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Author Topic: Wtf is the government thinking  (Read 2502 times)
FirstAscent
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June 18, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
 #21

The government, ironically, is supposed to be a government for the people, in the USA at least.  Yet we have constantly seen that people are being controlled by the government, and our freedoms being taken away slowly, and slowly, and slowly,  yet we have allowed this to happen.

Let me list some things:

1. Tobacco Tax
2. Banning smoking in public places
3. Plastic bag ban
4. Ban on drugs (Looks bad, but there is no reason for marijuana to really even be banned)
5. Closure of coal plants (30 closed across the nation, decreasing our electricity generation capacity)

This sounds like a very simplistic rant motivated by base political ideals. I see no in depth analysis here that addresses population growth, sustainability, conservation, long term planning, etc.

It sounds like a meme derived from the chanting of the word 'Freedom', without an acknowledgement of the complexity of the world we live in, and its evolving state.

Alright since not many folks are willing to call you out I will.

What "Complexities" are you referring to? Please in great detail.

Now since I do know what you're going to say I'll present this notion. Is there such a thing as irreducible complexity in nature? Meaning a life form so complex that evolution (the process of chaos leading to order) cannot explain how it came into being?

If you're as rational as you portray yourself to be "in writing" then you would likely have to concede that irreducible complexity is a fallacy. By that concession you do also acknowledge that a chaotic process based on the principles of "Freedom" and/or "Liberty" (chaotic tactic) can lead to an emergent order. One that is not only possible but inherently "natural" or inevitable would you not agree?

If Cosmology, Biology and Quantum Physics all point to how uncertainty is a fact of life. Then by through uncertainty (Liberty/Freedom etc) one can derive a sense of certainty (emergent order) as individual economic players (or groups of voluntary individuals) through their actions... exchanges and co-operative efforts lay the foundations for a "Stateless Society" (emergent order).

Your problem is that you rely on Sacred Cows a little too much. You seem so certain of yourself when the truth is only uncertainty is for certain. That is a rule of thumb in all Socio/Economic affairs just as it is when we turn to Quantum Mechanics, Biology and various other sciences. At most we can only predict in "Probabilities" and this doesn't jive well with the Black/White legal framework of Liberal Democracies or its Central Economic model(s). A State (or the Statist mindset) is therefore nothing more than a relic left over by an old way of thinking. A religious way of thinking. An Ordered way of thinking.

You have said nothing here. You haven't addressed one specific thing, fact, or issue about the real world. You claim how freedom is emergent. I'll tell you what's emergent. The socio/economic climate that exists. It emerged.
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June 18, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
 #22

Now I don't know where is the power coming from, whether it is still powered by coal or another source. But the price move is an indication that the it's not coal anymore or it's soon to stop being.

I live in germany and I pay €0.23 for electric power.

Germany has been trying hard for decades to go cleaner/greener... we have loads of solar and wind turbines (subsidized), some hydro. We also have a fair share of nuclear. These sources have specific problems: solar and wind is unreliable and costly, nuclear can't be regulated well and has a major waste problem that doesn't simply go away by waiting a couple of generations. Therefore we still have lots of plants that simply burn fossil fuels (like coal or natural gas). That delivers plenty of energy and the output can be regulated in minutes. Just making the point that your energy probably not coming from some single source, but is mixed via a vast network from all kinds of sources.

Also, about the coal: have you every played command & conquer? Usually it's a good strategy in early to mid game to start collecting the spice as far as possible from your base as soon as you can (without slowing your building processes too much and while players are still busy building weaponry and the basis for production so that your harvesters can usually defend themselves sufficiently) and keep the stuff close to your base for later in the game when shit hits the fan and you can't have unprotected harvesters wandering around the map far from home, taking too long to supply for the increased funding demands and getting killed due to lack of protection.

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Slab Squathrust
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June 19, 2012, 05:52:23 PM
 #23

The government, ironically, is supposed to be a government for the people, in the USA at least.  Yet we have constantly seen that people are being controlled by the government, and our freedoms being taken away slowly, and slowly, and slowly,  yet we have allowed this to happen.

Let me list some things:

1. Tobacco Tax
2. Banning smoking in public places
3. Plastic bag ban
4. Ban on drugs (Looks bad, but there is no reason for marijuana to really even be banned)
5. Closure of coal plants (30 closed across the nation, decreasing our electricity generation capacity)

And more...

Unfortunately for me to make things worse, I live in a liberal city full of liberals that want things only their way.  They're increasing electric rates, banning plastic bags soon and making a big stir...

Electric used to be much cheaper $0.03-0.04 and now it's going up to rates such as $0.15/KWh.  They decided to close down a ton of power plants in the city while demand is rising, and decided that stealing more money from our pockets is a viable solution to lower demand and rolling blackouts.

So why don't people stand up to the government?  Our freedoms are slowly being taken away.  The majority politicians only go into government to control people and have power.  Of course that is human nature but we still can limit that from having such slow and devastating impacts on our freedoms.

I'd bet 100 bitcoins that we live in the same city.  And that is why after this July I'm moving across the the big body of water on the edge of our city.  The land over there is much cheaper and your average home is more than 15 feet from the neighbors.  The air is cleaner and as a major plus, gang activity is almost nonexistent.  Work is just a 30 minute ferry ride away! Also the price of electricity isn't going to rise 60% over the next 3 years.

Sales tax is also not at a crippling 10%.  I always laugh at the self righteous hipster douchebags championing the rights of the poor, while simultaneously proposing sales tax increases for more bike lanes.  What a slap in the face for people living paycheck to paycheck.

What most angers me about this place is the handling of the recent spate in gun violence.  I am a gun owner and respect the right of people to own and carry them.  I also understand the need for reasonable restrictions, such as a background check.  However, the police chief comes out and says that guns are the problem and not the people who use them.  He said something to the effect that someone who has a gun is more likely to use it.  While he is absolutely correct, someone without a gun can never use one, it is a gross oversimplification.  It is the same as saying someone with a car is more likely to get a DUI.  He simply does not understand the mentality of the shooters.  The guys willing to pull weapons and start firing at each other often are using illegally obtained guns.  No amount of restrictions will solve that, as by definition, criminals ignore the law.  Furthermore, these individuals display a wanton disregard for bystanders.  In the past few months, there have been a number of rolling gun battles, in which to cars fly down a street trading gunfire.  Many of the victims in this recent outburst in violence have been bystanders.  I live a few blocks from the intersection where a father was hit by a stray bullet and killed.  His only crime was driving his kids to an area park.  The people perpetrating the majority of the violence are gang members.  Unless we find a way to curb their activity, I have a feeling this year will turn from a statistical blip to a more worrisome trend.     
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June 19, 2012, 06:00:13 PM
 #24

China is actually making a lot of steps to go greener

It's dangerous to breathe in Hong Kong. Until it isn't, I'll be over here with my precious air and will to live.
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July 27, 2012, 07:10:04 PM
 #25

freedom its self is an illusion to say that you are free means you are without restrictions of any kind and I dont known about you but if I jump off a cliff I`m probaly going to die.            1. I Am sort of on the fence about taxing tobacco on one side you have low income families who smoke and then expect to get their bills paid for when they get lung cancer.but I also support the right for people to do their own thing and kill themselves if they would like to.                            2. Nothing wrong with that you want to kill yourself in the privacy of your home fine by me, but I dont want second hand smoke in mine or my kids faces.              3. The first time I have heard of this and on a secondary note why and the fuck do you care  I cant even see what the point is in being angry about this helps the enviorment end of story.             4.I agree with you on this one. All soft drugs should be legalized at least to a certain extent Portugul decrimalized all drugs and addiction actually went down as well as overdoses.                         5. Buy a hybraid car or get your house off the grid. Not only does it give one middle finger to the government another plus is no more electricity bills saving the earth isn`t for everyone somepeople need a little more incentive get a grant and buy a few solar panel.           Peace&Love

There is no easy walk to freedom anywhere, and many of us will have to pass through the valley of the shadow of death again and again before we reach the mountaintop of our desires -Nelson Mandela
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July 28, 2012, 06:48:44 AM
 #26

by smoking in public places, you are forcing other people to smoke indirectly.

so its okay for you to force something upon others, but its not okay that the government does it?

Turn off your car and I'll put out my cigarette.

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July 28, 2012, 09:31:45 AM
 #27

by smoking in public places, you are forcing other people to smoke indirectly.

so its okay for you to force something upon others, but its not okay that the government does it?

Turn off your car and I'll put out my cigarette.
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July 29, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
 #28

Also, about the coal: have you every played command & conquer? Usually it's a good strategy in early to mid game to start collecting the spice as far as possible from your base as soon as you can (without slowing your building processes too much and while players are still busy building weaponry and the basis for production so that your harvesters can usually defend themselves sufficiently) and keep the stuff close to your base for later in the game when shit hits the fan and you can't have unprotected harvesters wandering around the map far from home, taking too long to supply for the increased funding demands and getting killed due to lack of protection.

Plans within plans...

(TIL Tiberium was inspired by spice)

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July 29, 2012, 09:51:20 PM
 #29

Even a strong libertarian wouldn't need much thought to stand behind banning tobacco in public places. There's hard evidence that second-hand smoke is harmful. So even the "I should be able to do literally anything I want as long as I don't hurt anybody while doing it" is irrelevant.

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July 29, 2012, 10:52:07 PM
 #30

Even a strong libertarian wouldn't need much thought to stand behind banning tobacco in public places. There's hard evidence that second-hand smoke is harmful. So even the "I should be able to do literally anything I want as long as I don't hurt anybody while doing it" is irrelevant.

Well, that's a clear example of a small-scale externality, handled much the same way as any other. Second-hand smoke being as dangerous as it is, I suspect e-cigs would take off in a libertarian society.

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