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Author Topic: Mail Dwolla money?  (Read 1405 times)
madmadmax
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June 03, 2012, 11:55:28 AM
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Is there a service that will mail physical money to the specified address for a fee from your PayPal/Dwolla
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Cryptoman
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June 03, 2012, 04:11:29 PM
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By "physical money," do you mean cash?  It sounds like a risky proposition as the Paypal/Dwolla transaction could be reversed by the sender after the cash is sent.  On the other hand, you could probably find someone in the destination city to hand off cash to someone else after receiving a Bitcoin payment.

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June 04, 2012, 03:52:44 AM
 #3

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Is there a service that will mail physical money to the specified address for a fee from your PayPal/Dwolla

PayPal, I can't imagine anyone offering that directly.  

There is a party offering to mail out cash for bitcoins, so if you were to convert your PayPal or Dwolla first to bitcoins, then withdraw using this cash-in-the-mail nobody would be the wiser.  But it isn't cheap!
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82983.0

As far as a Dwolla service that does this, Dwolla's terms of service were changed recently and expressly forbids this.  Here's the section from their TOS:

You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
 - Use the Dwolla system to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
 - Use the Dwolla System without written consent in association with any online credit or virtual currency system;

So even if you found a party that does this that would violate your terms of service.  That said, there hasn't been anyone reporting that Dwolla has closed accounts or frozen funds for doing account-to-account (A2A) transfers that are in violation.  That doesn't mean they won't start doing that, just that to-date, nobody has reported that Dwolla is doing this yet.

Because of the risk of a reversal, offering this type of exchange is as risky as accepting Dwolla in exchange for bitcoins (except that there is a mailing address, but since that could be a personal mail box (PMB) or other drop point, that may not mean much).

There might be an announcement forthcoming from BitInstant in which there is the ability to cash out USDs from an exchange and pick up that cash at WalMart.

In the meantime, the service listed above is about the only cash-in-the-mail method offered.  Another option is to buy a reloadable card and load it with MoneyPak and then visit an ATM to withdraw:
 - http://www.BTCPak.com

Also some prepaid debit cards also can be used for direct deposit accounts.  Walmart's MoneyCard is one such card:
 - https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/AcctMgmt/Content/Common/AddFunds/ACHBankAccount.aspx

So you withdraw from Dwolla to the prepaid debit card.  And from there visit an ATM.

Or do a Western Union transfer to yourself, etc.

madmadmax
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June 04, 2012, 05:41:58 PM
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Is there a service that will mail physical money to the specified address for a fee from your PayPal/Dwolla

PayPal, I can't imagine anyone offering that directly.  

There is a party offering to mail out cash for bitcoins, so if you were to convert your PayPal or Dwolla first to bitcoins, then withdraw using this cash-in-the-mail nobody would be the wiser.  But it isn't cheap!
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82983.0

As far as a Dwolla service that does this, Dwolla's terms of service were changed recently and expressly forbids this.  Here's the section from their TOS:

You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
 - Use the Dwolla system to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
 - Use the Dwolla System without written consent in association with any online credit or virtual currency system;

So even if you found a party that does this that would violate your terms of service.  That said, there hasn't been anyone reporting that Dwolla has closed accounts or frozen funds for doing account-to-account (A2A) transfers that are in violation.  That doesn't mean they won't start doing that, just that to-date, nobody has reported that Dwolla is doing this yet.

Because of the risk of a reversal, offering this type of exchange is as risky as accepting Dwolla in exchange for bitcoins (except that there is a mailing address, but since that could be a personal mail box (PMB) or other drop point, that may not mean much).

There might be an announcement forthcoming from BitInstant in which there is the ability to cash out USDs from an exchange and pick up that cash at WalMart.

In the meantime, the service listed above is about the only cash-in-the-mail method offered.  Another option is to buy a reloadable card and load it with MoneyPak and then visit an ATM to withdraw:
 - http://www.BTCPak.com

Also some prepaid debit cards also can be used for direct deposit accounts.  Walmart's MoneyCard is one such card:
 - https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/AcctMgmt/Content/Common/AddFunds/ACHBankAccount.aspx

So you withdraw from Dwolla to the prepaid debit card.  And from there visit an ATM.

Or do a Western Union transfer to yourself, etc.

I am quite familiar with the fact that I can sell them and mail them myself. Thanks for the link to the thread though
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June 06, 2012, 12:15:31 PM
 #5

Are there any other people who can send physical money for coins?
TangibleCryptography
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June 06, 2012, 12:47:12 PM
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Are there any other people who can send physical money for coins?

I am curious what advantages mailing money would have over using something like a MoneyPak?
Are those advantages significant enough to warrant the risk of loss, theft, fraud ("yes I mailed you the funds last week")?
madmadmax
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June 06, 2012, 05:22:27 PM
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Are there any other people who can send physical money for coins?

I am curious what advantages mailing money would have over using something like a MoneyPak?
Are those advantages significant enough to warrant the risk of loss, theft, fraud ("yes I mailed you the funds last week")?

With MoneyPak you still have to deal with your bank/Paypal and pay them big fees and there is a risk your account will get frozen etc.

I don't think the risk is any bigger than dealing with your local bank (dem money grabbing fuckers) provided you use escrow, the seller has good rep, the money is sent with traceable mail and possibly some form of insurance for the clients.

What if I want to pay someone in USD from my coins? First I need to pay the MoneyPak fee, then the PayPal fee, then both my banks and Paypal fees for transferring the money to the bank, then wait 2 weeks for it to show up, then pay the bank fees for international money transfer, then wait 2 weeks and even then the person I am sending money to is risking of the payment bouncing back or both our accounts getting frozen AND after all that BS I still need to pay my banks monthly fee.

The question you should really be asking is what advantages does transferring money 2000 times and paying fees every time has to do over mailing it.
TangibleCryptography
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June 06, 2012, 05:24:52 PM
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Are there any other people who can send physical money for coins?

I am curious what advantages mailing money would have over using something like a MoneyPak?
Are those advantages significant enough to warrant the risk of loss, theft, fraud ("yes I mailed you the funds last week")?

With MoneyPak you still have to deal with your bank/Paypal and pay them big fees and there is a risk your account will get frozen etc.

I don't think the risk is any bigger than dealing with your local bank (dem money grabbing fuckers) provided you use escrow and the seller has good rep and possibly some form of insurance.

What if I want to pay someone in USD from my coins? First I need to pay the MoneyPak fee, then the PayPal fee, then both my banks and Paypal fees for transferring the money to the bank, then wait 2 weeks for it to show up, then pay the bank fees for international money transfer, then wait 2 weeks and even then the person I am sending money to is risking of the payment bouncing back or both our accounts getting frozen AND after all that BS I still need to pay my banks monthly fee.

Or MoneyPak fee and withdraw from an ATM, and hand them the cash the same day?
madmadmax
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June 06, 2012, 05:26:11 PM
 #9

Are there any other people who can send physical money for coins?

I am curious what advantages mailing money would have over using something like a MoneyPak?
Are those advantages significant enough to warrant the risk of loss, theft, fraud ("yes I mailed you the funds last week")?

With MoneyPak you still have to deal with your bank/Paypal and pay them big fees and there is a risk your account will get frozen etc.

I don't think the risk is any bigger than dealing with your local bank (dem money grabbing fuckers) provided you use escrow and the seller has good rep and possibly some form of insurance.

What if I want to pay someone in USD from my coins? First I need to pay the MoneyPak fee, then the PayPal fee, then both my banks and Paypal fees for transferring the money to the bank, then wait 2 weeks for it to show up, then pay the bank fees for international money transfer, then wait 2 weeks and even then the person I am sending money to is risking of the payment bouncing back or both our accounts getting frozen AND after all that BS I still need to pay my banks monthly fee.

Or MoneyPak fee and withdraw from an ATM, and hand them the cash the same day?

Hand them across the globe?
TangibleCryptography
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June 06, 2012, 05:29:31 PM
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Hand them across the globe?

I guess I am confused then?

Sell BTC -> Cash in Mail -> 3 to 5 days -> Cash in your hand.
Sell BTC -> MoneyPak -> ATM -> Cash in your hand.

Isn't that the apples to apples comparison.  What you do after that isn't really part of the comparison.   If you need to pay someone someone who isn't local then you will still have to figure out how to get the cash to them but that applies to all forms of cash.

Still thanks for your insight I guess some people just want cash.
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June 06, 2012, 05:30:57 PM
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Hand them across the globe?

I guess I am confused then?

Sell BTC -> Cash in Mail -> 3 to 5 days -> Cash in your hand.
Sell BTC -> MoneyPak -> ATM -> Cash in your hand.

Isn't that the apples to apples comparison.  What you do after that isn't really part of the comparison.   If you need to pay someone someone who isn't local then you will still have to figure out how to get the cash to them but that applies to all forms of cash.

Still thanks for your insight I guess some people just want cash.

Moneypaks will get shutdown if you do any sort of volume.  Cash.. not so much.

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madmadmax
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June 06, 2012, 06:52:01 PM
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Hand them across the globe?

I guess I am confused then?

Sell BTC -> Cash in Mail -> 3 to 5 days -> Cash in your hand.
Sell BTC -> MoneyPak -> ATM -> Cash in your hand.

Isn't that the apples to apples comparison.  What you do after that isn't really part of the comparison.   If you need to pay someone someone who isn't local then you will still have to figure out how to get the cash to them but that applies to all forms of cash.

Still thanks for your insight I guess some people just want cash.

But I am sending the money to someone else not myself
TangibleCryptography
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June 06, 2012, 06:59:53 PM
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But I am sending the money to someone else not myself

Sorry I misunderstood. 

Not sure if anyone would be willing to escrow a 3way tx for the obvious reasons.

Your BTC -> Vendor.
Vendor Cash -> 3rd party.

Lots of room for fraud/theft.

Say the person you are paying says they never got the cash but the vendor says they mailed it.
How do you handle the escrow?

Thanks for clarifying I can see how cash would be optimal for a situation like that.  Maybe someone else will offer it.
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June 06, 2012, 09:59:38 PM
 #14

But I am sending the money to someone else not myself

Sorry I misunderstood. 

Not sure if anyone would be willing to escrow a 3way tx for the obvious reasons.

Your BTC -> Vendor.
Vendor Cash -> 3rd party.

Lots of room for fraud/theft.

Say the person you are paying says they never got the cash but the vendor says they mailed it.
How do you handle the escrow?

Thanks for clarifying I can see how cash would be optimal for a situation like that.  Maybe someone else will offer it.

The money is sent as a financial support for a family member who is very trusted by me and he isn't a client of any sort. I want to use a traceable letter so there is only the option of him saying he got an empty letter or a letter with not enough money so then it is obviously the vendors fault.
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June 09, 2012, 08:16:04 PM
 #15

Can someone send Western Union for Bitcoins?
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June 09, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
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Can someone send Western Union for Bitcoins?

There are some that offer this.

Get-Bitcoin is one.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Selling_bitcoins

There have been delays, with every single exchange that does Western Union cash-out, so keep that in mind.

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June 10, 2012, 03:02:33 AM
 #17

What about money orders ?

Stephen Gornick
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June 10, 2012, 03:41:59 AM
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What about money orders ?

In the U.S., Camp BX will send out a USPS money order, registered mail for $7.
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Camp_BX

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