Consciousness and Quantum Physics

[bl4kjaguar]

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

The revolution is here, you can even see it in science. The world already has the www.quantumconsciousness.org/ website.

"The old enemy of religion and philosophy is science. But in fact, science will serve up the confirmation and science will be the one to bring this to the world.

Religion has tried to do it for 2000 years and has failed miserably. The world is no durned good, people are no durned good, they are greedy and selfish. The capitalist system has worn out, because it is based on the selfishness and greed of man. But science can take this to the world in 4 to 5 years. Once it is accepted and understood by scientists, the breakthroughs will be astronomical."

http://ormusforum.com/david-hudson.php#.VGPGXTTF8q4

Hameroff and Penrose are saying that in order to avoid "seeing" multiple universes at the same time, the quantum coherence created in microtubules by some material (we think the m-state/ORMEs materials) must collapse. What if the quantum coherence did not collapse and we became aware of multiple universes?

http://tesla3.com/free_websites/ormus_science.html

[BADecker]

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

The revolution is here, you can even see it in science. The world already has the www.quantumconsciousness.org/ website.

"The old enemy of religion and philosophy is science. But in fact, science will serve up the confirmation and science will be the one to bring this to the world.

Religion has tried to do it for 2000 years and has failed miserably. The world is no durned good, people are no durned good, they are greedy and selfish. The capitalist system has worn out, because it is based on the selfishness and greed of man. But science can take this to the world in 4 to 5 years. Once it is accepted and understood by scientists, the breakthroughs will be astronomical."

http://ormusforum.com/david-hudson.php#.VGPGXTTF8q4

Hameroff and Penrose are saying that in order to avoid "seeing" multiple universes at the same time, the quantum coherence created in microtubules by some material (we think the m-state/ORMEs materials) must collapse. What if the quantum coherence did not collapse and we became aware of multiple universes?

http://tesla3.com/free_websites/ormus_science.html

Religion hasn't exactly failed. Why not?

Religion has two purposes. One is to find a method to save people from death. The other is to offer people methods for right living. Bible religion fulfills both, although the salvation part is yet to be proven.

The only time science will start to prove its worth in the religion direction, is when it starts to become evident that scientific living is saving people from death - people living healthy lives to 200 and 300 years. So far, there is evidence that people from some scientifically backward lands live just as long or longer than people from scientific lands (Hunza, Vilcabamba).

As far as right living goes, science and engineering has provided much of the world with modern conveniences - hot running water, cook stoves, electronics communications. Yet, all of these, just like religions, are at times used to make life worse for the people than better. So, right living isn't necessarily centered in modern conveniences.

Will science do any better through quantum entanglement?

[brian_23452]

Herein exists a problem. Ancient as well as modern day witch-doctors write and speak their incantations as they dance around the fire. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the incantations and the rites.

Scientists write and speak their math symbols as they hover over their computers. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the math and the ways to use it.

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

Well, not really.   If you were to contract say, bubonic plague, you would find that modern medicine would cure you rather quickly.  If you were to use voodoo magic instead, you would find that your survival rate is about the same as it would be if you did nothing.  See the difference?

Let me put it in another way.  Say you contracted bubonic plague.  Would you rather be located in say, Mass General in Boston attended to by physicians using modern medicine gleaned from the scientific method, or some village in India where a "modern day witch-doctor" performed some traditional incantation?  Don't answer, it's rhetorical and we all know the answer. 

[brian_23452]

The only time science will start to prove its worth in the religion direction, is when it starts to become evident that scientific living is saving people from death - people living healthy lives to 200 and 300 years. So far, there is evidence that people from some scientifically backward lands live just as long or longer than people from scientific lands (Hunza, Vilcabamba).

It is a well established fact that through various techniques of modern medicine all gleaned from the scientific method, people live substantially longer and healthier lives than at any point in history before (excepting of course, the people who do not have access to such medicine).  This is simply a fact and really I'm not sure how you can even debate it.

As far as right living goes, science and engineering has provided much of the world with modern conveniences - hot running water, cook stoves, electronics communications. Yet, all of these, just like religions, are at times used to make life worse for the people than better. So, right living isn't necessarily centered in modern conveniences.

Will science do any better through quantum entanglement?

Naturally, we all have a choice.  You *could*, if you wanted to, forgo all modern technologies and ignore everything science has done for you.  You could do this if you chose to, and you would choose to do so if you honestly felt you would be better off.  And yet, you do not.  You sit there in your house, with heat, and electricity, and internet, writing on a computer, etc.  Why is that?  I would posit that despite all your protestations to the contrary, you rather like what science has done for you and enabled you to do.  Ironic, isn't it, that without modern science you would not be able to share your anti-science rant with all of us!

[bl4kjaguar]

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

The revolution is here, you can even see it in science. The world already has the www.quantumconsciousness.org/ website.

"The old enemy of religion and philosophy is science. But in fact, science will serve up the confirmation and science will be the one to bring this to the world.

Religion has tried to do it for 2000 years and has failed miserably. The world is no durned good, people are no durned good, they are greedy and selfish. The capitalist system has worn out, because it is based on the selfishness and greed of man. But science can take this to the world in 4 to 5 years. Once it is accepted and understood by scientists, the breakthroughs will be astronomical."

http://ormusforum.com/david-hudson.php#.VGPGXTTF8q4

Hameroff and Penrose are saying that in order to avoid "seeing" multiple universes at the same time, the quantum coherence created in microtubules by some material (we think the m-state/ORMEs materials) must collapse. What if the quantum coherence did not collapse and we became aware of multiple universes?

http://tesla3.com/free_websites/ormus_science.html

Why is the thread filled with rhetoric rather than study and discussion of the Orch OR hypothesis and the ORMEs?

[BADecker]

Herein exists a problem. Ancient as well as modern day witch-doctors write and speak their incantations as they dance around the fire. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the incantations and the rites.

Scientists write and speak their math symbols as they hover over their computers. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the math and the ways to use it.

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

Well, not really.   If you were to contract say, bubonic plague, you would find that modern medicine would cure you rather quickly.  If you were to use voodoo magic instead, you would find that your survival rate is about the same as it would be if you did nothing.  See the difference?

Let me put it in another way.  Say you contracted bubonic plague.  Would you rather be located in say, Mass General in Boston attended to by physicians using modern medicine gleaned from the scientific method, or some village in India where a "modern day witch-doctor" performed some traditional incantation?  Don't answer, it's rhetorical and we all know the answer.  

Yet, modern science finds it difficult to cure malaria, although they can do it. Yet drinking a simple bleach and water mixture cures malaria in one day.

http://mmsnews.is/



EDIT: I'm betting this would cure bubonic as well.

[BADecker]

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

The revolution is here, you can even see it in science. The world already has the www.quantumconsciousness.org/ website.

"The old enemy of religion and philosophy is science. But in fact, science will serve up the confirmation and science will be the one to bring this to the world.

Religion has tried to do it for 2000 years and has failed miserably. The world is no durned good, people are no durned good, they are greedy and selfish. The capitalist system has worn out, because it is based on the selfishness and greed of man. But science can take this to the world in 4 to 5 years. Once it is accepted and understood by scientists, the breakthroughs will be astronomical."

http://ormusforum.com/david-hudson.php#.VGPGXTTF8q4

Hameroff and Penrose are saying that in order to avoid "seeing" multiple universes at the same time, the quantum coherence created in microtubules by some material (we think the m-state/ORMEs materials) must collapse. What if the quantum coherence did not collapse and we became aware of multiple universes?

http://tesla3.com/free_websites/ormus_science.html

Why is the thread filled with rhetoric rather than study and discussion of the Orch OR hypothesis and the ORMEs?

Because it's a forum, and either the rules are not strict enough, or the moderators don't care to enforce them.

[bl4kjaguar]

I am not asking you to respond, I am asking you to think about it.

Why is the thread filled with rhetoric rather than study and discussion of the Orch OR hypothesis and the ORMEs?

The ORMEs alter consciousness at a fundamental level.

[BADecker]

I am not asking you to respond, I am asking you to think about it.

Why is the thread filled with rhetoric rather than study and discussion of the Orch OR hypothesis and the ORMEs?

The ORMEs alter consciousness at a fundamental level.

Hey, the closest I ever came to getting high was about 8 bottles of beer one night. And I drove home without any trouble.

[btcusury]

For your consideration...

Bashar - Reality is in your consciousness

[Tusk]

Some interesting data where many in science fear to tread

"Science and the taboo of psi" with Dean Radin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew


The Extended Mind: Recent Experimental Evidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnA8GUtXpXY

Rupert Sheldrake - The Science Delusion: Why Materialism is not the Answer

Published on Jun 13, 2014
Since 1981, Dr. Rupert Sheldrake has been researching morphic fields - his hypothesis about form-giving, immaterial fields which serve as a kind of blueprint for creation. Although he succeeded to find more and more evidence supporting his case, his hypothesis has been mainly rejected by the mainstream scientific community. In his lecture "The Science Delusion", Sheldrake points out several scientific dogmas which prevent science from overcoming its materialistic world view...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR1SLQwHDog

[blablahblah]

Herein exists a problem. Ancient as well as modern day witch-doctors write and speak their incantations as they dance around the fire. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the incantations and the rites.

Scientists write and speak their math symbols as they hover over their computers. They believe the things that they are doing, even though their success isn't 100%. Anybody who wants to take the time can learn the math and the ways to use it.

When math and science start to get into the quantum entanglement of the conscious mind, science will of a truth be dabbling in the "black arts."

Well, not really.   If you were to contract say, bubonic plague, you would find that modern medicine would cure you rather quickly.  If you were to use voodoo magic instead, you would find that your survival rate is about the same as it would be if you did nothing.  See the difference?

Let me put it in another way.  Say you contracted bubonic plague.  Would you rather be located in say, Mass General in Boston attended to by physicians using modern medicine gleaned from the scientific method, or some village in India where a "modern day witch-doctor" performed some traditional incantation?  Don't answer, it's rhetorical and we all know the answer. 

Circular argument: "methodical research is superior to alternatives because its results turned out to be superior".
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question

I've got a couple of problems with that:
-it deifies the Method and shuts down logical thinking (let us all bow down to the Great Book of Scientific Method! )

-there's the placebo effect, which you seem to have failed to observe. Frustratingly, even the most bizarre rituals have had documented effects, rather than no effect. Hence, "placebo effects" where various unknown effects are lumped together and ignored.

[brian_23452]

Circular argument: "methodical research is superior to alternatives because its results turned out to be superior".
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question

Well it isn't circular reasoning at all.  Having superior results (which you don't dispute) is the proof of having a superior methodology.  What else are we measuring here but results?  One way of doing things works substantially better then the other.   If you didn't want results you wouldn't go to either a doctor OR a witch doctor you would just let yourself die of plague.  If you would prefer, I will concede the point and instead of labeling one way better than the other, I will simply state that the scientific method produces vastly superior results. 

I've got a couple of problems with that:
-it deifies the Method and shuts down logical thinking (let us all bow down to the Great Book of Scientific Method! )

It deifies nothing.  That is a label YOU supplied, I suspect because you simply don't like the method (though I hesitate to assume).  Nor does it shut down logical thinking (how would you even define such a thing even if it did?).  It is in fact derived from the same process.  Start with nothing, and simply observe and let the conclusion follow. 
I strongly suspect what is happening here is that you simply don't like it, but can't actually come up with a rational reason why and hence we've resorted to this.

-there's the placebo effect, which you seem to have failed to observe. Frustratingly, even the most bizarre rituals have had documented effects, rather than no effect. Hence, "placebo effects" where various unknown effects are lumped together and ignored.

Hence the thought experiment of which works better.  You can include any placebo effects you want and consider them a success.  It doesn't change the result.  700 years ago in Europe as I'm sure you are well aware, 1/3 of the population died of this disease despite trying all manner of religious and magical incantations, prayers, etc.  Today?  As long as you have access to a modern hospital it is easily cured, but you won't even get it in the first place because modern medicine did overnight what thousands of years of magic couldn't do and the disease has been virtually eradicated. 

Anyways, pleasure having this discussion with you, but I think we have both said pretty much all we can really say for our respective sides.  Cheers.

[btcusury]

“Random”‐ness is known only to ignorance.

Was about to reply to your apple comment, but I don't quite know what you mean by this.

Are you saying that things only appear random while we are ignorant of their cause? eg. Apples appear to fall at random time intervals to the ignorant, however when we find the causes of the falling apples (wind/deterioration of the stalk/increasing weight/gravity etc.) then what once appeared random now becomes predictable and a pattern can be made?

I agree with this, however many quantum effects are truly random, which is very rare in nature. So (according to current quantum theory) we can never predict these effects with certainty, just with various probabilities.

How do we know that quantum effects are truly random? Space is the 3rd dimension. Time is the 4th. Whatever the 5th is like, we can calculate, but it takes all kinds of mental tricks to hold it in the mind and understand it. 6th? 7th? 8th? How many dimensions are there? Might they even be infinite?

I would suggest that quantum is causal just like everything else. It's just that the causes lie in dimensions where we don't have any practical way of even suggesting, much less determining, what the causes are like, to say nothing of what they might be.

On the other hand, there might be a dimension where cause and effect, and randomness meet, where the come together, where they are the same thing, right?

-there's the placebo effect, which you seem to have failed to observe. Frustratingly, even the most bizarre rituals have had documented effects, rather than no effect. Hence, "placebo effects" where various unknown effects are lumped together and ignored.

I think you guys are onto something... What do you think of this:

Imagining the Fifth Dimension
Imagining the Sixth Dimension
Placebos Becoming More Effective?

[BADecker]

Rupert Sheldrake - The Science Delusion: Why Materialism is not the Answer

Published on Jun 13, 2014
Since 1981, Dr. Rupert Sheldrake has been researching morphic fields - his hypothesis about form-giving, immaterial fields which serve as a kind of blueprint for creation. Although he succeeded to find more and more evidence supporting his case, his hypothesis has been mainly rejected by the mainstream scientific community. In his lecture "The Science Delusion", Sheldrake points out several scientific dogmas which prevent science from overcoming its materialistic world view...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR1SLQwHDog

See what happens to any science professional that abandons standard science rhetoric? The scientific community cuts them off. Note Rupert Sheldrake in this TED Talk video that has been removed from TED Talks for being against modern science. He can't even afford shoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

[BADecker]

Hence the thought experiment of which works better.  You can include any placebo effects you want and consider them a success.  It doesn't change the result.  700 years ago in Europe as I'm sure you are well aware, 1/3 of the population died of this disease despite trying all manner of religious and magical incantations, prayers, etc.  Today?  As long as you have access to a modern hospital it is easily cured, but you won't even get it in the first place because modern medicine did overnight what thousands of years of magic couldn't do and the disease has been virtually eradicated. 

Anyways, pleasure having this discussion with you, but I think we have both said pretty much all we can really say for our respective sides.  Cheers.

This isn't completely accurate. Many things might be cured by the science of modern medicine. Yet, one of the things that isn't cured is greed.

People, by nature, want to stave off death as long as possible. They look to modern medicine. Yet it isn't modern medicine that has the longest living people in the world.

As an example, modern medicine can cure malaria, although it is difficult. MMS, for less than pennies on the dollar, cures malaria in one day. Yet modern medicine won't even test it, although it is curing all kinds of diseases around the world. http://mmsnews.is/

Could it be that placebo effect in the greedy helps them overcome the greed disease just long enough for them to figure out how to make more money?

[Wilikon]

Rupert Sheldrake - The Science Delusion: Why Materialism is not the Answer

Published on Jun 13, 2014
Since 1981, Dr. Rupert Sheldrake has been researching morphic fields - his hypothesis about form-giving, immaterial fields which serve as a kind of blueprint for creation. Although he succeeded to find more and more evidence supporting his case, his hypothesis has been mainly rejected by the mainstream scientific community. In his lecture "The Science Delusion", Sheldrake points out several scientific dogmas which prevent science from overcoming its materialistic world view...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR1SLQwHDog

See what happens to any science professional that abandons standard science rhetoric? The scientific community cuts them off. Note Rupert Sheldrake in this TED Talk video that has been removed from TED Talks for being against modern science. He can't even afford shoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

Banned from TED. The Streisand effect is in full force now...

[The Chainmaker]

I think you really need consciousness as another dimension.

1. Space being one dimension (with the aspects of h, w, and l)
2. Tme being a second dimensions (again with its aspects of past, present, and future)
3. And consciousness being the third dimension. (with its aspects of awareness or not awareness)

Remove anyone of these three things and no experiment to prove the others can take place.  

For all you really know and can prove, the whole universe turns into waves while you sleep and the moment you wake it reconstitutes to particles.  

[btcusury]

I think you really need consciousness as another dimension.

1. Space being one dimension (with the aspects of h, w, and l)
2. Tme being a second dimensions (again with its aspects of past, present, and future)
3. And consciousness being the third dimension. (with its aspects of awareness or not awareness)

Remove anyone of these three things and no experiment to prove the others can take place.

Bingo! Except that space is the 3rd dimension, and the 4th dimension is not "time" but is rather a way of accounting for change in the 3rd. All dimensions can be thought of this way. Consciousness (or light) is thus the 5th dimension, which is orthogonal to spacetime.

Imagining the Fifth Dimension

[brian_23452]

Hence the thought experiment of which works better.  You can include any placebo effects you want and consider them a success.  It doesn't change the result.  700 years ago in Europe as I'm sure you are well aware, 1/3 of the population died of this disease despite trying all manner of religious and magical incantations, prayers, etc.  Today?  As long as you have access to a modern hospital it is easily cured, but you won't even get it in the first place because modern medicine did overnight what thousands of years of magic couldn't do and the disease has been virtually eradicated. 

Anyways, pleasure having this discussion with you, but I think we have both said pretty much all we can really say for our respective sides.  Cheers.

This isn't completely accurate. Many things might be cured by the science of modern medicine. Yet, one of the things that isn't cured is greed.

People, by nature, want to stave off death as long as possible. They look to modern medicine. Yet it isn't modern medicine that has the longest living people in the world.

As an example, modern medicine can cure malaria, although it is difficult. MMS, for less than pennies on the dollar, cures malaria in one day. Yet modern medicine won't even test it, although it is curing all kinds of diseases around the world. http://mmsnews.is/

Could it be that placebo effect in the greedy helps them overcome the greed disease just long enough for them to figure out how to make more money?

I said I wouldn't comment anymore but since you could potentially kill someone I will chime in one last time.  No, drinking bleach will NOT cure malaria.  It has been studied (though really, common sense should answer this question for you) and does not in any way cure malaria except in the cases where it kills the patient.  The ONLY study ever done that indicated it was a cure for malaria was does by the person selling the stuff (and you have the balls to mention greed lol).  This is a prime example of what I mentioned earlier.  People like you start with the conclusion, and then any evidence that contradicts your conclusions are thrown out.  Obviously you won't get results that way (as evidenced by the complete failure of magic at curing disease) and this is why people like you hate the scientific method.  It isn't sufficient to simply declare something true, you have to be able to prove it, which is impossible when your entire premise is simply made up.