Proof that Ripple numbers are manipulated by Coinmarketcap, there is no boom!

[princesultan1]

Hello all. So I put a considerable amount of money into ripple yesterday because I got caught up in the hype. After reading some of these posts that say that it all may be a scam, I wish to get them back to BTC. I have sold my ripple but they are still 'stuck' as BTC in ripple's snapswap. I realize that I'm an idiot, but is there a way that I can get my coins back to my BTC wallet?

You have three choices:

1) Follow snapswap's withdrawal process. I've never withdrawn BTC from snapswap, but the usual way is that they give you a destination tag, you make a Ripple payment in BTC to their address with that destination tag and they credit your snapswap account. Then you withdraw to a BTC wallet using their web interface.

2) If you don't like snapswap's withdrawal process, exchange your snapswap BTC inside Ripple for another asset that you can more easily withdraw.

3) Make one or more direct payments to Bitcoin addresses from the Ripple client.

I'm probably one of the biggest Ripple supporters that there is, one of the first people to work on it, one of the designers of the protocol, and employed by Ripple Labs. There is no scam. However, the price of XRP is extremely volatile and behaves entirely unpredictably. I do not ever recommend people buy XRP as any kind of investment. There is always a significant possibility that its value can drop drastically, possibly even to zero, in a very short period of time.

I don't think anybody knows why the price of XRP surged over the past few days. It is almost axiomatic that it can drop just as quickly and nobody really know why. Buying on hype is a particularly bad idea. It is basically mathematically impossible for everyone to buy on the rise and sell before a subsequent decline. It is even possible for Ripple to succeed wildly as a payment system and the value of XRP not go up significantly.

Okay, but as long as I have them converted as BTC into my wallet at ripple, then I should get that exact amount of BTC at some point, correct?

Maybe, maybe not. That's up to the gateway. Ripple can't force anyone to give you BTC if they haven't agreed to do so. I believe snapswap BTC can be sent over the outbound bridge at no fee, meaning you should get the exact amount out if you send to a Bitcoin address from the Ripple client.

Hi Joel,

You say that you do not recommend XRP as an investment, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a big part of Ripple Labs revenue model appreciation of XRP? I thought I read that somewhere...

[hypostatization]

I don't understand why there's so much hate on ripple

Mining difficulty algorithm is boken

I found Ripple through interest in Bitcoin. I evaluated it according to how it differed from all the ways Bitcoin is great. Ripple did not perfectly fit its framework. Understanding Bitcoin is difficult at first. Learning about Ripple was even harder for me. It was easier to passively absorb criticisms about Ripple on this forum, and I fell into that trap for a while. SCAM

After repeat frustrations with centralized exchanges---experiencing firsthand the threat of centralized exchanges---I began to look at alternatives more seriously. NXT had yet to launch, and so Ripple dominated my focus. I gave it a shot, and... I walked away unimpressed. And that cycle repeated itself several times. Each time I grasped the concept a little more deeply. I dug  the idealistic concept underpinning it, and a lot of ideas about the how the system could be used spun up in my head. I kept coming back to mined alts, but developed a side fixation. I unexpectedly found myself defending it, and it has been a slow and steady build since.

/former hater

[Zer0Sum]

Hello all. So I put a considerable amount of money into ripple yesterday because I got caught up in the hype. After reading some of these posts that say that it all may be a scam, I wish to get them back to BTC. I have sold my ripple but they are still 'stuck' as BTC in ripple's snapswap. I realize that I'm an idiot, but is there a way that I can get my coins back to my BTC wallet?

don't think anybody knows why the price of XRP surged over the past few days. It is almost axiomatic that it can drop just as quickly and nobody really know why.

Assuming you are not a straight up crook (which is hard to do circa late-2014), do you realize how naive you are?

(1)  The XRP market is totally dominated by insider whales. They know exactly what will happen and why.
Even a sophisticated outsider will get constantly blind-sided by insiders.

(2)  The 2 months I traded XRP daily there did not appear to be any fees. Markets where certain
participants pay no fees or minimal fees have inflated and meaningless volume.  

(3)  XRP is trading at << 50% of mid-2013 levels in terms of BTC. It's been a horrific "investment"...
except of course for insider whales.

(4)  Ripple Labs is an extremely secretive and disingenuous company. You can assume everything
is some kind of misdirection. All that hooey about "helping migrant African laborers" is baloney.  
And I don't trust any of the numbers on Ripple Charts. They go back only 3 days for a reason.

[JoelKatz]

Hi Joel,

You say that you do not recommend XRP as an investment, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a big part of Ripple Labs revenue model appreciation of XRP? I thought I read that somewhere...

Yes.

(1)  The XRP market is totally dominated by insider whales. They know exactly what will happen and why.
Even a sophisticated outsider will get constantly blind-sided by insiders.

I guess I can't refute a conspiracy theory, and maybe I am naive, but I genuinely don't think this is true. I'm not sure which variation of this you believe (for example, that there's insider information about Ripple Labs that affects the rational expected future value of XRP or that it's all manipulation and there's no real news), but the version I believe is essentially that the vast majority of the time, the market moves primarily on momentum. That is, when the price is rising, people buy just because they figure they can sell when it gets higher, which continues to push the price up. And when the price is dropping, even people who like to hold XRP may sell figuring they can buy back when it's lower.

I guess you can disagree with me, and if you do, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasoning because I am fully aware of the possibility that I might be wrong.

(2)  The 2 months I traded XRP daily there did not appear to be any fees. Markets where certain
participants pay no fees or minimal fees have inflated and meaningless volume.

That's probably true. XRP is basically feeless except for a tiny transaction fee. So I agree that total volume is meaningless. One useful metric is to look at volume only where there are fees, for example XRP to/from Bitstamp BTC. You can use that volume as a proxy for total volume. Manipulation will appear mostly in feeless market.

(3)  XRP is trading at << 50% of mid-2013 levels in terms of BTC. It's been a horrific "investment"...
except of course for insider whales.

I absolutely agree that XRP is not a sensible investment and that prices can drop drastically in short periods of time for no apparent reasons. Also, there are constant regulatory, technical, and business risks that could make XRP worthless overnight.

(4)  Ripple Labs is an extremely secretive and disingenuous company. You can assume everything
is some kind of misdirection. All that hooey about "helping migrant African laborers" is baloney. 
And I don't trust any of the numbers on Ripple Charts. They go back only 3 days for a reason.

I'm a member of the Board of Directors of Ripple Labs, I don't have to assume much of anything. The partnerships we're working on are secret. Generally, we would prefer to release that information and announce them as soon as we can. You're certainly entitled to be skeptical of our intentions. If you happen to be in San Francisco some time, let me know and I'll show you who we are and what we're doing, and maybe that will ease some of your skepticism.

[princesultan1]

Hi Joel,

You say that you do not recommend XRP as an investment, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a big part of Ripple Labs revenue model appreciation of XRP? I thought I read that somewhere...

Yes.

OK, so why shouldn't we invest in XRP if that's your whole premise? If we like the direction that Ripp!e has been heading in (I've personally been following since December) and we believe in the company/team/strategy, then why would you recommend against investment if the price of XRP is your whole model?

[JoelKatz]

OK, so why shouldn't we invest in XRP if that's your whole premise? If we like the direction that Ripp!e has been heading in (I've personally been following since December) and we believe in the company/team/strategy, then why would you recommend against investment if the price of XRP is your whole model?

Several reasons. One is that Ripple Labs has different legal obligations to its investors than it does to people who hold XRP. Another is that there's no guarantee Ripple Labs' business model will stay the same over time. Lastly, there's always a chance that the Ripple network will succeed as a payment system without the price of XRP appreciating significantly. For example, if the Federal Reserve issues dollars on the Ripple network with no transfer fee, that could become preferred over XRP.

Also, I don't think anyone really understands what's moving the price of XRP. So the risk and expected rewards are essentially uncomputable.

[princesultan1]

OK, so why shouldn't we invest in XRP if that's your whole premise? If we like the direction that Ripp!e has been heading in (I've personally been following since December) and we believe in the company/team/strategy, then why would you recommend against investment if the price of XRP is your whole model?

Several reasons. One is that Ripple Labs has different legal obligations to its investors than it does to people who hold XRP. Another is that there's no guarantee Ripple Labs' business model will stay the same over time. Lastly, there's always a chance that the Ripple network will succeed as a payment system without the price of XRP appreciating significantly. For example, if the Federal Reserve issues dollars on the Ripple network with no transfer fee, that could become preferred over XRP.

Also, I don't think anyone really understands what's moving the price of XRP. So the risk and expected rewards are essentially uncomputable.

Your response makes sense, but is obviously exceptionally conservative as well

[TheMage]

Also, I don't think anyone really understands what's moving the price of XRP. So the risk and expected rewards are essentially uncomputable.

Second time ive seen you say this, and as a director on the ripple board I call BS. You know full well why the price is going up, it has to do with the fact that you airdropped coins enough to weasel into the second place on coinmarketcap. Who did those coins go to?



I'm flatly going to say it for those ripple lovers. No one is hating ripple as a coin, the hate is coming from the fact that ripple is NOT just a coin, its a company. The community hates your company. Its the same as GAW (I think it was GAW) posting that they will be creating a coin. Guess how well thats going to go over? My crystal ball says not very well.


I'll post a more detailed thread tomorrow.

[solid12345]

I'm flatly going to say it for those ripple lovers. No one is hating ripple as a coin, the hate is coming from the fact that ripple is NOT just a coin, its a company. The community hates your company.

What companies does this "community" like? My experience is anytime a business tries to get into crypto they automatically get viewed with distrust and suspicion. But yea, fuck capitalism and all that, we can just trade our Bitcoins for magic beans and Guy Fawkes masks.

[ThomasVeil]

Assuming you are not a straight up crook (which is hard to do circa late-2014), do you realize how naive you are?

(1)  The XRP market is totally dominated by insider whales. They know exactly what will happen and why.
Even a sophisticated outsider will get constantly blind-sided by insiders.

(2)  The 2 months I traded XRP daily there did not appear to be any fees. Markets where certain
participants pay no fees or minimal fees have inflated and meaningless volume.  

(3)  XRP is trading at << 50% of mid-2013 levels in terms of BTC. It's been a horrific "investment"...
except of course for insider whales.

(4)  Ripple Labs is an extremely secretive and disingenuous company. You can assume everything
is some kind of misdirection. All that hooey about "helping migrant African laborers" is baloney.  
And I don't trust any of the numbers on Ripple Charts. They go back only 3 days for a reason.

Exactly this!
Basically all coins have massive whales that can manipulate. Though generally they also take a risk when doing that. But with 80%+ in the hands of the creators, that risk is totally oversized in Ripple.
There is a reason that insider-trading is forbidden. In crypto that is not enforced - but that means that users have to beware of the risk and avoid it.

[Sukrim]

Also, I don't think anyone really understands what's moving the price of XRP. So the risk and expected rewards are essentially uncomputable.

Second time ive seen you say this, and as a director on the ripple board I call BS. You know full well why the price is going up, it has to do with the fact that you airdropped coins enough to weasel into the second place on coinmarketcap. Who did those coins go to?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=873067.msg9659498#msg9659498

Quoting coinmarketcap as your primary source is like writing your PhD based on a Wikipedia article...

I'm flatly going to say it for those ripple lovers. No one is hating ripple as a coin, the hate is coming from the fact that ripple is NOT just a coin, its a company. The community hates your company. Its the same as GAW (I think it was GAW) posting that they will be creating a coin. Guess how well thats going to go over? My crystal ball says not very well.

I'll post a more detailed thread tomorrow.

"The community" loved MtGox, loved GPUMax + BTCS&T, loved ButterflyLabs... as well as some actually cool companies that do great things. Being hated by the bitcointalk community is not exactly a show stopper or indication for any kind of trustworthyness, just as being loved by it is neither.

[darthcoin]

https://archive.org/web/

Source is from the way back machine.

What Ripple did was get Gliss (possible allegation of bribes?) to manipulate the number of available Ripple coins, even though well over 90%+ of Ripple has always been held by the developers.    

Since they control so much of Ripple (90%+ in actuality) they can pump and dump all day and manipulate the price too.

ripple = 100% premined = scam

Who gives a shit about Ripple anyway? I certainly don't

[kanaas]

Who gives a shit about Ripple anyway? I certainly don't

You might not, but +3M$ seem to like Ripple, every day again ...  

[shanem]

The price of Ripple is manipulated through massive increase of supply.
The coin supply has increased 4 times but its value has only increased by less than half.

[hypostatization]

The price of Ripple is manipulated through massive increase of supply.
The coin supply has increased 4 times but its value has only increased by less than half.

Issue has been addressed multiple times in other threads.

[kanaas]

The price of Ripple is manipulated through massive increase of supply.
The coin supply has increased 4 times but its value has only increased by less than half.

Hello smarty?
Ever traded on a stock market?
Massive increase of supply will ALWAYS cause a sharp fallback. Need more buyers to eat them you know 

[solid12345]

am I the only one who lulz at the idea a company who is working with the trillion dollar Royal Bank of Scotland cares enough to manipulate coinmarketcap to get all the crypto kids who don't have more than two nickels to rub together excited to pump it up?

Just because "we" don't like Ripple doesn't mean you have to go full retard.

[JoelKatz]

Also, I don't think anyone really understands what's moving the price of XRP. So the risk and expected rewards are essentially uncomputable.

Second time ive seen you say this, and as a director on the ripple board I call BS. You know full well why the price is going up, it has to do with the fact that you airdropped coins enough to weasel into the second place on coinmarketcap. Who did those coins go to?

Are you saying that increasing the supply of XRP increases the price? That seems to fly in the face of basic economics. Are you saying people are reliably fooled by big numbers on coinmarketcap into thinking the price is rising when it's not and that makes the price rise? That is, I guess, possible, but I certainly don't believe it's significant.

The short term price of XRP really is not that important to Ripple Labs. To some extent, it's seen as a measure of the health of the company and to some extent our success may depend on what people perceive our chances of major success are. But increases in price based on manipulation or misinformation are almost always going to be followed by comparable drops in price. If we like the message price increases signal, it follows that we don't like the message price drops signal. Ripple Labs is not a short term speculator in XRP.

There certainly are short term speculators in XRP who have an incentive to manipulate the price to buy low and sell high. But Ripple Labs is not one of them and their actions hurt us at least as much as they help us. We'd prefer a stable price to a sharp rise followed by a comparable drop.

I don't think there's any way to trick or manipulate the market into an increase in price that won't be followed by a similar decrease. And I don't think such increases or decreases are always due to manipulation because momentum trading alone can do it as well.

You're welcome to disagree with me, of course, but I share my views freely and openly and always try to explain why I hold these views. I don't appreciate unfounded accusations of dishonesty. I'm very open to contrary views and always willing to change my opinions based on evidence or argument. I fully recognize that I could be wrong about this and basically, my position is essentially that market prices in the absence of real changes to asset fundamentals are basically just chaos.

[steelhouse]

Marketcap is worthless.  What should be tracked is 1 year change in price.

[Spoetnik]

I don't understand why there's so much hate on ripple

Then your deaf or a noob.. it was discussed like a year ago and they waited quietly for idiots *again.. and well here we are.. all over again.
And if this attempt fails they will go back into hiding and wait and do it all over again.

If you don't know why Ripple is gay then your ears are plugged.. go do your homework.. or clean your fucking ears LOL

Part of the problem is we have a new generation of scammy little pricks that decided IPO scams are legit.
Ripple started it all hahhaha

So yeah of course these idiots don't get it and dived on it.. they are morons who want Lambo's and no sleazy faggy IPO is going to get in their way.

So yeah a centralized non mined coin that is EVEN worse than a shitty IPO ICO ITO IPO ICO ITO IPO ITO ICO OIP C ITO IPC
IS THIS FAGGOTRY.. called Ripple

I hope you all get burned on this shitty gay bullshit hard.. many of you need to learn some lessons !