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Author Topic: Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained  (Read 57110 times)
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June 14, 2012, 05:21:01 AM
 #41

I would still like to understand your policy related to when you call the police on your customers. The OP seems to make it sound like you need proof, but to me in the explanation it sounds like you jut need to suspect it.

As you said I was not involved in money laundering and I am glad you no longer suspect it. Sending you my marriage certificate and a bunch of other personal stuff convinced you. However what do I need to do to get you to give me information about this for all I know ongoing terrorist/money laundering watch list investigation? I have had no response from Mt. Gox and I am to the point where I am ready to get lawyers involved.  

I believe it has already been made clear and that you understand the situation. But here it is again for you to read. Also please understand that I cannot give all the details on what have been done here on this forum since we would like to keep your personal information as private as possible.

1) We can't explain all the details on how do we "Flag" people or how our process work. If we do so publicly we will then offer a unique opportunity for "Bad" elements to bypass or security. So I am sorry but you will never have a clear answer on how our security features works on this matter. Please understand we are doing so in order to protect people assets including yours and our system integrity.

2) What you did is a text book case of money laundering for us based in Japan (Remember we are in Japan). I am not saying you were trying to do something bad, and you have been cleared for this. But Check all Best Practice on this matter and you will see immediately what went wrong. To give you an example, I am French, Living in Japan I own an account in France and Japan with Visa Cards attached to them. Every single time I am sending money from France to Japan, the Japanese Bank call me to check WHY ON EARTH I am sending money to myself? They won't clear the transfer if I won't give them the reasons. Things are even more complicated when I receive money from other people or companies. So in your case you can understand that some flagged has been raised.

3) What you did is against our TOS, TOS that you agreed upon. TOS that has been written by our Law Firm in compliance with Japanese Law.

4) You refused to comply with basic AML/KYC. Sorry but it is how things work, once again what you did is text book case for basic money laundering and we have strict instructions on this matter and are ask by our bank to follow them if we want to use their service. Being reluctant to submit "Proof" and proper documentations did not help your case and increased potential problems with our Bank and Japanese authorities.

5) Not being capable to verify your identity and the clear connection with the person whom you wanted to send the fund give us no other choice to report this matter to the police here in Japan. We are not the law and only the Law can decide what can be done until things are cleared. Also failing to report any suspicious activity to Japanese Law can put us in trouble and ultimately force us to stop our activity temporarily or indefinitely.
Without much solutions in our hands and your continuous refusal we had to move forward. As for today you gave us all necessary documentation and "proof" to clear your name on this matter and the case is closed. The Japanese Police has no involvement in this matter at this point.

Conclusion:
1) You do not have to worry for this matter as far as Mt.Gox is concerned.
2) You do not have to worry about the Japanese Police for this matter. Case Cleared and Close.
3) We cannot communicate any information regarding pending case, ongoing case, past case unless we are requested by law to do so. Failing to this basic duty will be heavily sanctioned here in Japan.
4) We cannot give you the details on how things works when it comes to Money Laundering for example since it will help "Bad" elements to by pass our security measures.

I sincerely hope that this post will put an end to this matter and clear your mind.

Regards

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June 14, 2012, 05:22:17 AM
 #42

I have never cashed Bitcoins out for fiat, but now that I can't it makes me wary. I withdrew my Dwolla cash since I cannot deposit it at MtGox. I get credit card applications for nothing more than a credit check. Why is this becoming such a hassle? I hope this gets cleared up soon.

In an ideal world we would love to kill all these intermediaries (Banks and equivalent) that are in fact making things more complicated and more expensive... But until then we do not have much choice.

Quote
Please note that even if you are rejected the first time around, there is nothing wrong with this - we will keep working with you until we are able to get you verified.

I uploaded more, but received no acknowledgement. Do I need to open a ticket?

No need at this time, it will be cleared soon, we have a rather large amount of AML waiting to be processed. But don't worry we won't forget you.

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June 14, 2012, 05:49:00 AM
 #43

It seems you assume your customers are guilty until we the customer submit proof that we are not doing what you suspect.

Wrong, we do not assume anything, we are just sticking to the fact we have in possession. Each countries as its own set of rules and being in Japan we are obliged to follow them. Remember Japanese Law are really different from Thai or US Ones.

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June 14, 2012, 04:23:35 PM
 #44

It seems you assume your customers are guilty until we the customer submit proof that we are not doing what you suspect.

Wrong, we do not assume anything, we are just sticking to the fact we have in possession. Each countries as its own set of rules and being in Japan we are obliged to follow them. Remember Japanese Law are really different from Thai or US Ones.

Is a long waiting period for international withdrawal (I'm waiting from June 1) is due to large number of cases of AML?

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June 21, 2012, 04:21:20 PM
 #45

LOL @ how you would love to be able to sell our personal info to the highest bidder, if not for those pesky privacy laws.  Roll Eyes
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June 22, 2012, 01:44:13 AM
 #46

It seems you assume your customers are guilty until we the customer submit proof that we are not doing what you suspect.

Wrong, we do not assume anything, we are just sticking to the fact we have in possession. Each countries as its own set of rules and being in Japan we are obliged to follow them. Remember Japanese Law are really different from Thai or US Ones.

Is a long waiting period for international withdrawal (I'm waiting from June 1) is due to large number of cases of AML?

Panda Mouse

It is explained somewhere on this forum that 5% of our International Wire are also "touched". This said June 1 is old and I would like to check what's going on with this withdrawal. Could you please give me either a ticket number of or your Reference number of your Withdraw (Sent by email).

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June 22, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
 #47

It seems you assume your customers are guilty until we the customer submit proof that we are not doing what you suspect.

Wrong, we do not assume anything, we are just sticking to the fact we have in possession. Each countries as its own set of rules and being in Japan we are obliged to follow them. Remember Japanese Law are really different from Thai or US Ones.

Is a long waiting period for international withdrawal (I'm waiting from June 1) is due to large number of cases of AML?

Panda Mouse

It is explained somewhere on this forum that 5% of our International Wire are also "touched". This said June 1 is old and I would like to check what's going on with this withdrawal. Could you please give me either a ticket number of or your Reference number of your Withdraw (Sent by email).

Today I received my money (22 days), thank you for help.

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June 22, 2012, 12:46:51 PM
 #48

I cannot seem to get verified by mtgox since starting this process on June 6. If there is a problem with the process, I would like to know. Otherwise, are there any other exchanges that accept Dwolla for deposits?

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June 23, 2012, 01:41:13 AM
 #49

I decided not to get verified on MT.GOX since it would raise the withdrawal limits.
And those are as far as i know not configurable.

Now that didnt matter much since the limit is 400BTC and i lost 381 that for some
reason got transferred out without anyone logging in (according to logs from MT.GOX).

And MT.GOX blatantly did not even try to answer my question about how it happened
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89142.0.


However, this thread is about AML/KYC and to get that to work you need configurable
withdrawal limits.


//GoK

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June 23, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
 #50

I am waiting for an international withdrawal (a big one) which I have initiated on the 11th of June, and it looks like it hasn't even been "processed" yet Sad

Can someone please let me know what is going on (ticket #29927)?

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June 27, 2012, 01:09:12 AM
 #51

I have been trying to withdraw a few hundred dollars from MtGox. My account wasn't verified, because the FAQ says I don't need to be verified.
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-aml-account-statuses
Specifically "No verification needed (Level 0) - All accounts are initially Level 0"
"Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 1,000 USD (or equivalent) "

These days, I try to withdraw to Dwolla, and I thought everything was going smooth. But the $$ still haven't come in to dwolla, so I ask why.
MtGox rep replied that I need to provide document to become verified. This is absolutely not necessary as their own FAQ stated that I can withdraw up to $1000 a day without becoming verified.
It's been 3 days, and my funds are still stuck in MtGox. I've since sent them the documents.
If MtGox keep doing this, all their customers are just going to other exchange sites.

Trading MtGox USD for Dwolla/ACH deposit/Chase cash deposit
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June 27, 2012, 01:15:53 AM
 #52

I am waiting for an international withdrawal (a big one) which I have initiated on the 11th of June, and it looks like it hasn't even been "processed" yet Sad

Can someone please let me know what is going on (ticket #29927)?

Like we explained you on another thread your money has been sent last Monday. Please confirm.

Regards

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June 27, 2012, 01:19:19 AM
 #53

I have been trying to withdraw a few hundred dollars from MtGox. My account wasn't verified, because the FAQ says I don't need to be verified.
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-aml-account-statuses
Specifically "No verification needed (Level 0) - All accounts are initially Level 0"
"Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 1,000 USD (or equivalent) "

These days, I try to withdraw to Dwolla, and I thought everything was going smooth. But the $$ still haven't come in to dwolla, so I ask why.
MtGox rep replied that I need to provide document to become verified. This is absolutely not necessary as their own FAQ stated that I can withdraw up to $1000 a day without becoming verified.
It's been 3 days, and my funds are still stuck in MtGox. I've since sent them the documents.
If MtGox keep doing this, all their customers are just going to other exchange sites.

I am in the same situation, last month I tried to withdraw a couple hundred dollars to dwolla.  First the transaction said it was confirmed, then it was cancelled without even notifying me.  A week ago I logged into Mt. Gox only to discover that the funds were never transferred.  I started reading about the "verified account" nonsense, I couldn't understand why a transaction for $200 bucks would not be allowed.  I decided just to get my account verified.  After a three day process I finally had my account verified, I initiated the transfer out and STILL nothing has hit dwolla. 

I have no idea what is going on at Mt. Gox but it cannot be good.  This process used to take minutes, I have been trying to get my money out for over a month now.
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June 27, 2012, 01:29:21 AM
 #54

I have been trying to withdraw a few hundred dollars from MtGox. My account wasn't verified, because the FAQ says I don't need to be verified.
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-aml-account-statuses
Specifically "No verification needed (Level 0) - All accounts are initially Level 0"
"Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 1,000 USD (or equivalent) "

These days, I try to withdraw to Dwolla, and I thought everything was going smooth. But the $$ still haven't come in to dwolla, so I ask why.
MtGox rep replied that I need to provide document to become verified. This is absolutely not necessary as their own FAQ stated that I can withdraw up to $1000 a day without becoming verified.
It's been 3 days, and my funds are still stuck in MtGox. I've since sent them the documents.
If MtGox keep doing this, all their customers are just going to other exchange sites.

Hi

Yes you are right Level 0 does not require any AML documents, however, due to Dwolla's new TOS and since we are still waiting for them to give us a "Green Light" in continuing doing business with them we had to change our AML requirements. (One of my colleague will update the support page for that https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-aml-account-statuses).

However, and I am sorry that you did miss this announcement, but we release on this Forum, FaceBook, Twitter, Google+ and on our Mt.Gox Homepage the following Press Release https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120518.html explaining our new terms when it comes to AML and DWOLLA. Also we sent an email notification to all Dwolla user with the above Press Announcement.

So bottom line if you want to use Dwolla you need to be Level 1. If you prefer not upgrading your account to Level 1 and Keep your Level 0 account for your needs you still can withdraw your money but need to use the international wire method.

Hope this answer your question.

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June 27, 2012, 02:34:37 AM
 #55

I have been trying to withdraw a few hundred dollars from MtGox. My account wasn't verified, because the FAQ says I don't need to be verified.
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-aml-account-statuses
Specifically "No verification needed (Level 0) - All accounts are initially Level 0"
"Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 1,000 USD (or equivalent) "

These days, I try to withdraw to Dwolla, and I thought everything was going smooth. But the $$ still haven't come in to dwolla, so I ask why.
MtGox rep replied that I need to provide document to become verified. This is absolutely not necessary as their own FAQ stated that I can withdraw up to $1000 a day without becoming verified.
It's been 3 days, and my funds are still stuck in MtGox. I've since sent them the documents.
If MtGox keep doing this, all their customers are just going to other exchange sites.

I am in the same situation, last month I tried to withdraw a couple hundred dollars to dwolla.  First the transaction said it was confirmed, then it was cancelled without even notifying me.  A week ago I logged into Mt. Gox only to discover that the funds were never transferred.  I started reading about the "verified account" nonsense, I couldn't understand why a transaction for $200 bucks would not be allowed.  I decided just to get my account verified.  After a three day process I finally had my account verified, I initiated the transfer out and STILL nothing has hit dwolla. 

I have no idea what is going on at Mt. Gox but it cannot be good.  This process used to take minutes, I have been trying to get my money out for over a month now.

It has been explained here over and over. Dwolla decided to change its TOS when it comes to Bitcoin, this in order to protect their clients and their company and we have no problem whatsoever with them willing to protect their business. Dwolla requires now companies like us to submit certain documentations to issue them a "Writing Consent" that allow companies like us to freely continue to do business with Dwolla. As for today and after submitted these documents several weeks ago we are still waiting fro Dwolla to get back to us putting us in a very delicate situation with the fear of being shutdown at any single instant and have the funds on our Dwolla account frozen.

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June 27, 2012, 02:38:52 AM
 #56

Why not completely disable Dwolla, now that Bitinstant offers paypal withdraw? 6% fee sucks, but hopefully it would be instant.

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June 27, 2012, 03:05:30 AM
 #57

Why not completely disable Dwolla, now that Bitinstant offers paypal withdraw? 6% fee sucks, but hopefully it would be instant.

We have debated this internally many times, still Dwolla "works" and it is really cheap, on the other side we should have our own very cheap solution within this summer (Mid August) that will allow instant Withdraw and Deposit in Different countries... So we prefer focusing on this right now and keep on supporting Dwolla until then, or until they get back to us.

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June 27, 2012, 11:53:54 PM
 #58

It has been explained here over and over. Dwolla decided to change its TOS when it comes to Bitcoin, this in order to protect their clients and their company and we have no problem whatsoever with them willing to protect their business. Dwolla requires now companies like us to submit certain documentations to issue them a "Writing Consent" that allow companies like us to freely continue to do business with Dwolla. As for today and after submitted these documents several weeks ago we are still waiting fro Dwolla to get back to us putting us in a very delicate situation with the fear of being shutdown at any single instant and have the funds on our Dwolla account frozen.

Thanks, I initiated a support ticket with Dwolla and referenced this discussion thread.  I am sure that when everyone knows where the bottleneck is we will get this worked out.
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June 28, 2012, 02:21:30 AM
 #59

It has been explained here over and over. Dwolla decided to change its TOS when it comes to Bitcoin, this in order to protect their clients and their company and we have no problem whatsoever with them willing to protect their business. Dwolla requires now companies like us to submit certain documentations to issue them a "Writing Consent" that allow companies like us to freely continue to do business with Dwolla. As for today and after submitted these documents several weeks ago we are still waiting fro Dwolla to get back to us putting us in a very delicate situation with the fear of being shutdown at any single instant and have the funds on our Dwolla account frozen.

Thanks, I initiated a support ticket with Dwolla and referenced this discussion thread.  I am sure that when everyone knows where the bottleneck is we will get this worked out.

Thanks, hope it will have the effect we are all waiting for, we, Mt.Gox try to do everything by the book and would love to continue working with Dwolla and comply with their terms. I personally sent an email to Ben Milne 22nd but have yet received an email from him.

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June 28, 2012, 02:34:27 PM
 #60

It has been explained here over and over. Dwolla decided to change its TOS when it comes to Bitcoin, this in order to protect their clients and their company and we have no problem whatsoever with them willing to protect their business. Dwolla requires now companies like us to submit certain documentations to issue them a "Writing Consent" that allow companies like us to freely continue to do business with Dwolla. As for today and after submitted these documents several weeks ago we are still waiting fro Dwolla to get back to us putting us in a very delicate situation with the fear of being shutdown at any single instant and have the funds on our Dwolla account frozen.

Thanks, I initiated a support ticket with Dwolla and referenced this discussion thread.  I am sure that when everyone knows where the bottleneck is we will get this worked out.

Thanks, hope it will have the effect we are all waiting for, we, Mt.Gox try to do everything by the book and would love to continue working with Dwolla and comply with their terms. I personally sent an email to Ben Milne 22nd but have yet received an email from him.

How odd, I got this back from my support ticket with Dwolla:

Michael,

Thank you for the clarification, I was under the impression you were sending funds to a third party. It appears that your account is active and verified, if the payment has not reached the Dwolla system we have no control over how long the transfer will take. If another Dwolla user has initiated a transfer to your Dwolla account you will see it in your "pending" transactions or "Money In" tab. I do not see any payments being made to your Dwolla balance at this time, therefore I am not able to see what the hold up is. I would recommend getting in contact again with the third party in question, to see if the funds have successfully been sent to your Dwolla account.

Thank you,

Dwolla Support

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