Has trading ruined the day for HODLERS?

[inca]

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

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[DeadCoin]

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

Dark web, lol. That's all you got?

[inca]

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

Dark web, lol. That's all you got?

No but you ignored everything else when I proved that bitcoin is a currency by your own metrics.  Anyway real life intrudes.

[Soros Shorts]

bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

The same could be said of the currency of a small country. Have you vacationed in the Dominican Republic? The stuff that tourists buy are priced in Pesos but the prices are synced with the USD exchange rate. However this does not invalidate the Dominican Peso as a currency.

[Erdogan]

The original post is absurd. Traders can not take anything from hodlers.

[orsotheysaid]

There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

[dropt]

There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

Days destroyed implies otherwise.

[Elwar]

I lost more trading than I have holding.

[ssmc2]

There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

Days destroyed implies otherwise.

Don't come at him with facts 

[DustyRah]

The original post is absurd. Traders can not take anything from hodlers.

Traders have created incredible uncertainty and volatility, causing the overall value of Bitcoin to stay low. Spooked hodlers are bailing out is why the price keeps creeping downwards.

[JimboToronto]

LOL thread.

Holders are traders.

They traded when they acquired their coins (unless they mined them which involves trading their hardware investment and electricity for them) and they will trade again when they use them later to purchase beer, t-shirts, fiat currency, laptops, excursions, etc.

[TheTribesman]

I lost more trading than I have holding.

Ditto. My only issue now is having to sync every once in a while  

[Kluge]

LOL thread.

Holders are traders.

They traded when they acquired their coins (unless they mined them which involves trading their hardware investment and electricity for them) and they will trade again when they use them later to purchase beer, t-shirts, fiat currency, laptops, excursions, etc.

I;d guess the most reasonable term for people who hodl for extended periods of time ("long-term traders") would be "bears." They hibernate until the price is dramatically higher than their buy-in and don't wake up even if the price tanks. I've never really understood what conventional use of "bearish" was supposed to illiterate, anyway. Bears paw it down and bulls uhh... gore it up, maybe?

[JimboToronto]

I've never really understood what conventional use of "bearish" was supposed to illiterate, anyway. Bears paw it down and bulls uhh... gore it up, maybe?

You made me look it up. Seems you could be right.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/129.asp

Then again it could be bearskin jobbers and bull/bear-baiters.