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Author Topic: Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained  (Read 57092 times)
Yuhfhrh
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November 17, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
 #81

Oh dear.

After this I switched to Bitstamp using my online handle name and setup Google Authenticator. I then had my phone stolen last week. They are now asking for ID to disable the Google Auth, which of course I don't have since the name I signed up with doesn't exist...

 it's not a small balance and it's in dollars, not BTC.

Well that just sucks.  Undecided
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manicminer
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January 16, 2013, 05:16:31 AM
 #82

Bitcoin Central requires only the photo ID, not the utility bill. So they have better policies, don't?
ProfMac
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February 04, 2013, 02:47:46 PM
 #83



And this is exactly where I would start in creating a fake ID to satisfy the TOS of Mt. Gox.

~Bruno~


Now thats a good service you can setup for bitcoin  Cheesy

This sort of post cannot help the Bitcoin world.

I try to be respectful and informed.
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February 16, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
 #84

A medical insurance bill...

A medical insurance bill?
What about an auto insurance bill?

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Mt.Gox_Alex
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March 01, 2013, 08:24:33 AM
 #85

A medical insurance bill...

A medical insurance bill?
What about an auto insurance bill?

If less than 3 month it should be fine.

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March 01, 2013, 08:28:18 AM
 #86


If less than 3 month it should be fine.

Just curious, since it bills every 6 months:
What about a state ID combined with an 'official' proof of auto insurance card, that has a matching address?
Thanks

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March 05, 2013, 12:03:04 AM
 #87

Ok despite any claim about keeping privacy, the information you have can be taken by subpoena or other legal process from you.(and sometime illegal by bureaucrats/executive decsions that are just complied with)

thus it is not safe and defeats the foundational purpose of a crypto currency...excepting a person can send the money on x other forwarding addresses...but all these transaction are visible.


/thread.

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March 05, 2013, 12:26:23 AM
 #88

Hello Polvos,

As I work in the Compliance Division, I can really only comment on your last point - freezing money.

Unfortunately, we are legally obliged to occasionally hold customer funds pending the outcome of an investigation by the banks we work with. We don't have any control over this, it's simply one of the consequences of carrying out a large number of large bank transfers. Of course, transferring funds person to person carries much lower risk of needing to provide AML documents, as the size of the transfer is usually much smaller, and is usually either a once off or done only occasionally.

If you only need once off or occasional conversion of Bitcoins into currency in small amounts, and can find someone you trust on Bitcoin-OTC, you are probably better off going through them if you don't want to risk one day having to provide personal information.

I do apologise that you are not satisfied with our service.

Lets break this down.

"privacy policy and repeated posts on the forums where we state that we will only provide your personal documents when legally required to do so"


>>which means always and you will fold to any request


"Unfortunately, we are legally obliged to occasionally hold customer funds pending the outcome of an investigation by the banks we work with. We don't have any control over this,"


NO NO NO you choose to comply you could always say no and face those consequences, you choose obey particular rules or laws, this "we are legally obliged/no control" is rubbish.

>>Journalist routinely go to prison for not revealing sources

what you are saying is you will bend over any time your are asked to by anyone that looks semi official….

I mean just for a start you could immediately seek and injunction against any warrant.

You could claim it is an invalid warrant or request and fight it through the courts.

But no you reel out the old line

"Unfortunately, we are legally obliged to occasionally hold customer funds pending the outcome of an investigation by the banks we work with. We don't have any control over this"

I have seen people in companies refuse to hand over information to police who had a warrant, because they cited supervening legislation, or had other obligations under other laws, so you ARE NEVER LEGALY OBLIGED YOU CHOOSE THEN AND THERE TO FOLLOW WHAT SOME GUY HOLDING A CLAIMED LEGAL DOCUMENT TO DO

I mean your basically going back to the Befehl ist Befehl defence which reverse according to the victors needs and covers all the atrocities done.

You have confused Compliance with compliance

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March 11, 2013, 06:20:03 PM
 #89

Oh dear.

After this I switched to Bitstamp using my online handle name and setup Google Authenticator. I then had my phone stolen last week. They are now asking for ID to disable the Google Auth, which of course I don't have since the name I signed up with doesn't exist...

 it's not a small balance and it's in dollars, not BTC.

That's just plain stupid. Why did you set up google authenticator without a paper backup? Just ALWAYS print out the code/qr code that you import into your google authenticator app. Or take a screenshot, encrypt it and back it up digitally.

Otherwise, you can't complain if you loose access forever. I mean: phones get lost and stolen a lot, don't they?

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March 11, 2013, 06:28:40 PM
 #90

Oh dear.

After this I switched to Bitstamp using my online handle name and setup Google Authenticator. I then had my phone stolen last week. They are now asking for ID to disable the Google Auth, which of course I don't have since the name I signed up with doesn't exist...

 it's not a small balance and it's in dollars, not BTC.

That's just plain stupid. Why did you set up google authenticator without a paper backup? Just ALWAYS print out the code/qr code that you import into your google authenticator app. Or take a screenshot, encrypt it and back it up digitally.

Otherwise, you can't complain if you loose access forever. I mean: phones get lost and stolen a lot, don't they?

Go to a notary public with your identity and residence documents.  Fill out a statement that the phone was stolen, and have it notarized.
Include a bank account under the same name.
Scan all the documents and send them in, and ask for a release of funds to the bank account.

I try to be respectful and informed.
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March 13, 2013, 04:51:19 AM
 #91

While I do understand everything you say, but please, explain how can both this:

People have to understand one thing, we, and this will apply to any other Exchange at some point, have to follow government and banks rules. Do we like these rules? Not always. Do we enjoy enforcing them? Hell no! Do we have a choice? Not at ALL!

AND this:

Quote
A Guideline is a Guidline and you can implement many other options on top of it in order to strengthen your security.

be true  at the same time?

How can anything force YOU, the human beings, to implement extra torture for your customers (at your cost), instead of extra protecting them (at your risk), while you say you dislike the idea of torturing them?

Please answer.

You are forced to report anything suspicious noticed. OK, that is practical.
How can any human being be forced to notice "suspicious" operations? How can YOU be forced to judge anything as suspicious (distrustful) in the first place???
Is it possible to manipulate human's TRUST from outside and against his will??? Oh, don't say that is true.
Why YOU may be forced to distrust us (and our operations), but we still have no choice, but to trust you?

Please answer!

Why do you prosecute your users for doing "suspicious" and "unlawful" operations, but do not prevent them from doing that? Why not educate them? Put a warning maybe?
Why should I guess how to not get frozen in the first place? Where are the instructions? Why do you care of NOT disclosing them?
WHO on the Earth can force you to actually CARE about not disclosing the details???
Afraid of something? Then do it anonymously. What is the problem?

Please answer!!!

OK, KYC/AML are the "fiat world" requirements.
But then why did you freeze BTC accounts that tried to withdraw large BTC amounts while unverified,
however you accepted large amount payments to that accounts and not allowed to return them back.
How can a Bank/Govt/Whatever force you to NOT return BTCs to the rightful owner??? WTF?
How can they know in the first place and judge you for doing that???

C'mon I feel being brain F**KED by you, MTGOX!!! But please answer.
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March 30, 2013, 06:25:39 PM
 #92

Anybody who submits dox are surely going to be first on the list in the coming gold and Bitcoin confiscations.

I still have coins stuck on the exchange but if I give out some docs I'm just going to be risking everything. Is it worth it?

There appears to be no way round it. Its frustrating because I thought there was a deadline for this. A few days ago I was able to withdraw a coin. Perhaps where I went wrong was trying to withdraw more. I'll keep trying. Perhaps I can slowly release coins or whatever over a period of years.

People of Cyprus I know how you feel.
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April 02, 2013, 08:54:44 PM
 #93

I have submitted a pasport and a tax return which are both written in Danish. Can this be accepted?

Also, when I am on the Mt. Gox. site it tells me the following:
"Warning: You have only partially completed the AML process. Before we can review your submission, you must provide address information on the AML page here. "

But I have already uploaded both required documents and pressed the "Finish" button. Should I be worried?

Regards,
Sword Smith

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April 02, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
 #94

When is MTgox moving to California?  Is the partnership or alliance official with coinbase?

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April 02, 2013, 09:50:22 PM
 #95

When is MTgox moving to California?  Is the partnership or alliance official with coinbase?
What??  I would be very surprised if Gox moved into the states, but I could be wrong.

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April 02, 2013, 10:53:58 PM
 #96

When is MTgox moving to California?  Is the partnership or alliance official with coinbase?
What??  I would be very surprised if Gox moved into the states, but I could be wrong.

They are partnering with Coinlab.

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April 03, 2013, 12:40:50 PM
 #97

I know that, that seems even more unlikely that they would move their operation into the states.

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April 09, 2013, 12:55:52 AM
 #98

Though I am hardly Japanese or an authority on law, my background in business is such that I think I can field some answers which might actually satisfy your needs.

While I do understand everything you say, but please, explain how can both this:

People have to understand one thing, we, and this will apply to any other Exchange at some point, have to follow government and banks rules. Do we like these rules? Not always. Do we enjoy enforcing them? Hell no! Do we have a choice? Not at ALL!

AND this:

Quote
A Guideline is a Guidline and you can implement many other options on top of it in order to strengthen your security.

be true  at the same time?

How can anything force YOU, the human beings, to implement extra torture for your customers (at your cost), instead of extra protecting them (at your risk), while you say you dislike the idea of torturing them?
You use the idea of "force" as an absolute. While it's true that there is a choice, it's a choice between compliance and jail time. You can always strengthen the security of an organization in favor of privacy, but you may not protect information which is criminal in nature, or you are considered an accomplice to the crime.

So what is or isn't a crime? That depends on the laws which apply the MtGox.



You are forced to report anything suspicious noticed. OK, that is practical.
How can any human being be forced to notice "suspicious" operations? How can YOU be forced to judge anything as suspicious (distrustful) in the first place???
Is it possible to manipulate human's TRUST from outside and against his will??? Oh, don't say that is true.
Why YOU may be forced to distrust us (and our operations), but we still have no choice, but to trust you?
See the above.



Why do you prosecute your users for doing "suspicious" and "unlawful" operations, but do not prevent them from doing that? Why not educate them? Put a warning maybe?
Why should I guess how to not get frozen in the first place? Where are the instructions? Why do you care of NOT disclosing them?
WHO on the Earth can force you to actually CARE about not disclosing the details???
Afraid of something? Then do it anonymously. What is the problem?

This has always bothered me. But the reality is that if they offer "legal advice" in any way, they can be held liable and have criminal charges filed against them for practicing law without a license in many places. Hardly fair, but it's what's required.

MtGox doesn't prosecute; they are merely bound by the legal requirements of where they do business, which is apparently Tokyo. Because there is REAL money being traded and valued, the police have a way which forces companies to care about NOT disclosing information, because there are laws against that sort of helpful thing.

So don't blame the exchange, dude... it's the fault of crafty criminals and over-reactive politicians.

OK, KYC/AML are the "fiat world" requirements.
But then why did you freeze BTC accounts that tried to withdraw large BTC amounts while unverified,
however you accepted large amount payments to that accounts and not allowed to return them back.
How can a Bank/Govt/Whatever force you to NOT return BTCs to the rightful owner??? WTF?
How can they know in the first place and judge you for doing that???

C'mon I feel being brain F**KED by you, MTGOX!!! But please answer.
Freezing transactions is once again the "fiat world" requirement--you answered your own question without realizing it.

You're reacting as if a temporary freeze is theft of your bitcoins... it's not, it's a measure which the international banking community REQUIRES in order to operate as a currency exchange, and enforced by international and national laws around the world. So if you misbehave in any way with your BTC, you CAN have them frozen until things become clear.

Again, I have no connect to Mt Gox or its employees (other than being a new applicant), but your being ticked off at them for following the law won't get you unfrozen any faster. It's merely a requirement for them to operate within the law, and since BTC have a perceived value around the world, freezing them is not just legal, it's required.

My opinions represent only my own views... most of the time. Sometimes I argue because I can.
Brzeczysczykiewicz
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April 09, 2013, 06:51:17 PM
 #99

Quote
Submitting documents in non-latin script. Unfortunately, the Compliance Division doesn't have any staff who can read Cyrillic, Korean, Arabic or Hebrew. As a result, when we receive documents in these languages we must ask our customers to provide English translations of them.

I talked with support and they told me that I'll have to provide english translation of my polish documents. That means for me spending a lot of cash. Since polish IS based on latin, then where is the problem? My friend has account on Gox, and he didnt had such problems. Smells like laziness to me.
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April 11, 2013, 01:18:30 PM
 #100

Let's say no passport, no driving license - how to verify for Mt Gox - Student ID ?
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