I am very disturbed when prices are always up and down

[Cassie.Jill]

it will fall what bottom?

$310?
$280?
$100?

or to the moon from now?

[1714924846]

1714924846

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

it will fall what bottom?

$310?
$280?
$100?

or to the moon from now?

This is indeed a very disturbing universe

[fonzie]

1BTC = 1$

[var53]

Nobody can predict the future for you. Even the experts seem to be in two minds about what will happen.

[smalltimer]

83,57$ for a while before declining further and becoming irrelevant.

[dropt]

83,57$ for a while before declining further and becoming irrelevant.

Smalltimer forgot a zero btw.  He/she/it meant $83,570 

[xDan]

It's going to the moon, according to certain definitions of moon, and possibly via $1 along the way, and then back down from the moon settling to around Mt. Everest.

We may see Olympus Mons and the bottom of the Mariana Trench at some point too.

[leen93]

never ever go below 340$
to tha moon from here 

[raskul]

the more bear traps in difficulty by hardware vendors, the higher the price will go. when h/w goes back online, price slumps.
rinse and repeat until block halving.

[Bitcoins101]

I was talking with someone the other day and I said I expect to see bitcoin fall to only a few dollars in value someday. So, the person replied, "So you think Bitcoin is gonna tank?"

No, just because I think we'll see a single-digit bitcoin sometime, doesn't mean "Go directly to single-digits. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bits." We may bounce to $500, bounce down to $300, bounce up to $2,000, $20,000 whatever - Bitcoin is not going to disappear tomorrow.

I have to imagine things 15 years from now in 2030. Everything will be so different. And I have to ask myself, "is Bitcoin still going to be a thing? Will this 20-year old concept still be at the forefront of payment technology? Even Satoshi said it himself - Bitcoin will either be one of the most important components of the global financial system or it will be nonexistent and obsolete.

Most ideas do not succeed. It's so hard for a new technology to succeed, but so, so easy to fail. For something to succeed, everything must go perfectly. For something to fail, only one thing needs to go wrong.

Enjoy Bitcoin while it lasts. It's an extraordinary opportunity and an amazing technology, despite already beginning to show its age. Maybe Bitcoin will be replaced by a better cryptocurrency or maybe cryptocurrencies will be pushed out of the mainstream by easier technologies. Statistically speaking, one of those two things should happen.

[Elwar]

I was a little worried when it went above $400. I had been selling a bunch of bitcoins locally for some profit but have been working on getting an exchange set up to re-purchase everything.

Finally I have that settled so with the price as low as it is I will have a good deal.

The price went up on the "news" that a multi billion dollar hedge fund was investing on the exchange. Apparently Bitcoin users want more confirmation before believing this. Then the FBI sale made some people skittish.

The price belongs in this range until something meaningful happens. It will hop around because that's what Bitcoin does.

[2dogs]

it will fall what bottom?

$310?
$280?
$100?

or to the moon from now?

If you get very disturbed when prices are always up and down, you should not be here.

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

[picolo]

it will fall what bottom?

$310?
$280?
$100?

or to the moon from now?

290$ then it goes back to 500$

[TinaK]

now is wandering with $360

[picolo]

now is wandering with $360

395$, it is moving a lot, it is looking for a direction. There are a lot of shorts in the market but the price is supported by a lot of bulls.

[fewcoins]

now is wandering with $360

395$, it is moving a lot, it is looking for a direction. There are a lot of shorts in the market but the price is supported by a lot of bulls.

Actually the price is moving up because of short covering... Open you eyes guys, no real buying here at all!!!
This is a shorter's market... You ned to join in or just get burned buying the entire way down. GLTA!!

[picolo]

now is wandering with $360

395$, it is moving a lot, it is looking for a direction. There are a lot of shorts in the market but the price is supported by a lot of bulls.

Actually the price is moving up because of short covering... Open you eyes guys, no real buying here at all!!!
This is a shorter's market... You ned to join in or just get burned buying the entire way down. GLTA!!

So why is it at 380$ if everyone is shorting and nobody's buying?

[biggus dickus]

now is wandering with $360

395$, it is moving a lot, it is looking for a direction. There are a lot of shorts in the market but the price is supported by a lot of bulls.

Actually the price is moving up because of short covering... Open you eyes guys, no real buying here at all!!!
This is a shorter's market... You ned to join in or just get burned buying the entire way down. GLTA!!

So why is it at 380$ if everyone is shorting and nobody's buying?

Each low seems to be higher than the last. How did we get to a high of $395 if there is no real buying?

[RodeoX]

Your not going to like the future then. The bitcoin price is supposed to be free to go up and down. The stock market would do the same if it were not rigged.

[picolo]

Your not going to like the future then. The bitcoin price is supposed to be free to go up and down. The stock market would do the same if it were not rigged.

Stocks lose 30% in a week but currencies usually have much lower fluctuations.

[RodeoX]

Your not going to like the future then. The bitcoin price is supposed to be free to go up and down. The stock market would do the same if it were not rigged.

Stocks lose 30% in a week but currencies usually have much lower fluctuations.

That's true. But (fiat)currencies are very manipulated and over time they crash also. With stocks the value is backed by the profits of the issuing company.

[freedomno1]

Just another day in Bitcoin
Always the bond market if you don't want to much risk (Except a sovereign debt crisis)
But then if that happens you probably didn't get good bonds lol.

[picolo]

Just another day in Bitcoin
Always the bond market if you don't want to much risk (Except a sovereign debt crisis)
But then if that happens you probably didn't get good bonds lol.

If you buy bonds and they pay you back with a devalued currency, you can end up losing most your principal.

[xcapator]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

[Feneusens]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

[poncom]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

I don't speculate in that way, sorry

1BTC = 1BTC

if I don't find the means to spend my coins on real-world assets in my lifetime, then my children will.
I don't have any requirement to cash-out any of the coins I mine, therefore, my mining rig is always profitable.
However I'm sure there may be someone here that can answer your question in their own personal capacity.

[fewcoins]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

I don't speculate in that way, sorry

1BTC = 1BTC

if I don't find the means to spend my coins on real-world assets in my lifetime, then my children will.
I don't have any requirement to cash-out any of the coins I mine, therefore, my mining rig is always profitable.
However I'm sure there may be someone here that can answer your question in their own personal capacity.

For the hobbyist miner the 350 level becomes very very minimal profit for people who don't even pay electricity... For the guys with huge farms they are getting coins at double digit prices! Amazing profit & that's why most of them sell right away! Mega-Miners are currently minting the bitcoin price to the floor!

To people talking about leaving bitcoins for their kids as if it's real estate please get your heads checked... How many companies that released revolutionary products, protocols, or services are still around today??? Now imagine in the technology sector where a new iPad 9 is being made even before iPad 8 is released... Catch my drift??? Funds and ideas are already moving out of bitcoin in order to make something really sustainable that will last & be picked up by the mainstream.

Unfortunately, Bitcoin can't survive too much longer...

[raskul]

For the hobbyist miner the 350 level becomes very very minimal profit for people who don't even pay electricity...

you are deluded. i stopped reading right there.

[xcapator]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

[picolo]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

If you buy a stock you will win/lose too and you will have large fluctuations, the key is to be patient.

[ikydesu]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

If you buy a stock you will win/lose too and you will have large fluctuations, the key is to be patient.

Agree.
but, not just any patience, agility and speed of take advantage of opportunities are also needed.

[grappa_barricata]

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

Non-industrial miners are already below sustainable price: the most efficient just slightly, the least efficient a whole order of magnitude!

[C10H15N]

If volatility is troubling, perhaps crypto is not for you.   

[picolo]

If volatility is troubling, perhaps crypto is not for you.   

You have volatility with Gold, in the stock market or if you trade anything that has a small market, is speculative in nature and is at an early stage of development.

[arbitrage001]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

[picolo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

If it was the $ the price of everything else will be very volatile. I think Bitcoin's price is a bit volatile but still great to have bitcoins it will get less volatile.

[yayayo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

Exactly. It's all a question of the point of reference.

If you believe that Bitcoin will become a dominant world currency with most goods and services priced in Bitcoin then Bitcoin is the right reference point.
In this case, the thing you call "volatility" today will then be called price inflation / deflation...

Even if the USD is your point of reference, you will experience guaranteed loss of purchasing power by holding this fiat money.

ya.ya.yo!

[picolo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

Exactly. It's all a question of the point of reference.

If you believe that Bitcoin will become a dominant world currency with most goods and services priced in Bitcoin then Bitcoin is the right reference point.
In this case, the thing you call "volatility" today will then be called price inflation / deflation...

Even if the USD is your point of reference, you will experience guaranteed loss of purchasing power by holding this fiat money.

ya.ya.yo!

If you hold USD long enough you will lose purchasing power but if you hold it and what you wanted to buy crash you will experience an increase of purchasing power.

[yayayo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

Exactly. It's all a question of the point of reference.

If you believe that Bitcoin will become a dominant world currency with most goods and services priced in Bitcoin then Bitcoin is the right reference point.
In this case, the thing you call "volatility" today will then be called price inflation / deflation...

Even if the USD is your point of reference, you will experience guaranteed loss of purchasing power by holding this fiat money.

ya.ya.yo!

If you hold USD long enough you will lose purchasing power but if you hold it and what you wanted to buy crash you will experience an increase of purchasing power.

Yes, but I was referring to the longterm case.

All "investment" is speculative to some degree - meaning that it involves uncertainty, because not all price movements can be predicted (or to word it better: most price movements can't be predicted...). So investing into Bitcoin involves "volatility" risk.
But if you invest into USD (or holding your investment) you are not only exposed to volatility risk, you're exposed to the additional systemic risk of inflationary devaluation. So with Bitcoin you're exposed to volatility, but with USD you're exposed to volatility within a declining value trend.

ya.ya.yo!.

[picolo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

Exactly. It's all a question of the point of reference.

If you believe that Bitcoin will become a dominant world currency with most goods and services priced in Bitcoin then Bitcoin is the right reference point.
In this case, the thing you call "volatility" today will then be called price inflation / deflation...

Even if the USD is your point of reference, you will experience guaranteed loss of purchasing power by holding this fiat money.

ya.ya.yo!

If you hold USD long enough you will lose purchasing power but if you hold it and what you wanted to buy crash you will experience an increase of purchasing power.

Yes, but I was referring to the longterm case.

All "investment" is speculative to some degree - meaning that it involves uncertainty, because not all price movements can be predicted (or to word it better: most price movements can't be predicted...). So investing into Bitcoin involves "volatility" risk.
But if you invest into USD (or holding your investment) you are not only exposed to volatility risk, you're exposed to the additional systemic risk of inflationary devaluation. So with Bitcoin you're exposed to volatility, but with USD you're exposed to volatility within a declining value trend.

ya.ya.yo!.

Nobody knows exactly how and most importantly when a market will move but when you have central banks thinking you can solve problems and create wealth by creating money, you can expect them to do just that.

Therefore you can expect Bitcoin and Gold to increase in nominal terms and even become even more valuable compared to other goods since they are a competitor of fiat currencies.