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Author Topic: [ANN] Ledger Wallet - Smartcard security for your bitcoins  (Read 13344 times)
btchip
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November 20, 2014, 10:26:06 PM
 #1

Ledger, a newly created company founded by La Maison Du Bitcoin, Chronocoin and BTChip is happy to announce the immediate availability of Ledger Wallet, launched today at http://www.ledgerwallet.com



Ledger Wallet is an easy to use USB smartcard + Chrome wallet application, powered by the HW.1 firmware, which appeared almost 2 years ago on Bicointalk. Have fun and enjoy it in a new, shiny packaging Smiley

I'll keep that thread for general public Ledger Wallet announcements, and the other thread for specific technical announcements




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EricKennedy
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November 20, 2014, 10:38:35 PM
 #2

Here is a raw video showing the Ledger Wallet and demonstrating its initialization process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXF12j5iqrE

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November 21, 2014, 09:51:12 AM
 #3

We are at Inside Bitcoins Paris !


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November 29, 2014, 09:07:13 AM
 #4

I have a question

1.) is https://hardwarewallet.com/ the same as this device ?

I would like to buy the device but when https://hardwarewallet.com/ sells them at $13 usd compared to you at $40 usd
I also see that https://hardwarewallet.com/ has google auth options. does your device use google auth aswell or only the card that comes with the dongle

did you just use the BTChip HW1 and add your own wallet + making of the seed and all that if that is the case why would i buy the ledger wallet when i can do all that with the hardwarewallet ?

please inform me what the diff's of ledger vs hardwarewallet is because i see nothing but your chrome app
EricKennedy
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November 30, 2014, 09:32:36 AM
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1.) is https://hardwarewallet.com/ the same as this device ?

I would like to buy the device but when https://hardwarewallet.com/ sells them at $13 usd compared to you at $40 usd
I also see that https://hardwarewallet.com/ has google auth options. does your device use google auth aswell or only the card that comes with the dongle

did you just use the BTChip HW1 and add your own wallet + making of the seed and all that if that is the case why would i buy the ledger wallet when i can do all that with the hardwarewallet ?

please inform me what the diff's of ledger vs hardwarewallet is because i see nothing but your chrome app

This is the same base device. BTChip and Ledger are the same team/company.
There is no Google auth option on either of the chips, so I'm not sure what you are referring to?

The difference between the two products basicaly lies in the user experience. The Ledger Wallet comes with a second factor card which is used for payment addresse verification, the HW1 requires to dump the payment address to a second computer for visual confirmation.
In other words, you could say that HW1 is fine for developpers, and Ledger Wallet is more for general purpose usage.

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December 01, 2014, 01:05:40 PM
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1.) is https://hardwarewallet.com/ the same as this device ?

I would like to buy the device but when https://hardwarewallet.com/ sells them at $13 usd compared to you at $40 usd
I also see that https://hardwarewallet.com/ has google auth options. does your device use google auth aswell or only the card that comes with the dongle

did you just use the BTChip HW1 and add your own wallet + making of the seed and all that if that is the case why would i buy the ledger wallet when i can do all that with the hardwarewallet ?

please inform me what the diff's of ledger vs hardwarewallet is because i see nothing but your chrome app

This is the same base device. BTChip and Ledger are the same team/company.
There is no Google auth option on either of the chips, so I'm not sure what you are referring to?

The difference between the two products basicaly lies in the user experience. The Ledger Wallet comes with a second factor card which is used for payment addresse verification, the HW1 requires to dump the payment address to a second computer for visual confirmation.
In other words, you could say that HW1 is fine for developpers, and Ledger Wallet is more for general purpose usage.

1. You said above ledgerwallet and btchip are the same chip. But in Ledgerwallet FAQ, i read the following:

Quote
Ledger Wallet is an evolution of the well known BTChip HW1 hardware wallet. Its security has been thoroughly reviewed by industry experts.

2. If this is the same chip, is it possible to use greenwallet and not the chrome wallet you provide ?
3. If I use greenwallet, am i able to use it from my android phone, as it is possible with btchip ?
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December 01, 2014, 01:51:05 PM
 #7

2. If this is the same chip, is it possible to use greenwallet and not the chrome wallet you provide ?
3. If I use greenwallet, am i able to use it from my android phone, as it is possible with btchip ?

Yes it is the same chip, by evolution we mean more globaly as a full product.

You can use the Ledger Wallet wth Greenwallet or Electrum 2.0. It is also possible to use it with your Android phone and the greenwallet application (with the cable adapter).

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December 01, 2014, 02:19:54 PM
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2. If this is the same chip, is it possible to use greenwallet and not the chrome wallet you provide ?
3. If I use greenwallet, am i able to use it from my android phone, as it is possible with btchip ?

Yes it is the same chip, by evolution we mean more globaly as a full product.

You can use the Ledger Wallet wth Greenwallet or Electrum 2.0. It is also possible to use it with your Android phone and the greenwallet application (with the cable adapter).

Thanks for this quick answer. your products are great. I am going to buy one, the ledger version as it looks more solid. I will keep posting questions if i have.

I am happy to see french companies could develop great products.
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December 01, 2014, 06:58:58 PM
 #9

1.) is https://hardwarewallet.com/ the same as this device ?

I would like to buy the device but when https://hardwarewallet.com/ sells them at $13 usd compared to you at $40 usd
I also see that https://hardwarewallet.com/ has google auth options. does your device use google auth aswell or only the card that comes with the dongle

did you just use the BTChip HW1 and add your own wallet + making of the seed and all that if that is the case why would i buy the ledger wallet when i can do all that with the hardwarewallet ?

please inform me what the diff's of ledger vs hardwarewallet is because i see nothing but your chrome app

This is the same base device. BTChip and Ledger are the same team/company.
There is no Google auth option on either of the chips, so I'm not sure what you are referring to?

The difference between the two products basicaly lies in the user experience. The Ledger Wallet comes with a second factor card which is used for payment addresse verification, the HW1 requires to dump the payment address to a second computer for visual confirmation.
In other words, you could say that HW1 is fine for developpers, and Ledger Wallet is more for general purpose usage.

i guess i'm confused as it showed a google auth on the hardwarewallet site in one of the videos.
I do see https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kav7ME2Gd5I = the greenaddress so it must be in the wallet not the chip.
thanks for the reply , i plan on picking one of the ledger and doing a review or something. I like to play with stuff in my off time.
I have in mind to test all the hardware wallets that are out on the market. I have already bought the trezor , next this , and maybe a hardwarewallet aswell.


the one thing I would really like to know is the say so one was able to get the HASH that you use to make the SEED. would a person not be able to then just use a database of words used in the seed to make diffrent combines up and try to crack the wallet.

like right now I know the 1 PC that I have with a wallet on it is 100% safe as its only online when I use it for spending. Wallet is also password protected so for 1 I know that my coins just can't get up and go missing.
on the other hand when i'm thinking of these hardware wallets it always comes to my mind how about if some one was able to crack the HASH and just crack wallets like that. what stops a hacker / cracker from doing that now ?
EricKennedy
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December 01, 2014, 08:05:37 PM
 #10

the one thing I would really like to know is the say so one was able to get the HASH that you use to make the SEED. would a person not be able to then just use a database of words used in the seed to make diffrent combines up and try to crack the wallet.

like right now I know the 1 PC that I have with a wallet on it is 100% safe as its only online when I use it for spending. Wallet is also password protected so for 1 I know that my coins just can't get up and go missing.
on the other hand when i'm thinking of these hardware wallets it always comes to my mind how about if some one was able to crack the HASH and just crack wallets like that. what stops a hacker / cracker from doing that now ?

The seed has an entropy of 256 bits so it not more crackable than any other seed. It is after encoded using a dictionary of 2048 words (BIP39), but this is just a mnemonic. It is important to understand that the user doesn't choose the words : the words come from the seed.

For reviewers we have special discount code of 30% (PM sent)

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December 02, 2014, 08:14:26 AM
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the one thing I would really like to know is the say so one was able to get the HASH that you use to make the SEED. would a person not be able to then just use a database of words used in the seed to make diffrent combines up and try to crack the wallet.

like right now I know the 1 PC that I have with a wallet on it is 100% safe as its only online when I use it for spending. Wallet is also password protected so for 1 I know that my coins just can't get up and go missing.
on the other hand when i'm thinking of these hardware wallets it always comes to my mind how about if some one was able to crack the HASH and just crack wallets like that. what stops a hacker / cracker from doing that now ?

The seed has an entropy of 256 bits so it not more crackable than any other seed. It is after encoded using a dictionary of 2048 words (BIP39), but this is just a mnemonic. It is important to understand that the user doesn't choose the words : the words come from the seed.

For reviewers we have special discount code of 30% (PM sent)


These hardware wallets, I mean Trezor, btchip and ledgerwallet solve one of the cold storage problems you have with a paper wallet. You could spend from your coldstorage without exposing all your stash. This problem could be solved with an offline computer running electrum and used to sign transactions built on an online computer, but this is not practical at all.

I see two other problems with cold storage:
  1. Backup of the seed
  2. transmission to your relatives if you die

Backup of the seed is problematic because if you just make a copy of the seed and put it in a safe place, you still have many risks. Fire and theft are the main ones. To avoid fire, you could make many copies, but theft risk increased. To avoid theft, you could put it in a vault, but i don't like banks.
One elegant solution is passguardian, but the output is not elegant (hexadecimal). I tried to provide a more elegant version: http://passguardian.com/. It splits the secret as passguardian does, but output is made of words rather than hexadecimal. This solution is just a proof of concept and need to be tested, adapted to bip39 and integrated in some wallet. Ledgerwallet is a good candidate for this.

I don't have any elegant solution for transmission to relatives.
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December 03, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
 #12

build yourself your own hardware wallet : http://www.acs.com.hk/en/products/274/cryptomate64-client-kit/
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December 08, 2014, 09:14:55 AM
 #13

You claim that it is safe to use Ledger wallet on a compromised computer also.

If there is a specific malware targeted against Ledger, would it not be possible to freeze and take control of your computer after you have entered the pin, then transfer all your bitcoins?

EDIT: I read a bit more about your product. Didn't catch the security card first time. Seems like you got this covered.
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December 14, 2014, 06:35:29 AM
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Good news for your company guys https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hands-ledger-one-worlds-secure-user-friendly-bitcoin-hardware-wallets/
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December 14, 2014, 07:20:49 PM
 #15

I don't have any elegant solution for transmission to relatives.

get two Ledger Wallets initialized with the same seed, different PINs, put the Ledger Wallet along with the written PIN in your will, problem solved  Grin we could rename the "Duo Edition" "Necro Edition", but I'm not sure marketing will approve

build yourself your own hardware wallet : http://www.acs.com.hk/en/products/274/cryptomate64-client-kit/

implementing BIP 32 with PKCS #11 is probably going to be even more painful than to implement it over Java Card. Not even talking about transaction validation here  Kiss


yes appreciating the reviews  Grin

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December 16, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
 #16

A better picture of the Ledger Wallet Nano's box content


EricKennedy
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December 18, 2014, 04:55:16 PM
 #17

Group buy are authorized and encouraged. We can offre free shipping and discounts on bulk order.
Contact us here or on sales@ledgerwallet.com if you are interested!

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December 18, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
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I don't have any elegant solution for transmission to relatives.

get two Ledger Wallets initialized with the same seed, different PINs, put the Ledger Wallet along with the written PIN in your will, problem solved  Grin we could rename the "Duo Edition" "Necro Edition", but I'm not sure marketing will approve


So you are advising me to set all the information needed to get my money in one place. That is very cool for thieves.
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December 19, 2014, 11:20:36 PM
 #19

Ledger Wallet Nano tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzPdYuAYgd8

How to initialize, backup, use and restore your Nano.

EricKennedy
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December 21, 2014, 08:17:09 PM
 #20

A full review of the Ledger Wallet Nano by Coindesk:
http://www.coindesk.com/review-ledger-wallet-nano-provides-premium-security-budget/

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