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puffn
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August 23, 2012, 03:34:55 AM
 #61

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

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Rockefoten
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August 24, 2012, 09:00:48 PM
 #62

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>
ShireSilver
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August 24, 2012, 10:10:01 PM
 #63

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...),

I can't answer the questions about CPA and insurance, but I can inform http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/all-your-base-are-belong-to-us

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
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August 25, 2012, 10:25:18 AM
 #64

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>


I might have said something like that, but you're going to have to quote me, as I didn't say anything like that in this thread. I'm not denying I said it, but I think you should provide more context. Was I talking about CPA? Was I talking about BMF? YARR? NYAN? Something else? I probably wasn't talking about CPA. That didn't appear in this thread so...

The thread in question is locked so I don't know how to properly quote.
However, the quote is from this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is under number (7), at the end of Techshare's opening post.

Since you were talking about an insurance company I assume it was CPA.


Francesco
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August 26, 2012, 10:57:35 AM
 #65

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley

Ok, 20%; in fact your contract states that no more than 25% of exposure should go to a single sector. Could you then explain me this?
http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/

Type:                Pirate Account   
BTC exposure: 1,280   
Percentage:     47.76%

either I can't read this figures, or CPA will go down to about 0.5 per share in the event of a complete default.
Francesco
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August 27, 2012, 08:56:52 AM
 #66

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley

Ok, 20%; in fact your contract states that no more than 25% of exposure should go to a single sector. Could you then explain me this?
http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/

Type:                Pirate Account   
BTC exposure: 1,280   
Percentage:     47.76%

either I can't read this figures, or CPA will go down to about 0.5 per share in the event of a complete default.

I haven't updated that section of the spreadsheet in a while. We've signed quite a few deals, that contract is less than 15% of our total assets, our total exposure to pirate is about 20-25% as stated.

Thanks! Now I can buy  Smiley
Please update those spreadsheets often, these are troubled times, correct information is vital!
Francesco
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September 03, 2012, 07:31:38 AM
 #67

Please update those spreadsheets often, these are troubled times, correct information is vital!

Seems you didn't take my advice too seriously. http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/ still has not a "september" spreadsheet, while the august one has modified the NAV, losing more than 40% (at worst 25%, were you saying?  Angry ), while still showing "last updated: 1 august".

NYAN has an eccellent transparency and communication, I was hoping it would be the same here, was I mistaken?
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September 06, 2012, 10:15:17 PM
 #68

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>


I might have said something like that, but you're going to have to quote me, as I didn't say anything like that in this thread. I'm not denying I said it, but I think you should provide more context. Was I talking about CPA? Was I talking about BMF? YARR? NYAN? Something else? I probably wasn't talking about CPA. That didn't appear in this thread so...

The thread in question is locked so I don't know how to properly quote.
However, the quote is from this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is under number (7), at the end of Techshare's opening post.

Since you were talking about an insurance company I assume it was CPA.




Oh I was just trying not to be an asshole to TECSHARE since his art was shit and he was moving away from the guidance I gave him and not following the direction I wanted to take. He kept saying that he couldn't do what I wanted and that what I wanted was boring, so I just fired him. I was trying to be nice about it too. Sheesh, some people.

So now you feel it necessary to slander me further? You made a mistake and this all could have been avoided by simply admitting it rather than attempting to intimidate and slander me into submission.

In case anyone is wondering if you can trust anything out of USAGI's mouth here is a direct quote after he reviewed my work:

..."So once again, the top center image and bottom center image are my two favorites and I would like to move forward with those. This is my first purchase of a logo so I'm unsure of what to do next. I originally had the idea that you would design a banner add as well (like the https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38544.msg472116#msg472116]two for IBB or for bitcointrading). Almost anything would be good because there are no really good advertisements around here IMO. So I just need to get something out pretty quickly, although you can take your time (lol) if you like.

Ok so let's see. I assume you will want 15 bitcoins for all this. I like those logos so I can pay half (7.5) bitcoins right now for those logos? And then we can move forward on the banner add? Or what is your suggestion.. thanks"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is quite obvious based on his statements posted on the above link he canceled the agreement because of his failing company. You reap what you sew buddy, and I wouldn't be here if you had stopped your slander.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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September 07, 2012, 06:46:13 PM
 #69

retracted.
Ben Walsh (beamer)
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September 07, 2012, 07:19:46 PM
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Interesting. Why did you retract ?

retracted.

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Factory
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September 07, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
 #71

Interesting. Why did you retract ?

retracted.

I decided to send what I posted via PM to Usagi instead.
bitcoinbear
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September 07, 2012, 07:27:27 PM
 #72

retracted. (Usagi is a horrible businessman and totally mismanaged the money by underestimating risks at every turn)

That was about the extent of it, right?

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Factory
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September 07, 2012, 07:31:51 PM
 #73

retracted. (Usagi is a horrible businessman and totally mismanaged the money by underestimating risks at every turn)

That was about the extent of it, right?

Yes. Though I was a bit more loquacious and long-winded with my post.  Grin

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.
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September 07, 2012, 07:37:46 PM
 #74



And one more thing. Another big, big effort I made in order to build trust within the community was to host a round table discussion group which during it's time had some of the biggest names around on it. We discussed operations, I laid out plans, and I basically gave everyone a share of the power CPA had. It was a great idea. But one by one the people on it left because they were unwilling to put their name behind CPA. Over and over again I was told that I couldn't be trusted and people didn't want to associate with me or CPA because they thought maybe they would get sued or something. WTF? Yeah right.

....

One man alone can't do this. I needed to trust the people around me but they all pretty much bailed or (essentially) ripped me off one way or another. What a disappointment.

I would suggest that a group of people throwing around ideas is a good thing, but that does not mean you have to give up control to these people.  There needs to be one person that calls the shots and that makes the final decisions.  If you want people to help you then that is OK, but I think you need to re-evaluate how you organize your business.  If you need help then give the person willing to help a percentage of the profits.

Having people to advise is fine, but the final decisions have to stop with you.  Look at Bitcoinica, no one knew who was in charge and it all fell apart.  No one is going to put their name behind something that they do not have 100% control of.

Also, who cares what other people feel about you.  Do your work, insure some things, show you are reliable, handle your customers and workers well, and then you will have a good reputation.  If someone  has a problem then try to find a solution to make that person happy.  If that person is unreasonable, then refund them their money and decline any future business with that person.  There is no need to have accusations thrown back and forth between two parties, it does damage to your reputation.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 07:41:39 PM
 #75

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

CryptoNote needs you! Join the elite merged mining forces right now here in Fantomcoin topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=598823.0
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September 07, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
 #76

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Also, I would suggest to not to do so many different things, NYAN, YARR, CPA, etc, too many projects.  Stick to one thing or delegate your investments from the float out to someone else and give that person a percent of the profits.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 07:50:48 PM
 #77

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Oh, I agree very much that it is a blazing new frontier. My original post was perhaps a bit too judgmental and did not give Usagi credit for trying to do something that - in theory - would be very beneficial for the btc community. For that, I have to give him an A. The execution of the plan, however, receives an F.

With that said, here is the original post:

-----------------------------------------Start Retracted Post-------------------------------------------
Hello, I'd like to make a quick announcement.

Dividends (and the monthly report) are being delayed until this Sunday so I can do them at the same time as NYAN/BMF/YARR. However I will give a sneak peek of the kind of report I will release on sunday. And it's a very pissed off report.

First, the obvious. CPA won't pay dividends this month because of the pirate collapse. CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.

When we started, everyone was calling me a scam artist and a ponzi runner. I was desperate to build trust in the community so I chose five of the most respected lenders I could find and invested ~500 BTC with each of them. No names (for now). only one of them was actually able to pay back the money. Every other deposit-taker has either stalled or has told me that they have lost substantial amounts of CPA's money (25-50% and more, in almost every case).


The actual investments that CPA has run (or me) such as NYAN, have been fine. And yes the market has gone down, that's true. BMF lost 40% of it's value because we invested right before the ASIC news. I know that. But it is a little disheartening to have to come back to the community in this way  because I went to the community in the first place for trust and it was the community itself that let me down.

it's basically come down to, if the last 2 people I invested money with can't pay back, there will be no way to hide or avoid the losses, and CPA's net value will go to zero.

We still make money, we still have contracts, we just don't have any free assets. How much is CPA worth? I really have no idea. It's probably time for you guys to start waking up and forgetting about 1% returns a week; real world businesses usually make 5-10% a year. Not a month, a year. Oh and by the way that's where mining will be in six months too. So there you go.

In a worst case scenario all existing shareholders will get a buyout for 0.10 or 0.20, maybe with my own personal money and I will reissue new shares to back the profit and obligations of existing contracts. It's either that or go to zero and cease operations. And that means YARR too.

Then again, the people CPA puts money with could pay us back.

No names. Except one. Patrick Harnett returned my money almost immediately and was all around pretty professional about it.

And one more thing. Another big, big effort I made in order to build trust within the community was to host a round table discussion group which during it's time had some of the biggest names around on it. We discussed operations, I laid out plans, and I basically gave everyone a share of the power CPA had. It was a great idea. But one by one the people on it left because they were unwilling to put their name behind CPA. Over and over again I was told that I couldn't be trusted and people didn't want to associate with me or CPA because they thought maybe they would get sued or something. WTF? Yeah right.

So I am actually kind of pissed off at the shitty community around here. CPA was really a way to fix that community, to build trust and to try and prevent the next big scam (which for many people it did. We bought back over 2200 btc worth of YARR and paid out on several pirate insured contracts).

It really pissed me off when people like ########## would ramble on about how untrustworthy I was or my business was.

But something like this you know, one man can't do it alone. I needed a team. I needed to work with the community. Well actually I am so pissed off at this that I think once CPA pays out on it's obligations I'll just shut it down.

One man alone can't do this. I needed to trust the people around me but they all pretty much bailed or (essentially) ripped me off one way or another. What a disappointment.

Step 1. You form an insurance venture for other btc-based ventures. An essential function of insurance companies is to appropriately calculate and understand risk.
Step 2a. You invest a large portion of capital into pirate-based securities, which was/is a black box - ie. the risks can not be calculated at all.
Step 2b. You lend money to individuals who fail to pay you back.
Step 3. Your insurance venture crumbles as though it were a castle made of sand.
Step 4. You blame everyone who you lent to.

It is the job of the insurer to fully analyze and understand the full profile of all operations in terms of risk and soundness.

You either:

  1. Failed to calculate and understand the risks.

    Did not realize the severity of the risks involved.
    Did not charge large enough premiums that would be rationalized by such risk.
    Did not create a balanced and diversified portfolio adequately conservative enough to create a 'buffer' against unanticipated losses.

or:
 
  2. Ignored the risks.

    Did not avoid said securities after finding them to be overly risky and full of unknown variables, and were lured by the thought of extremely high returns.


When insurers take large and unanticipated losses, it is their fault and their fault alone. Take some responsibility for your actions.



*I have never been a CPA shareholder, but I felt compelled to plainly illustrate this after reading what has occurred.
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September 07, 2012, 08:02:33 PM
 #78

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Also, I would suggest to not to do so many different things, NYAN, YARR, CPA, etc, too many projects.  Stick to one thing or delegate your investments from the float out to someone else and give that person a percent of the profits.

I completely agree. Spreading ones-self to thin will always make things difficult. Actuarial Science is extremely complex by nature, and I can not imagine trying to head CPA + other ventures at the same time.
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September 07, 2012, 09:17:04 PM
 #79



Yup that was me. It was a round table, yes -- but I got to be King Arthur.

...

Yes, we had policies like that. I am not sure but I think I invited you to join -- or at least I probably should have. I can't remember if I did and you turned me down, or if I didn't ask. But it would have been nice of you to join Smiley

...

No it does not do damage to my own reputation when other people are incapable of living up to their contracts and promises.

I did not join because I don't do partnerships.  Not saying that it is not a bad investment but I like to have control over my investments.  I give free advise and ideas though so feel free to email me if you want.

As for people that give you criticism, advise, or are incapable of living up to their promises; it can affect your reputation in the manner that you respond to them.  There is a fine line between protecting your reputation and losing the reputation you already have by the way you react.

If it is someone is saying you are a scammer, reply that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we can all choose to do business with anyone else we choose in this free market.


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 09:41:56 PM
 #80

The point is: as an insurer, your job is to understand risk; yet you did not.

It does not really matter if you were "forced" to deposit. If you misjudged the risk investing, you would also have misjudged it insuring other people's deposits.

Blame it on the shitty community, if you please; maybe it's so shitty no one in the world could possibly have managed to successfully make business; the fact here is you didn't.

This said, let's just hope not everything is lost and we can all start again, having learnt from our mistakes... CPA is still something the BItcoin world really needs.
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