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JaredR26
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November 09, 2014, 10:07:08 PM
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November 09, 2014, 10:09:39 PM
 #2

why not ask a bank for that loan?

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November 09, 2014, 10:31:41 PM
 #3

Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral.  Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well.

PM me if anyone is interested.
I am sorry to tell you that no one is going to lend you a million dollars on here. I would doubt that even most people even have a million dollars to lend you if it was an appropriate risk.

From what I have seen you will pay a higher rate and lenders will have stricter lending standards then if you were to take out a loan at the bank.
nothing2seeHere
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November 10, 2014, 02:40:38 AM
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Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral.  Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well.

PM me if anyone is interested.
Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan.

Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold.

Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin?
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November 10, 2014, 03:42:46 AM
 #5

Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral.

So your business model is tied to the bitcoin rate?

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nothing2seeHere
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November 10, 2014, 03:43:43 AM
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Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral.  Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well.

PM me if anyone is interested.
Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan.

Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold.

Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin?

Kind of- what I'm looking for ideally is something between a loan and investment.   I would be borrowing $1,000,000 and paying back $1,000,000 plus (equity in company or interest based on investors choice).  My business plan provides solid economics and payback times, and 2,800 BTC provides additional security that my skin is seriously in the game/the investors have additional recourse beyond what the business plan already provides.

Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral.  The thing I don't want to risk is that I'm out of the btc world significantly when it rises again.

Yes, given some short notice I can get signatures from addresses containing as much BTC.

The escrow would be done with a 2 of 3 BTC address and a trusted mediator to resolve any disputes.
What additional recourse would the lender have in the event that you default on the loan? I would assume that any additional recourse you offer would be drafted in a contract.
nothing2seeHere
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November 10, 2014, 04:22:17 AM
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Hi, I'm looking for a very large dollar/fiat loan and have or can collect the equivalent BTC for collateral.  Looking for $1-3 million dollars for a large project; I have a complete business plan and financials for review as well.

PM me if anyone is interested.
Are you looking to borrow $1,000,000 in dollars that is secured by $1,000,000 worth of bitcoin? If this is the case then the lender would be taking on a lot of risk as he would essentially be allowing you to purchase a million dollars worth of bitcoin at current prices regardless of where the price of bitcoin goes in the future. If the price of bitcoin goes down then you will default on the loan, if the price goes up then you repay the loan.

Also you would need to find a trusted escrow to hold ~2,800 BTC which is more then what most escrow services should be trusted to hold.

Are you able to sign an address containing as much bitcoin?

Kind of- what I'm looking for ideally is something between a loan and investment.   I would be borrowing $1,000,000 and paying back $1,000,000 plus (equity in company or interest based on investors choice).  My business plan provides solid economics and payback times, and 2,800 BTC provides additional security that my skin is seriously in the game/the investors have additional recourse beyond what the business plan already provides.

Since everything is denominated in USD, the only thing the investor is hedging on is that Bitcoin doesn't completely crash to 0 thus killing my business and the collateral.  The thing I don't want to risk is that I'm out of the btc world significantly when it rises again.

Yes, given some short notice I can get signatures from addresses containing as much BTC.

The escrow would be done with a 2 of 3 BTC address and a trusted mediator to resolve any disputes.
What additional recourse would the lender have in the event that you default on the loan? I would assume that any additional recourse you offer would be drafted in a contract.

This would be done in a legally binding contract.  (Not some random operation)

1. The rights to any unspent funds (not all of the investment is spent at once)
2. The rights to resale value of the things bought(resale value of approximately 20% of the original value)
3. Rapid payback by getting a large guaranteed percentage of profits until payback (Can be put into a contract, but wouldn't help if profits didn't come, hence it is important they see the business plan and understand it as an investment)
4. The rights to the resale value of a large expense that may take some significant time to resell(up to a few years, approximately 20% of the original value)

The return schedule, while not guaranteed, is pretty rapid.
I think this would protect the lender somewhat in the event that the price of bitcoin declines however they would not be 100% protected as it if falls far enough (roughly 20% on a sustained basis) then you would lose your incentive to repay the lender.

Also if you are not going to spend all of the borrowed funds all at once then why borrow all at once? Why would you not want to have a line of credit type situation where you would draw funds as you need them, saving you somewhat on interest?
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November 10, 2014, 05:06:43 AM
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You are saying that the business assets would depreciate by ~80% until they are sold. This means that if the value of bitcoin drops 20% then the value of the bitcoin plus the business assets would be below the amount borrowed, making this an unsecured loan.
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November 10, 2014, 06:47:06 AM
 #9

It isn't possible to 100% collateralize anything denominated in BTC.

Theoretically, you could use Coinapult LOCKS service if you are outside of the US.

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November 10, 2014, 10:45:27 PM
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Mind telling us (me) exactly what section this would fit into?

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Vod
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November 10, 2014, 10:50:12 PM
 #11

I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world. 

 Cheesy

The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy.

Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan".

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Candystripes
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November 10, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
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I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world.  

 Cheesy

The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy.

Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan".

Exactly what I thought Vod. If there is a risk big enough for you to fear you can't pay it back to the bank, you should fear it just as much in Bitcoin

You have to realize if you default over a million dollars, you're probably going to have a h1tm4n hired on you or something. It only costs so much to hire a hacker, etc.

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November 11, 2014, 02:37:02 AM
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I don't want a million dollars from a bank, I don't want to take that kind of risk on myself outside the Bitcoin world.  

 Cheesy

The bank would require you to return the money and force you into bankruptcy.

Clearly you don't have faith in the business yourself, and you are hoping you don't have to repay the bitcoin "loan".

Exactly what I thought Vod. If there is a risk big enough for you to fear you can't pay it back to the bank, you should fear it just as much in Bitcoin

You have to realize if you default over a million dollars, you're probably going to have a h1tm4n hired on you or something. It only costs so much to hire a hacker, etc.

No bank is going to lend an unestablished Bitcon based business a million dollars or more.  It doesn't matter how confident I am.

Then you need to lower your expectations.  Bitcoin is not a magic wand. 

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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Ukrso
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November 11, 2014, 09:04:41 AM
 #14

Waiting your address ... we can exchange more information about this.
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November 11, 2014, 09:05:54 AM
 #15

Return what money?


The money you borrowed from the bank.

Nice to see where your head is at though.   Undecided

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
I will ignore your Prayer Messages unless you donate to 1CDyx8AUTiYXS1ThcBU3vy4SJWQq6pdFMH
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waterpile
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November 11, 2014, 10:47:23 AM
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Waiting your address ... we can exchange more information about this.

are you really serious? this is my first time to see a newbie wants to fund this things
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November 11, 2014, 10:57:48 AM
 #17

What part of that confused you into thinking I was asking for a normal straight collateralized loan?

The area of the forum you posted it in.

Should have posted in "Project Development" or "Hopes and Dreams".

You can move the thread via the control at lower left.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
I will ignore your Prayer Messages unless you donate to 1CDyx8AUTiYXS1ThcBU3vy4SJWQq6pdFMH
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Vod
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November 11, 2014, 11:39:18 AM
 #18

What did I do to piss you off, exactly?

Is everyone you decide you dislike automatically a scammer by the grace of vod?

Given that what I'm asking for is a collateralized expansion of an already profitable operation with physical assets, cashflow, and a patent on file, and not a speculative project needing organization/guidance or "bounty campaigns, advertising etc," it clearly fits better where I posted it, not where you suggested.  Your snarky comments only make you look like you have a bone to pick, which is why I ask again, what did I do to piss you off?

You asked for a three million dollar loan without collateral.  AND you didn't capitalize my name.   Wink

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
I will ignore your Prayer Messages unless you donate to 1CDyx8AUTiYXS1ThcBU3vy4SJWQq6pdFMH
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project - Building Database!
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November 11, 2014, 11:46:32 AM
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What did I do to piss you off, exactly?

Is everyone you decide you dislike automatically a scammer by the grace of vod?

Given that what I'm asking for is a collateralized expansion of an already profitable operation with physical assets, cashflow, and a patent on file, and not a speculative project needing organization/guidance or "bounty campaigns, advertising etc," it clearly fits better where I posted it, not where you suggested.  Your snarky comments only make you look like you have a bone to pick, which is why I ask again, what did I do to piss you off?

You asked for a three million dollar loan without collateral.  AND you didn't capitalize my name.   Wink

Good to know you don't believe in BTC.  Though I'm confused about the 340 page post history you have here...  If you don't believe in BTC, it seems like trolling /b/ or /r/twoxchromosomes would be much more profitable for you. Smiley

BTC has made my early retirement possible.  I believe in it 100%.  Sorry you are confused.   Smiley

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
I will ignore your Prayer Messages unless you donate to 1CDyx8AUTiYXS1ThcBU3vy4SJWQq6pdFMH
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project - Building Database!
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November 11, 2014, 11:52:47 AM
 #20

Then you need to lower your expectations.  Bitcoin is not a magic wand.  

What's the difference?  Oh yeah, you don't have BTC.  I don't need to beg for it.  Wink

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
I will ignore your Prayer Messages unless you donate to 1CDyx8AUTiYXS1ThcBU3vy4SJWQq6pdFMH
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project - Building Database!
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