I am very disturbed when prices are always up and down

[RodeoX]

Your not going to like the future then. The bitcoin price is supposed to be free to go up and down. The stock market would do the same if it were not rigged.

Stocks lose 30% in a week but currencies usually have much lower fluctuations.

That's true. But (fiat)currencies are very manipulated and over time they crash also. With stocks the value is backed by the profits of the issuing company.

[freedomno1]

Just another day in Bitcoin
Always the bond market if you don't want to much risk (Except a sovereign debt crisis)
But then if that happens you probably didn't get good bonds lol.

[picolo]

Just another day in Bitcoin
Always the bond market if you don't want to much risk (Except a sovereign debt crisis)
But then if that happens you probably didn't get good bonds lol.

If you buy bonds and they pay you back with a devalued currency, you can end up losing most your principal.

[xcapator]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

[Feneusens]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

[poncom]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

[raskul]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

I don't speculate in that way, sorry

1BTC = 1BTC

if I don't find the means to spend my coins on real-world assets in my lifetime, then my children will.
I don't have any requirement to cash-out any of the coins I mine, therefore, my mining rig is always profitable.
However I'm sure there may be someone here that can answer your question in their own personal capacity.

[fewcoins]

well.. btc moving really slowly now cos what happens today and probably tomorrow will decide whether we go below 350 or not. Personally I think we are going sub 300..

a drop in price might be a good thing for miners. difficulty charts are showing a kind of unsureness in miners commitments, it's neither up nor down if you study it closely. we could be looking at a nice drop in difficulty if the price does drop to $300. I don't mind either way to be honest, but it's interesting times you must admit.

Not if you factor in your electricity charges, you might suddenly end up paying more bills then what you get..

That is.. if the only reason to mine is to sell the BTC as you mine it.
I shouldn't go into the discussion on electric costs as I am more fortunate than most, but factoring in electric costs is indeed part of the prospecting of the currency.

look at it this way: BTC is 25 coins per block (phase 2)... before too long, that block reward is going to halve. Currently, it's the age of the corporate miner and because of this, prices are going to be suppressed until mining returns back to the enthusiast. I do this because i'm an enthusiast and a hobbyist, I don't do it to make a monthly income. I'd urge that others think similarly - if you are mining with the most efficient h/w then you should still have some BTC left over after the electric costs are covered. Now is not a time to cash-in on every satoshi you mine, now is a time to hoard whatever you can.

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

I don't speculate in that way, sorry

1BTC = 1BTC

if I don't find the means to spend my coins on real-world assets in my lifetime, then my children will.
I don't have any requirement to cash-out any of the coins I mine, therefore, my mining rig is always profitable.
However I'm sure there may be someone here that can answer your question in their own personal capacity.

For the hobbyist miner the 350 level becomes very very minimal profit for people who don't even pay electricity... For the guys with huge farms they are getting coins at double digit prices! Amazing profit & that's why most of them sell right away! Mega-Miners are currently minting the bitcoin price to the floor!

To people talking about leaving bitcoins for their kids as if it's real estate please get your heads checked... How many companies that released revolutionary products, protocols, or services are still around today??? Now imagine in the technology sector where a new iPad 9 is being made even before iPad 8 is released... Catch my drift??? Funds and ideas are already moving out of bitcoin in order to make something really sustainable that will last & be picked up by the mainstream.

Unfortunately, Bitcoin can't survive too much longer...

[raskul]

For the hobbyist miner the 350 level becomes very very minimal profit for people who don't even pay electricity...

you are deluded. i stopped reading right there.

[xcapator]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

[picolo]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

If you buy a stock you will win/lose too and you will have large fluctuations, the key is to be patient.

[ikydesu]

People are just scared to buy and hold, the large volume and price jumping around is people buying and dumping, all afraid to lose more, but also afraid of missing the train to moon.

If you buy a stock you will win/lose too and you will have large fluctuations, the key is to be patient.

Agree.
but, not just any patience, agility and speed of take advantage of opportunities are also needed.

[grappa_barricata]

I know this is a very subjective question and that thee have been numerous debates here about it. However, in your opinion what price does bitcoin have to drop to before the average hobbyist miner with the most efficient h/w is mining at a loss?

Non-industrial miners are already below sustainable price: the most efficient just slightly, the least efficient a whole order of magnitude!

[C10H15N]

If volatility is troubling, perhaps crypto is not for you.   

[picolo]

If volatility is troubling, perhaps crypto is not for you.   

You have volatility with Gold, in the stock market or if you trade anything that has a small market, is speculative in nature and is at an early stage of development.

[arbitrage001]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

[picolo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

If it was the $ the price of everything else will be very volatile. I think Bitcoin's price is a bit volatile but still great to have bitcoins it will get less volatile.

[yayayo]

Look at it another way, it is fiat that is volatile.

Exactly. It's all a question of the point of reference.

If you believe that Bitcoin will become a dominant world currency with most goods and services priced in Bitcoin then Bitcoin is the right reference point.
In this case, the thing you call "volatility" today will then be called price inflation / deflation...

Even if the USD is your point of reference, you will experience guaranteed loss of purchasing power by holding this fiat money.

ya.ya.yo!