screenshot (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2) and here is the code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

And you sidestep every single point on the list there. Congrats. Maybe XC should hire you as Synechist's assistant in the propaganda department.

Or if you're trolling though, then hats off I guess. At this point it's getting a bit ridiculous. You keep saying there's no evidence despite the fact that I just posted evidence which you conveniently left out of your reply.

Yeah, adhitthana also conveniently ignored the part of my post in which I posted the specific skype screenshot where Prom said that Dan "was the anon dev for HAL". (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2)

And this is after he kept saying that some of the things Prom says can be interpreted different ways.  I think saying "He was the anon dev for HAL" is quite clear.

I agree with you, at this point I think adhitthana might just be trolling all over the place.



My conclusions after trying to converse and reason with some XC/Blocknet supporters are:
1.  They refuse to look at the details because they are afraid of what it may mean for their investment
2.  They are really that naive and do not understand the implications of the information that have come to light
3.  They are knowingly supporting the scam and do not care that the people behind it are unethical

Lol, so you're on the side that thinks Dan is the super coder HAL dev as well as the XC dev? Hold on one second, let me find for you a troll that thinks Dan can't code. It would make for such an interesting debate. It would be like two retards fighting. And I find it ironic that you are calling us naive, chances are 99% of you haven't followed XC's development at all and are just regurgitating the same bullshit that other trolls began to speculate about. Not only that but going forward with the XC FUD would also seem to better your investment in SuperNET right. It's always a good thing to make your only major competitor look like a scam, deceiful, shaddy, that way you can capitalize. It's not surprising that the 3 major groups that are trolling XC are Super, SDC and DRK.

Super is a direct competitor and anything said to hurt block is useful for your sake. I even recall the BTCD dev tried to make a persuasive post claiming that BlockNET was in fact a scam and that SuperNET was not. Good job at marketing your project fuckface.
SDC has a terrible track record for trolling other coins that may appear to offer better technology or that will hurt profits for the few bagholders, this makes it the 5th time with XC. There is a 35 page thread that proves this as well on the main page.
DRK has always had a hateful relationship with XC. It was so bad that Evan and Dan had to make a joint statement to call off the FUD wars. It is not the least bit surprising to see some DRK fanboys taking shots at XC during this smear campaign.

[RichardT]

Lol, so you're on the side that thinks Dan is the super coder HAL dev as well as the XC dev? Hold on one second, let me find for you a troll that thinks Dan can't code. It would make for such an interesting debate. It would be like two retards fighting. And I find it ironic that you are calling us naive, chances are 99% of you haven't followed XC's development at all and are just regurgitating the same bullshit that other trolls began to speculate about. Not only that but going forward with the XC FUD would also seem to better your investment in SuperNET right. It's always a good thing to make your only major competitor look like a scam, deceiful, shaddy, that way you can capitalize. It's not surprising that the 3 major groups that are trolling XC are Super, SDC and DRK.

Super is a direct competitor and anything said to hurt block is useful for your sake. I even recall the BTCD dev tried to make a persuasive post claiming that BlockNET was in fact a scam and that SuperNET was not. Good job at marketing your project fuckface.
SDC has a terrible track record for trolling other coins that may appear to offer better technology or that will hurt profits for the few bagholders, this makes it the 5th time with XC. There is a 35 page thread that proves this as well on the main page.
DRK has always had a hateful relationship with XC. It was so bad that Evan and Dan had to make a joint statement to call off the FUD wars. It is not the least bit surprising to see some DRK fanboys taking shots at XC during this smear campaign.

Yes, I am invested in SuperNET.  I've never tried to hide that.  But no, I do not feel that Blocknet is a threat.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not even a competition.

And yes, I actually have been following XC's development for quite some time.  If you look at my post history, you can see that I used to be involved with Keycoin, which Dan also code reviewed.  This is how I first heard about Dan and XC.  However, after discovering that there were some odd things surrounding it, I followed my gut and decided to end my support for Keycoin.

Instead of constantly using the defense that "competitors are just out to FUD" (which is a rather weak defense btw), why not analyze some of the information that we actually have.  There's obviously a lot of things going on at once, so let's simplify it and look at one thing at a time.  Since adhitthana has not been able to respond to this, maybe you can:

Skype screenshot with Prom saying that Dan "was the anon dev for HAL" (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2)
HAL code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

What do you think this means and what are the implications?

[TheMage]

So here are my thoughts from an outsiders point of view (I have no involvement, or even really knowledge of what had happened, hell before this all blew up I had no idea who prom was until multiple people/sources state he is a P&Der, which is pretty scummy if you ask me).


Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.



I will say this however, and one more person to add to the list of people XC should have never been involved with was Jasin from Fibonacci. This one I can talk to at length considering I was the one who tried one last attempt to smooth things over between Jasin and his investors. Instead of helping, he completely stopped posting here and Litecointalk, along with delete his website. So he walked away with a cool mil or two of money.


The XC team defended him pretty hard, at first as a dev and then as a contributor, and that along with all of this recent information makes XC seem very shady to me. Again just an outsiders perspective.

if you recall in the summer, Jasin was actually active in XC threads for some time, and even posted in the XC thread regarding the ASICS. He assured the team and some community members that everything would get resolved. People shut up after this point and that is ultimately why XC defended him for the time being. As the summer went on, someone else brought up that fact about Jasin and Fibonacci again (months later) and it was at that time that XC reassessed the situation. It was also at this time that the team realized that this might be a much bigger issue than they anticipated, seeing as how no progress was really made with the situation. They dumped him right at the end of summer and released a general statement to the public. It may seem shady to some people what took place, but just realize that the team did correct the situation as it was hurting XC. AFAIK, Jasin did not contribute anything to XC other than offering his coding services, which he never fulfilled. It was a no brainer to cut ties with him if he was causing XC more harm than good. Its just sad that people somehow still think XC is related to Jasin and his ASIC project. People cannot get into contact to talk with Jasin, so they just go to the closest thing Jasin was associated with in XC, and start spamming the boards with speculation about XC being part of the issue. That has never been the case as Jasin's project was completely separate and irrelevant to XC. XC will also not go out of its way to talk with Jasin regarding the issue as it is none of their business and does not pertain to their coin at all. I dont understand why this issue keeps being brought up every now and then like people think the teaam is magically going to help them get their money back from Jasin.

Crap like this happens all the time in the real world, you might unknowingly hire employees who dont have the best reputations arounde  whether they are work or personal matters. Teams dont really do in depth screening processes. It generally works by someone offering their services, a negotiation takes place, then they are on the team. As a coder in crypto, it wouldn't take long to join a team if you are offering your skills because every coin is looking for that extra bit of human capital. It just so happens that XC brought on board somebody that was offering their services, who also had some discrepancies with their personal life project. XC however did do the right thing and removed him seeing as how the issue had not been resolved over several months.

Sorry I did not nor do I follow XC threads, nor did I even thought the two projects were intertwined. The relationship at the beginning was understandable, Jasin was a "known" person. And it's easier to trust known people. It just seemed to me he was hanging around a lot longer than he should be providing consultation or whatever it was called.

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

You really owe it to us to expand on this, It appears you have called Dan "scummy" but have made no attempt to justify that accusation.

I know you have been berated by the community, you should know im not one so there is no need to have a defensive tone. Its the association that seems scummy as EyesWideOpen pointed out. If this prom person is really a well known P&Der, and this was well known, and Dan or whomever (I guess maybe just Dan? Sorry im dont know whos role is what here aside from him lol) had knowledge of it, it would have been in his best interest to avoid him at all costs. It's hard in the alt coin world to gain trust, and just like real life as ProfX pointed out, there are just some people you dont associate with. I guess I'm saying is Dan or whomever should have known better, do you agree or disagree with this statement (unless im missing something)?


Let me put it into a better perspective (well an extreme one but a perspective non the less). I'm making an exchange (yes the one in my sig, Koinyx). How do you think the community would react if I decided to have Mark K or Alex green (moolah) on my team as consulting or some other non coding form (marketing, customer service, whatever)? The answer is pretty obvious, it would be a backlash.

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

Thanks for you input.  I'm curious, would you consider Dan doing a "code review" of Hal's anon code while giving the impression that he was an unbiased third party scammy or scummy?

As references, here is the skype screenshot (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2) and here is the code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

It really depends on a few factors such as was he paid, directly by someone or indirectly by building up trust for a pump and dump.







Im not here to troll or yell or accuse at all. I'm merely giving my opinions and thoughts, and they are leaning towards something not smelling right. I'm sorry, to me there is something going on with the relationships and pictures of convo's that seem to be very discouraging.

[RichardT]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

Thanks for you input.  I'm curious, would you consider Dan doing a "code review" of Hal's anon code while giving the impression that he was an unbiased third party scammy or scummy?

As references, here is the skype screenshot (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2) and here is the code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

It really depends on a few factors such as was he paid, directly by someone or indirectly by building up trust for a pump and dump.

Wait, did you even carefully read the screenshot and the code review I posted?  If you did, I don't think you would be considering that.

I guess this just goes to prove my point that some people really do not see the implications of this.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Everything that was posted is very concerning, but to me stops short of scamming. Rather, i'd like to use the word scummy instead since Dan associates with prom.

Thanks for you input.  I'm curious, would you consider Dan doing a "code review" of Hal's anon code while giving the impression that he was an unbiased third party scammy or scummy?

As references, here is the skype screenshot (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2) and here is the code review (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741728.msg8723167;topicseen#msg8723167)

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

And you sidestep every single point on the list there. Congrats. Maybe XC should hire you as Synechist's assistant in the propaganda department.

Or if you're trolling though, then hats off I guess. At this point it's getting a bit ridiculous. You keep saying there's no evidence despite the fact that I just posted evidence which you conveniently left out of your reply.

Yeah, adhitthana also conveniently ignored the part of my post in which I posted the specific skype screenshot where Prom said that Dan "was the anon dev for HAL". (http://imgur.com/a/1xbWq#2)

And this is after he kept saying that some of the things Prom says can be interpreted different ways.  I think saying "He was the anon dev for HAL" is quite clear.

I agree with you, at this point I think adhitthana might just be trolling all over the place.



My conclusions after trying to converse and reason with some XC/Blocknet supporters are:
1.  They refuse to look at the details because they are afraid of what it may mean for their investment
2.  They are really that naive and do not understand the implications of the information that have come to light
3.  They are knowingly supporting the scam and do not care that the people behind it are unethical

Lol, so you're on the side that thinks Dan is the super coder HAL dev as well as the XC dev? Hold on one second, let me find for you a troll that thinks Dan can't code. It would make for such an interesting debate. It would be like two retards fighting. And I find it ironic that you are calling us naive, chances are 99% of you haven't followed XC's development at all and are just regurgitating the same bullshit that other trolls began to speculate about. Not only that but going forward with the XC FUD would also seem to better your investment in SuperNET right. It's always a good thing to make your only major competitor look like a scam, deceiful, shaddy, that way you can capitalize. It's not surprising that the 3 major groups that are trolling XC are Super, SDC and DRK.

Super is a direct competitor and anything said to hurt block is useful for your sake. I even recall the BTCD dev tried to make a persuasive post claiming that BlockNET was in fact a scam and that SuperNET was not. Good job at marketing your project fuckface.
SDC has a terrible track record for trolling other coins that may appear to offer better technology or that will hurt profits for the few bagholders, this makes it the 5th time with XC. There is a 35 page thread that proves this as well on the main page.
DRK has always had a hateful relationship with XC. It was so bad that Evan and Dan had to make a joint statement to call off the FUD wars. It is not the least bit surprising to see some DRK fanboys taking shots at XC during this smear campaign.

There are many possible scenarios indicated by the language that Dan has used to describe his relationship with HAL. I personally think he has at least some coding ability, and potentially lots, but we do know that he outsources a large amount of his coding. Dan repeatedly made statements like "I didn't code for HAL", which may very well be true statements. There exsits many possibilities in between where he could have still developed for HAL, but outsourced the actual coding. Prometheus mentioned that Dan 'took the HAL anon to another level', he may have designed it and had Christian Howe code it. He may have not done that, and simply worked with Promethus on a strictly theoretical level, outlining the tech while Prometheus paid his own man to code it(although the 'Dan's coin' talk from both Prom and Coinada makes this seem less likely). So while there are many different scenarios that might have taken place - and we're obviously not going to be getting the full truth anytime soon - either Prom and Coinada are lying about Dan's involvement in HAL, or Dan had some level of involvement in it.

If Prom and Coinada are not lying, then was it unethical for Dan to do a code review for HAL?

If Prom and Coinada are lying, and Dan had actually had zero involvement with HAL specifically before the code review ,would it be ethical for him to review HAL's code considering by this time he was already involved with Prometheus?

If this seemingly unlikely course of events look place, it still reflects very poorly on Dan. All of those code reviews did. Even when we as a community naively assumed that he was in fact an unbiased third party. The community at large certainly did not know about his connection with Prometheus. If you think that would have been ignored after reading the XC thread where multiple members put forth the belief that XC was somehow different and not associated with the shady underground of altcoins, then you weren't paying attention. The XC echo chamber shielded many of those community members from the true opinions of people, but I can guarantee you that you could mention XC on any trollbox or non XC thread and hear some real opinions about XC and Dan Metcalf. If you think I'm lying, I'd advise you to try it sometime posing as someone making a legit inquiry about XC and watch the reactions you get.

I've been following XC since the 500k bubble. To say that the community at large hasn't widely considered XC to be shady would be either a lie at worse and ignorant at best. Everything from the loljosh clone launch, to the defense of Jasinlee, to the closed source and moderated threads, and then the kiss of death code reviews gave XC and Dan one of the worst reputations among people in the community not directly involved in pump groups(who if course couldn't care less about ethics). The code reviews specifically - even before all of these new revelations about the Promethus connection - were already widely considered desperate and damaging to Dan's personal reputation. There's a reason he's not going to be doing code reviews anymore. And it's certainly not the thousands of dollars he was receiving that's making him stop, he knew what kind of lasting damage they were doing.

You and Dan a use a similar strategy of replying 'which is it, Dan can't code, or Dan is the lead developer for HAL? Dan is Prometheus, or am I Wolong now?' attempting to avoid the points by taking speculations from other people which are irrelevant to the current point and attempting to use them to make peoples specific unrelated arguments seem absurd. I can tell you are close to XC and Dan, for a while I thought you might be Dan himself, I'm not sure. Doesn't really matter though.

Without the FUD meme that's been used to brainwash XC supporters in to ignoring even the slightest consideration of evidence, or even question things with some basic critical thinking skills, would XC even be around today? Debate and discussion that could even just potentially imply some negativity towards XC is outlawed, and the results are kind of amazing. The true believers are seemingly immune to even questioning any idea that might result in XC being negatively impacted. It's on a level that I've never seen before in altcoins and it's actually kind of fascinating. The only thing that gives me some pause is that a lot of these true believers are actually sock puppets, but I'm pretty sure that I can tell there are still a significant amount of legit individuals. I'd like to see how long XC can keep this thing going. Price will likely have little effect on people now as most will already consider it not worth the damage to their ego to sell their bag, and it's XC's specialty to sell followers on the idea of green pastures just around the corner. But as the financial incentive goes away for the XC team, the effort that it takes to maintain the community delusion will begin to fade. XC isn't going to magically become a successful altcoin now, especially not after this. It's just question of when it will finally fade away.

[RichardT]

There are many possible scenarios indicated by the language that Dan has used to describe his relationship with HAL. I personally think he has at least some coding ability, and potentially lots, but we do know that he outsources a large amount of his coding. Dan repeatedly made statements like "I didn't code for HAL", which may very well be true statements. There exsits many possibilities in between where he could have still developed for HAL, but outsourced the actual coding. Prometheus mentioned that Dan 'took the HAL anon to another level', he may have designed it and had Christian Howe code it. He may have not done that, and simply worked with Promethus on a strictly theoretical level, outlining the tech while Prometheus paid his own man to code it(although the 'Dan's coin' talk from both Prom and Coinada makes this seem less likely). So while there are many different scenarios that might have taken place - and we're obviously not going to be getting the full truth anytime soon - either Prom and Coinada are lying about Dan's involvement in HAL, or Dan had some level of involvement in it.

If Prom and Coinada are not lying, then was it unethical for Dan to do a code review for HAL?

If Prom and Coinada are lying, and Dan had actually had zero involvement with HAL specifically before the code review ,would it be ethical for him to review HAL's code considering by this time he was already involved with Prometheus?

If this seemingly unlikely course of events look place, it still reflects very poorly on Dan. All of those code reviews did. Even when we as a community naively assumed that he was in fact an unbiased third party. The community at large certainly did not know about his connection with Prometheus. If you think that would have been ignored after reading the XC thread where multiple members put forth the belief that XC was somehow different and not associated with the shady underground of altcoins, then you weren't paying attention. The XC echo chamber shielded many of those community members from the true opinions of people, but I can guarantee you that you could mention XC on any trollbox or non XC thread and hear some real opinions about XC and Dan Metcalf. If you think I'm lying, I'd advise you to try it sometime posing as someone making a legit inquiry about XC and watch the reactions you get.

I've been following XC since the 500k bubble. To say that the community at large hasn't widely considered XC to be shady would be either a lie at worse and ignorant at best. Everything from the loljosh clone launch, to the defense of Jasinlee, to the closed source and moderated threads, and then the kiss of death code reviews gave XC and Dan one of the worst reputations among people in the community not directly involved in pump groups(who if course couldn't care less about ethics). The code reviews specifically - even before all of these new revelations about the Promethus connection - were already widely considered desperate and damaging to Dan's personal reputation. There's a reason he's not going to be doing code reviews anymore. And it's certainly not the thousands of dollars he was receiving that's making him stop, he knew what kind of lasting damage they were doing.

You and Dan a use a similar strategy of replying 'which is it, Dan can't code, or Dan is the lead developer for HAL? Dan is Prometheus, or am I Wolong now?' attempting to avoid the points by taking speculations from other people which are irrelevant to the current point and attempting to use them to make peoples specific unrelated arguments seem absurd. I can tell you are close to XC and Dan, for a while I thought you might be Dan himself, I'm not sure. Doesn't really matter though.

Without the FUD meme that's been used to brainwash XC supporters in to ignoring even the slightest consideration of evidence, or even question things with some basic critical thinking skills, would XC even be around today? Debate and discussion that could even just potentially imply some negativity towards XC is outlawed, and the results are kind of amazing. The true believers are seemingly immune to even questioning any idea that might result in XC being negatively impacted. It's on a level that I've never seen before in altcoins and it's actually kind of fascinating. The only thing that gives me some pause is that a lot of these true believers are actually sock puppets, but I'm pretty sure that I can tell there are still a significant amount of legit individuals. I'd like to see how long XC can keep this thing going. Price will likely have little effect on people now as most will already consider it not worth the damage to their ego to sell their bag, and it's XC's specialty to sell followers on the idea of green pastures just around the corner. But as the financial incentive goes away for the XC team, the effort that it takes to maintain the community delusion will begin to fade. XC isn't going to magically become a successful altcoin now, especially not after this. It's just question of when it will finally fade away.

Some very good points here.  It's funny that some of us are trying to analyze all this and considering multiple possibilities, while all that some of the XC/Blocknet supporters could consider is that everything must be FUD.  Brainwashed is probably an appropriate term here.

The observations that you made in your last paragraph are some of the same ones that I have made.  I guess I should add sock puppet accounts to my list of possible types of supporters.

My conclusion after trying to converse and reason with some XC/Blocknet supporters is that there are 3 4 possibilities:
1.  They refuse to look at the details and question them because they are afraid of what it may mean for their investment
2.  They have looked at the details, but are really that naive and do not understand the implications of the information that have come to light
3.  They have looked at the details and understand the implications, but do not care that the people behind it are unethical (i.e. knowingly supporting the scam)
4.  They are sock puppet accounts

[adhitthana]

1) Dan drained the XC premine

We all knew from the very start that the premine would be used.

The actual point not addressed:

1) Dan drained the XC premine when there was a promise of transparency. And Synechist lied saying that it was drained by mid-September when in fact there was money being taken out of it up until late October according to the blockchain.

It was not addressed for two reasons.
!. You provided no evidence.
2. Even if it is true you are nitpickning. You have nothing really solid to go on so you are clutching at straws. So what if the XC PR guy whilst hastily replying to loads of posts made that slight error.
Get serious.

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

Yes I'm serious as explained above. You are not.
You guys aren't serious, All you have done is inundate the XC PR guy with all manner of inaccurate complaints  and then when one small error is made by someone to jump on it and pretend you care.
If you guys really cared you be complaining about the multitude of real scams.
As I keep saying. Dan is working on something that if successful will provide an avenue for many coins to succeed.
This focus is very important because as Dan rightly pointed out, unless altcoins stop fighting and work together, IBM..or some other entity that cares nothing for the many altcoins will steal our thunder.


What are you doing for altcoins?

[adhitthana]

There are many possible scenarios indicated by the language that Dan has used to describe his relationship with HAL.

Yes but only one scenario makes sense in the light of the other evidence.
We know that many other coins asked Dan to review their code.
You suddenly want to make this case different.

I personally think he has at least some coding ability, and potentially lots, but we do know that he outsources a large amount of his coding.

No we don't know that.
What we know is that in making a coin they are all based on Bitcoin to large degree, so any smart person would get a third party to do the grunt work.

This is all that happened but for some reason you don't even have this very basic understanding of what actually happened...

[adhitthana]

Some very good points here.  It's funny that some of us are trying to analyze all this and considering multiple possibilities,

It's called "Ochams Razor". The simplest explanation is the best explanation
You will consider any explanation no matter how imbecilic, and ignore the obvious explanation
Dan was asked to review many coins, and so he reviewed HAL.

Some how you want Dan to be merely a reviewer of all the other coins but suddenly, when it suits you, he stops being a reviewer and becomes the developer of HAL.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

[Marlo Stanfield]

1) Dan drained the XC premine

We all knew from the very start that the premine would be used.

The actual point not addressed:

1) Dan drained the XC premine when there was a promise of transparency. And Synechist lied saying that it was drained by mid-September when in fact there was money being taken out of it up until late October according to the blockchain.

It was not addressed for two reasons.
!. You provided no evidence.
2. Even if it is true you are nitpickning. You have nothing really solid to go on so you are clutching at straws. So what if the XC PR guy whilst hastily replying to loads of posts made that slight error.
Get serious.

Are you serious with this? Is there some sort of "XC community guide to not addressing the actual issues and deflecting arguments" written by Synechist? Why do you pick out only parts of statements and address them as if none of the other text exists?

Yes I'm serious as explained above. You are not.

http://www.reddit.com/r/XCofficialreddit/comments/26qqrq/xc_premine_wallet_made_public/

These funds will be used strictly for development, community growth. Any amount spent will be made public knowledge in our continued effort of transparency. If you have any questions, comment below or drop in on our IRC live chat.

There was no communication what so ever until some one in October noticed that the funds had been spent. No accounting made of what these funds were spent on.

You know these things but you seem to be just trying to extract the maximum amount of time out of me in making me dig up every single quote...

I also seem to remember that the last 12k taken out in late October were used to buy BLOCK. But I don't have the time right now to find the quotes. I could be wrong on that one. You could save me the time and just tell me if you remember that being the case.

And Syncechist did not make an error. He said he was told by Dan himself were drained by mid-September. Now I'm going to have to find this quote because I worry a lot of the things I bring up in these points will be edited out/deleted.

Before I go waste some more time finding what Synechist said, if you simply don't care whether these people are ethical or unethical then there's little point in hashing out all the specific things that have happened. Because I'm going to assume that if you've been following XC, you either don't care or your cognitive dissonance is at a level where short of Dan just walking away with peoples money, you'll believe in XC no matter what.

Here's where Synechist relayed the information that Dan told him: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg9384143#msg9384143

Why 12k was spent in late October has yet to be addressed even though very many of even the hardestcore XC believers specifically asked for an accounting.

What Synechist would say would be something a long the lines of "The premine was spent on exactly what it was meant to be spent on: community development and XC development.". Perhaps it was, but given that there was zero transparency even after it was stated that there would be, there's no accounting of that what so ever.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg9380810#msg9380810

btw the theorie of dan cashing out and moving to blocknet is nonsense since blocknet would be done with his reputation killed like that.  

People in XC will say things like this before but as time goes on they have a short memory.