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Author Topic: IS BITCOIN A FAC ?  (Read 1757 times)
KROIN_SYSTEM
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November 19, 2014, 10:19:35 AM
 #1

" bitcoin remains too complex for the average person to understand, let alone use; the global banking system is indeed broken but that doesn’t mean bitcoin is the solution; bitcoin is not — and never will be — relevant for “normal” people.

I think this is baloney. Why? I am an average person and I understand it. And I am starting to use it. More important, I know why I want to use it — outrageous bank fees.

What is so hard to understand about that?"

Felix Salmon


http://bitcoinagile.com/129CB6/is-bitcoin-a-fac_stream


glad to know your opinions

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November 19, 2014, 10:44:43 AM
 #2

What is a FAC?

Time will tell if he is correct, but people don't need to know how to build an automobile engine to use an auto so this person seems to have not thought out things very well.  Most people don't know how lift works on an airplane, but they still fly.
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November 19, 2014, 10:47:56 AM
 #3

There is nothing complex about using bitcoin. Install a wallet on your phone and just use it.
Sure, the technology behind it is complex, but a end-user don't has to understand it, they also don't understand the technology behind the banking system and still can use it.
Most of the time when somebody points out a "weakness" of Bitcoin, I just think: "You know, that you have the same problem within the fiat system?"

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November 19, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
 #4

Computer chips are far too complex for people to use.  Roll Eyes

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 19, 2014, 11:12:51 AM
 #5

None sense. Using bitcoin is as easy as using the computers, unless you bother to learn and use bitcoin.

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.Any Store Can Buy, Sell and Accept Cryptocurrency.██
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November 19, 2014, 11:42:16 AM
 #6

1. How many people understanding the banking system as it exists today?  I think the banking system is more complicated than Bitcoin by far. 

2. How many people really understand the internet?  Yet, the internet is huge. 

3. Bitcoin is just a baby, similar to the internet in 1995.  In time it'll be much easier to use, safer, and stronger.  Felix assuming that the Bitcoin of 2016 will be the same as the Bitcoin of 2014 is just as silly as thinking the Bitcoin of 2012 is the same as today.  Since 2012, Bitcoin has come a long way.  Wasn't Gox about the only way to buy and sell Bitcoins back then, now it is super easy.  And there were only a few places that accepted Bitcoin for tangible goods.  Now there are lots of places. 
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November 19, 2014, 11:42:48 AM
 #7

In summary, Felix lacks serious vision and imagination.
KROIN_SYSTEM
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November 19, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
 #8

FAC = FACILITY
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November 19, 2014, 04:17:01 PM
 #9

It will get easier to use as time goes on and wallets and exchanges become more user friendly. Just look at Circle. I also see it being used as a back-end of sorts for other financial products.



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November 19, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
 #10

I don't know what all goes on when a credit card is used. I guess I can't use them? Well, at least I understand bitcoin.  Smiley

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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November 19, 2014, 04:26:26 PM
 #11

1) The Myceilum wallet is easier to use than my banks app.

2) Circle app is self explanatory easy to use and insured against loss.(plus instant buy/sell)

3) Gyft app works great for using btc around town.

It's not that hard for new btc users anymore.....Any smartphone user can quickly understand and start to buy/sell/spend in minutes.

Listen: meat beat manifesto ~ Edge of no control (pt.1)
Read:"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past." ~ George Orwell
Think: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html
cr1776
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November 19, 2014, 05:46:58 PM
 #12

FAC = FACILITY

"IS BITCOIN A FACILITY?"

I still don't know what that is supposed to mean.

I think it is supposed to be "Is Bitcoin a Fad?"  -- looking at the original link now that it is up from here it says "Fad" not "FAC".
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November 19, 2014, 05:55:32 PM
 #13

The implications of bitcoin’s effect on consumer finance, investment and banking are not fully understood, a new report from Innopay suggests.

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November 19, 2014, 06:46:16 PM
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I've been a proponent of free opensource software since 2000 or so, I've deal a lot with this argument when it comes to linux, and now it is probably the most used OS in the world.

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November 19, 2014, 07:10:24 PM
 #15

1) The Myceilum wallet is easier to use than my banks app.

2) Circle app is self explanatory easy to use and insured against loss.(plus instant buy/sell)

3) Gyft app works great for using btc around town.

It's not that hard for new btc users anymore.....Any smartphone user can quickly understand and start to buy/sell/spend in minutes.

finally someone who can see what I have been seeing lately

a whole new financial system has been built in the last 12 months for bitcoin that now makes it so easy for business to accept bitcoin and consumers to use bitcoin

no matter what you throw in front of bitcoin, it does not matter there will always be people who love this opportunity to have their own currency that has no middleman, no centralisation, not subject to interest rates or fractional lending and can do a whole lot more than just being a currency.

I am still yet to see anything like this e.g. ripple, ethereum, apple pay, snapcash, reduced fees on banking

none of these has yet shown promise whereas it was built by the people for the people. e.g. bitcoin



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November 19, 2014, 07:29:27 PM
 #16

The implications of bitcoin’s effect on consumer finance, investment and banking are not fully understood, a new report from Innopay suggests.

Let's hope it's better than what we have today:

170+ trillion in debt with 1.3 trillion in circulation and only 800 billion in the banks....they still give out FRB loans every day. Money that doesn't exist until you sign the loan papers and then poof...by the click of a key new money is created, not backed up by gold or anything else of value. Who's making the money? Who's running the country? The Bankers....

Those that are familiar with Satoshi’s work already know Bitcoin was not a whim. It was decades of contemplation, study and waiting on the advancements of systems needed for modern implementation. Satoshi could foresee future technology and change occurring in the world because of the solution he knew existed (HyperMoney), because he could see so far into our past. Satoshi seems to have surpassed Adam Smith by learning much more from the history of the Indians than anyone could have known.

When:
Bitcoin should really take off once smart contracts get through their trial period and we can provide the facts to the general public. I believe this will be the point everyone is waiting on. Smart Contracts will enable loans, mortgages and registration of property such as car titles on the blockchain. Once the Bitcoin payment is made the door to the house or car you just bought will open or you will be able to print out your rental agreement. You see Bitcoin is the payment system that will be used for the smart contracts, not only person to person, but the smart contracts have digital agents which will have wallets also. Don't miss the whole point of Bitcoin being the means of payments for all the services that will be running on the blockchain. Thats why it was designed to act like a scarce commodity. Only 21 million will ever be available to be used to pay for all the services that will be available.(all this added to the great p2p payment system it already is Wink)
Note: I'm talking about Gavins Bitcoin 2.0 smart contracts.

Note: My personal view for the near future (5 years) is Bitcoin will be the payment system for services provided on the blockchain(ie...smart contracts, western union bill pay, etc...) and an internet payment option while also running co-existent like Visa does to cash now. Bitcoin is still young....

Why:
The Internet and Bitcoin were created to allow people to solve social problems in a novel way: Instead of the ancient formula of “the strongest wins and then beats the crap out of the loser” we all can achieve a peaceful society where both rich and poor, strong and weak can protect their property and freedom on more equal grounds without relying on violent institutions like governments.

Who:
Bitcoin was influenced by Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations”, Adam Muller’s “HyperMoney”, Thomas Edison’s “Commodity Currency”, William Feller’s “Probability Theory”, Friedman, Hayek, John Nash’s “Ideal Money”, Tim May’s “Crypto-anarchy” and “David Chaum’s “DigiCash” with the help of  Nick Szabo’s acquired knowledge (including “BitGold”, “Scarce Objects” & "Nanobarter"), Wei Dai’s “bmoney”(website & c++ lib.), Hal Finney’s “RPOW & PGP”, Adam Back’s “HashCash” and Zooko's "p2p system nodes".

*One of the first places where Satoshi Nakamoto mentioned bitcoin was at the P2PFoundation.ning.com. When you register there, you have to give your birthdate.

Satoshi gave April 5th 1975.

April 5th was one of the most significant dates in history. On that day in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102, which made it illegal for American citizens to own gold.

So what happened in 1975?

1975 was the year it became legal for American citizens to own gold again.

@ david wilson: If you want to understand the economics of Bitcoin, READ THIS:
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html
http://szabo.best.vwh.net/ttps.html
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-what-took-ye-so-long.html?m=1
http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2008/06/commodity-hysteria-overview.html?m=1

Listen: meat beat manifesto ~ Edge of no control (pt.1)
Read:"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past." ~ George Orwell
Think: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html
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November 19, 2014, 07:58:00 PM
 #17

tooo many people go around these days screaming about their love of bitcoin. and then when people ask about it the standard phrases pop out"

"its a decentralized, sha256 cryptographically secured public ledger".....

then they talk about mining...
you will send average joe to sleep talking about the technical crap before they even see or know what its use/purpose is..
if i asked you what is a bank note. you will just say "here is a dollar, now go to  shop and buy me some gum" you wont talk about the ISO type of the ink/cotton paper. or the location of the federal mint.

so simply ask your friend to download the blockchain.info phone app (or other easy use apps). ask them to display their payment address on their phone screen. and then send them 0.003 ($1)
then say no government can take that off them, no bank can freeze that account, no country/state boarder patrol can stop or seize it, no third party will charge you 2%-8%, no need for plastic credit cards or pin numbers or identity theft. and the funds are in your hand, not in some clearing house waiting 3-5 days..

then talk about the rarity and deflationary nature as oppose to FIAT. and how its more secure than a bank, than paypal, than apple pay

and thats the end of the conversation.


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November 19, 2014, 08:02:24 PM
 #18

Very few people know how fractional reserve banking or quantitative easing works yet they still use the product of it. People don't really understand how an email goes through the internet to arrive to the inbox of the intended receiver but they use it anyways.

There are many complex things in our world that not everyone understands but still reaps the benefits from. Bitcoin is the same way. Not everyone will be able to understand where Bitcoin came from, how it works, or what a Bitcoin exactly is but they will still be able to benefit from the uses of it.
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November 19, 2014, 08:25:37 PM
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tooo many people go around these days screaming about their love of bitcoin. and then when people ask about it the standard phrases pop out"

"its a decentralized, sha256 cryptographically secured public ledger".....

then they talk about mining...
you will send average joe to sleep talking about the technical crap before they even see or know what its use/purpose is..
if i asked you what is a bank note. you will just say "here is a dollar, now go to  shop and buy me some gum" you wont talk about the ISO type of the ink/cotton paper. or the location of the federal mint.

so simply ask your friend to download the blockchain.info phone app (or other easy use apps). ask them to display their payment address on their phone screen. and then send them 0.003 ($1)
then say no government can take that off them, no bank can freeze that account, no country/state boarder patrol can stop or seize it, no third party will charge you 2%-8%, no need for plastic credit cards or pin numbers or identity theft. and the funds are in your hand, not in some clearing house waiting 3-5 days..

then talk about the rarity and deflationary nature as oppose to FIAT. and how its more secure than a bank, than paypal, than apple pay

and thats the end of the conversation.



+1

Grin
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November 19, 2014, 09:26:32 PM
 #20

Quote
bitcoin remains too complex for the average person to understand, let alone use; the global banking system is indeed broken but that doesn’t mean bitcoin is the solution; bitcoin is not — and never will be — relevant for “normal” people.

Modern money is far too complex the "average person" to understand, yet normal people use it  all the time.

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