Tips on not getting scammed & a fun callout to serious devs.

[Fuserleer]

Peoples,

I'm getting tired of all the scams on here of the so called "developers" of crypto-currencies, duping people into investing with fancy artwork and blurby (but ambiguous) text.  

It gives ALL of the serious developers in this forum a bad rep, yet its a typical case of the few spoiling it for the many.....actually, it probably isn't, there are WAY more scammy developers that couldn't even put a "Hello World" together without a tutorial than real ones...hmmm.....anyway.

Of course, you investors are partly to blame as you seem to let the fear of missing the next big thing warp your logic to make it emotional.  PLEASE do some due diligence into the developers that you are planning to invest into.  Fake developers are easy to spot if you know what to look for, as are real ones.

Before I get to the topic heading subject matter, here are some tips for telling the difference between serious & fake developers:

1)  Any developer that wants to stay anonymous, RUN!  Gone are the days where this was acceptable, because back then, there was no money to be made ripping people off, so anonymous developers were not a threat

2)  Verify the developers credentials, don't just take his word for it.  A passport picture with the signature and numbers blurred out, and a 2nd/3rd or even 4th picture of that same person doing something crypto related should also be provided.  If the developer is willing, other proof should be provided, it doesn't have to be addresses where they live (unless they are willing to go that far), but a Linked-In account that is aged, or Facebook, even Twitter...can all provide credence to that persons identity.

3)  Voice/Video call them over Skype, or a few of you band together and one of you call them.  An honest developer won't mind, a crooked one will, as they wont have the time to think up lies for your questions, and listening to someones voice can give a lot of tell tale signals as to if they are lying.  Video call is even better, as you'll have a visual and audio queue for any tell tale signs of lying.

4)  Check into their background.  Almost any developer that is skilled enough to develop a crypto-currency (even a BTC code clone with new features) will have done something in the past that has been released and they can prove they worked on.  Ask about previous projects, papers, hell even activity on developer related forums will give you some idea if they know what they are on about.

5)  Developers releasing a new currency should be dedicated, as creating and launching one successfully is akin to starting a business, its hard work and requires 100% dedication to the project.  If they are always unavailable, or on holiday, or "ill", then they probably aren't that dedicated to the cause.  Remember though, some of these real devs also have day jobs & families, so many can't be online daily 24/7...but if its weeks between updates, even on their own forums, leave.

6)  Infrastructure.  Any serious developer would have a website, forum, email etc etc setup for the project they are working on.  No real developer, that was proud of what they were doing would run a project from here with a 1000 page thread.  That is insane and shows either lack of commitment, or just pure disorganization.  Real developers will want a home for that project, and will want to have a community..they will NOT run it from Bitcoin talk!  

7)  Finally, and this is my fun call out to our developers here.  Any developer worth his salt, especially developing a P2P distributed system like a crypto currency will have gear, and probably quite a good stack of it.  Someone developing a crypto on an solitary old laptop isn't going to cut it.  Real developers will invest into hardware to get the job done before they even ask for any investment, and most likely will have collected plenty of gear over the years from previous projects they have done in the past.  At the very least, they'll probably have a laptop & a desktop in their arsenal.  If your developer is coding on a single Asus Netbook, I'd probably walk away.

So developers, please post your development setups for all to be awed at and prove your worth in regard to point 7 of my "don't get scammed tips".  If you are so hardcore as to have so much stuff you need multiple pictures, please post it.

Whoever has a setup better than this from Swordfish gets a prize

[gjhiggins]

here are some tips for telling the difference between serious & fake developers:

I've been working on a possible scorecard, just for sh*ts and giggles:

http://minkiz.co/posting/


Cheers

Graham

[skywave]

@gjhiggins

I had a look at your 'scorecard'..
OK if it's for giggles it's cool..
If it is meant to be reasons of making a serious developer legitimate I would immediately remove the Open Source row..

If indeed all Dan's points above are fulfilled - then a serious investor would not have to question if it is Open Source or not. The mere public credentials of that developer would be solid enough to TRUST that developer.

If a developer dedicates several years of his life to a project he believes in and he want to make it into a good and solid business for everyone to benefit from in an honest and ethical correct fashion, then of course he need to keep his source/codes to himself, until that day when everyone knows it is HIS project.
Then and only then can he start thinking about how much of the source he can safely disclose to the public, and still be in charge of his business..

It is not for bad reasons an honest developer does not want to disclose his coding in public, it is fear of losing his lifework!
Give him time - show him you trust his brilliant work - then he will show you trust.
There are still honest business people on this planet. Dan is one of them I can guarantee you!

[CryptoJerk]

can one of you peasants tell me the definition of "scam" and how this definition applies to an ICO?

[biggus dickus]

can one of you peasants tell me the definition of "scam" and how this definition applies to an ICO?

IMO the thread linked to below says it all, together with the screenshot of the OP (recently modified by the "dev").

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=746191.0

[rugrats]

1. Yes, yes, yes!
2. All easily faked, unfortunately.
3. Yes. While a lot of people lie, most will usually wilt under scrutiny. Unless they are pathological liars or psychopaths.
4. Helpful, but inconclusive.
5. Yes.
6. Ooh, this stings! "No real developer, that was proud of what they were doing would run a project from here with a 1000 page thread"
7. You didn't number it, so I am having trouble responding.

here are some tips for telling the difference between serious & fake developers:

I've been working on a possible scorecard, just for sh*ts and giggles:

http://minkiz.co/posting/


Cheers

Graham

Graham, I saw your response to a new member requesting for help on wallet nodes a few days ago.
You took the time to write a lengthy response to him. I thought that was really nice of you.
Was browsing from a phone at the time, so I couldn't commend your gesture then (typing with my thumbs tend to make English sound like Swahili).

[cloudboy]

Everyone should have a good look at github.com/jl777/btcd

SuperNET is the future of cryptocurrencies.

[WowWtf]

can one of you peasants tell me the definition of "scam" and how this definition applies to an ICO?

IMO the thread linked to below says it all, together with the screenshot of the OP (recently modified by the "dev").

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=746191.0



http://s22.postimg.org/m7rs43pj5/image.png

yup, im glad not too many people invested in nxt's ipo when my one btc turned into around 2,000 btc, would of hurt my own gains. everyone please listen to biggus dickus.

[biggus dickus]

yup, im glad not too many people invested in nxt's ipo when my one btc turned into around 2,000 btc, would of hurt my own gains. everyone please listen to biggus dickus.

Nevertheless, how many bitcoins did EQX IPO investors make? I'm not saying all IPOs are scams, but the EQX one obviously was. Are you telling us it was a great idea to invest in the EQX IPO, or that all IPOs will make you a fortune?

How did you manage to invest in the NXT IPO considering you registered on October 26, 2014? The NXT IPO was in 2013.

[jabo38]

Good tips from the OP.

The OP has been around a long time and even has a fundraiser or two while try make a new platform and speaks from experience.

[WowWtf]

yup, im glad not too many people invested in nxt's ipo when my one btc turned into around 2,000 btc, would of hurt my own gains. everyone please listen to biggus dickus.

Nevertheless, how many bitcoins did EQX IPO investors make? I'm not saying all IPOs are scams, but the EQX one obviously was. Are you telling us it was a great idea to invest in the EQX IPO, or that all IPOs will make you a fortune?

How did you manage to invest in the NXT IPO considering you registered on October 26, 2014? The NXT IPO was in 2013.

I'm glad because you dont know that you're allowed to make more than 1 bitcointalk account, and that my oldest was made in 2011. Phew.

[gjhiggins]

If a developer dedicates several years of his life to a project he believes in and he want to make it into a good and solid business for everyone to benefit from in an honest and ethical correct fashion, then of course he need to keep his source/codes to himself, until that day when everyone knows it is HIS project. Then and only then can he start thinking about how much of the source he can safely disclose to the public, and still be in charge of his business..

You are apparently oblivious to your implicit assumption that an honest dev is also, apparently by magic, a capable dev. Open Source isn't about the dev's integrity, it's about being able to ascertain the correctness of the implementation. No-one of consequence gives a monkey's fart about whether the dev is as straight as a die or as crooked as a corkscrew, it's all about whether the code does the job it's supposed to.

It is not for bad reasons an honest developer does not want to disclose his coding in public, it is fear of losing his lifework!

That's risibly simplistic, you are clearly unaware of the nonsensical nature of your argument. You need to address your profound unfamiliarity with the domain of FOSS licencing, only then will you be in a position to mount a coherent argument. I suggest you start with the wikipedia entry for FOSS.

Give him time - show him you trust his brilliant work - then he will show you trust. There are still honest business people on this planet. Dan is one of them I can guarantee you!

I presume you are referring to Dan Metcalfe. I've no idea why you chose to introduce that irrelevance but I regret to advise you that you've strayed well out of your depth and that has led you to make unforced errors:

1. I'll thank you not to insult my intelligence by offering me a vacuous guarantee that you patently have no means of securing.

2. Your choice of offensively patronising tone is unfortunate, it lends a keen irony to the fact that you have just embarrassed yourself, assuming you have any such sensibility. Earlier today I submitted a PR containing several fixes to the BlockNet code that had apparently slipped atcsecure's notice: https://github.com/atcsecure/blocknet/pull/2.

3. I'll leave you to reconcile the above fact with your claim of brilliance.

We can continue this discussion after you've acquired some basic factual knowledge about FOSS principles and practice.

Cheers

Graham

[drkman]

Everyone should have a good look at github.com/jl777/btcd

SuperNET is the future of cryptocurrencies.

And jl777 is making the very P2P system that the original OP spoke of and it will be a core feature of Vericoin.

[biggus dickus]

yup, im glad not too many people invested in nxt's ipo when my one btc turned into around 2,000 btc, would of hurt my own gains. everyone please listen to biggus dickus.

Nevertheless, how many bitcoins did EQX IPO investors make? I'm not saying all IPOs are scams, but the EQX one obviously was. Are you telling us it was a great idea to invest in the EQX IPO, or that all IPOs will make you a fortune?

How did you manage to invest in the NXT IPO considering you registered on October 26, 2014? The NXT IPO was in 2013.

I'm glad because you dont know that you're allowed to make more than 1 bitcointalk account, and that my oldest was made in 2011. Phew.

Are you prepared to prove that by posting here from your oldest account you say was made in 2011? As you say you're allowed to make more than 1 bitcointalk account, so there is nothing stopping you.

The original NXT IPO thread is here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0

It gives this IPO address

https://blockchain.info/address/1BCN1ugdKdWd9pQ8Am9hMhtHZfmbXzxE8a

Only about 8 people invested a whole bitcoin, and nobody invested more than one. If you don't want to post here from your oldest bitcointalk account, perhaps you could sign a message from the bitcoin address you say you used for the NXT IPO. That would prove you were one of the eight people to invest a whole bitcoin into the NXT IPO.

[WowWtf]

yup, im glad not too many people invested in nxt's ipo when my one btc turned into around 2,000 btc, would of hurt my own gains. everyone please listen to biggus dickus.

Nevertheless, how many bitcoins did EQX IPO investors make? I'm not saying all IPOs are scams, but the EQX one obviously was. Are you telling us it was a great idea to invest in the EQX IPO, or that all IPOs will make you a fortune?

How did you manage to invest in the NXT IPO considering you registered on October 26, 2014? The NXT IPO was in 2013.

I'm glad because you dont know that you're allowed to make more than 1 bitcointalk account, and that my oldest was made in 2011. Phew.

Are you prepared to prove that by posting here from your oldest account you say was made in 2011? As you say you're allowed to make more than 1 bitcointalk account, so there is nothing stopping you.

The original NXT IPO thread is here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0

It gives this IPO address

https://blockchain.info/address/1BCN1ugdKdWd9pQ8Am9hMhtHZfmbXzxE8a

Only about 8 people invested a whole bitcoin, and nobody invested more than one. If you don't want to post here from your oldest bitcointalk account, perhaps you could sign a message from the bitcoin address you say you used for the NXT IPO. That would prove you were one of the eight people to invest a whole bitcoin into the NXT IPO.

I'm glad to know that I'm one of those eight people, which one, idk.

[noelmal]

Peoples,

I'm getting tired of all the scams on here of the so called "developers" of crypto-currencies, duping people into investing with fancy artwork and blurby (but ambiguous) text.  

It gives ALL of the serious developers in this forum a bad rep, yet its a typical case of the few spoiling it for the many.....actually, it probably isn't, there are WAY more scammy developers that couldn't even put a "Hello World" together without a tutorial than real ones...hmmm.....anyway.

Of course, you investors are partly to blame as you seem to let the fear of missing the next big thing warp your logic to make it emotional.  PLEASE do some due diligence into the developers that you are planning to invest into.  Fake developers are easy to spot if you know what to look for, as are real ones.

Before I get to the topic heading subject matter, here are some tips for telling the difference between serious & fake developers:

1)  Any developer that wants to stay anonymous, RUN!  Gone are the days where this was acceptable, because back then, there was no money to be made ripping people off, so anonymous developers were not a threat

2)  Verify the developers credentials, don't just take his word for it.  A passport picture with the signature and numbers blurred out, and a 2nd/3rd or even 4th picture of that same person doing something crypto related should also be provided.  If the developer is willing, other proof should be provided, it doesn't have to be addresses where they live (unless they are willing to go that far), but a Linked-In account that is aged, or Facebook, even Twitter...can all provide credence to that persons identity.

3)  Voice/Video call them over Skype, or a few of you band together and one of you call them.  An honest developer won't mind, a crooked one will, as they wont have the time to think up lies for your questions, and listening to someones voice can give a lot of tell tale signals as to if they are lying.  Video call is even better, as you'll have a visual and audio queue for any tell tale signs of lying.

4)  Check into their background.  Almost any developer that is skilled enough to develop a crypto-currency (even a BTC code clone with new features) will have done something in the past that has been released and they can prove they worked on.  Ask about previous projects, papers, hell even activity on developer related forums will give you some idea if they know what they are on about.

5)  Developers releasing a new currency should be dedicated, as creating and launching one successfully is akin to starting a business, its hard work and requires 100% dedication to the project.  If they are always unavailable, or on holiday, or "ill", then they probably aren't that dedicated to the cause.  Remember though, some of these real devs also have day jobs & families, so many can't be online daily 24/7...but if its weeks between updates, even on their own forums, leave.

6)  Infrastructure.  Any serious developer would have a website, forum, email etc etc setup for the project they are working on.  No real developer, that was proud of what they were doing would run a project from here with a 1000 page thread.  That is insane and shows either lack of commitment, or just pure disorganization.  Real developers will want a home for that project, and will want to have a community..they will NOT run it from Bitcoin talk!  

7)  Finally, and this is my fun call out to our developers here.  Any developer worth his salt, especially developing a P2P distributed system like a crypto currency will have gear, and probably quite a good stack of it.  Someone developing a crypto on an solitary old laptop isn't going to cut it.  Real developers will invest into hardware to get the job done before they even ask for any investment, and most likely will have collected plenty of gear over the years from previous projects they have done in the past.  At the very least, they'll probably have a laptop & a desktop in their arsenal.  If your developer is coding on a single Asus Netbook, I'd probably walk away.

So developers, please post your development setups for all to be awed at and prove your worth in regard to point 7 of my "don't get scammed tips".  If you are so hardcore as to have so much stuff you need multiple pictures, please post it.

Whoever has a setup better than this from Swordfish gets a prize

No one with half a brain would take this talk by you even half serious after you pulled the old tried and tested (a billion times before) someone stole my bitcoin scam.

[Fuserleer]

 

Jog on troll! No billy goats on the bridge for you today.

[Ix]

No one with half a brain would take this talk by you even half serious after you pulled the old tried and tested (a billion times before) someone stole my bitcoin scam.

AFAIK he didn't close up shop and refuse to make any refunds afterwards, but the exact opposite...

And to the OP, most of this stuff is common sense (although I don't get the tone or the point of 7), but there aren't many people with common sense on bctalk. As an outside observer of the bitcoin and altcoin economy, it makes a lot of sense if you viewed the whole thing as a pyramid scheme from the beginning. I think Satoshi set a very bad precedent, and he also knew it. Instead of uniting a community, it is totally fractured based on greed.

[Fuserleer]

No one with half a brain would take this talk by you even half serious after you pulled the old tried and tested (a billion times before) someone stole my bitcoin scam.

AFAIK he didn't close up shop and refuse to make any refunds afterwards, but the exact opposite...

And to the OP, most of this stuff is common sense (although I don't get the tone or the point of 7), but there aren't many people with common sense on bctalk. As an outside observer of the bitcoin and altcoin economy, it makes a lot of sense if you viewed the whole thing as a pyramid scheme from the beginning. I think Satoshi set a very bad precedent, and he also knew it. Instead of uniting a community, it is totally fractured based on greed.

Thanks for that!

Yeah common sense indeed, but cant hurt to say it again!  Point 7 is meant to just be a bit of fun, and allow people to get a glimpse of what true developers use everyday.

Its not just fractured on greed but egos & arrogance too, if only we could get back to the early BTC days where everyone had a more common goal....but alas, times passed and lost

[rugrats]

No one with half a brain would take this talk by you even half serious after you pulled the old tried and tested (a billion times before) someone stole my bitcoin scam.

AFAIK he didn't close up shop and refuse to make any refunds afterwards, but the exact opposite...

And to the OP, most of this stuff is common sense (although I don't get the tone or the point of 7), but there aren't many people with common sense on bctalk. As an outside observer of the bitcoin and altcoin economy, it makes a lot of sense if you viewed the whole thing as a pyramid scheme from the beginning. I think Satoshi set a very bad precedent, and he also knew it. Instead of uniting a community, it is totally fractured based on greed.

I completely and absolutely disagree.

Satoshi created a revolutionary currency model  - if you call that a "bad precedent", perhaps you're on the wrong side of the wall.
There was no "community" before Satoshi - he built the community based on a generational leap in socioeconomics theory and cryptographic utility.
As far as "fracturing" the community, Satoshi made his position quite clear during the early days with BitDNS (the precursor to Namecoin).

I think it would be possible for BitDNS to be a completely separate network and separate block chain, yet share CPU power with Bitcoin.  The only overlap is to make it so miners can search for proof-of-work for both networks simultaneously.

The networks wouldn't need any coordination.  Miners would subscribe to both networks in parallel.  They would scan SHA such that if they get a hit, they potentially solve both at once.  A solution may be for just one of the networks if one network has a lower difficulty.

I think an external miner could call getwork on both programs and combine the work.  Maybe call Bitcoin, get work from it, hand it to BitDNS getwork to combine into a combined work.

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power.  This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.  Instead, all networks in the world would share combined CPU power, increasing the total strength.  It would make it easier for small networks to get started by tapping into a ready base of miners.

The advent and, subsequently, abuse and corruption of alternative cryptocurrencies is a byproduct of capitalism, human greed and the apathy of the forum administrators.