[ANNOUNCE] TORwallet - anonymous mixing wallet service

[TORwallet]

Mod note: probable scam.

http://www.torwallet.net/TORwallet.png

We are proud to announce the opening of TORwallet. After weeks of development and testing we are ready to open to the public.

We operate virtually identically to instawallet, except for the fact that we are only accessible over Tor and our service is designed to mix coins as it is used. The more users we have, the more anonymous withdrawn coins will be.

For a small fee, users can request to have all coins on TORwallet sent to the same address in a single transaction, mixing them so that it becomes impossible to tell which input a withdraw comes from.

You probably want to know why you should trust us. Our answer is don't. Only deposit as many coins as you are willing to lose while we build trust in the community.

http://nci2szjrwjqw2zbi.onion/

http://torwallet.net/

Code:

SHA1 Fingerprint:

6B:81:E3:55:B7:F7:B6:71:33:CA:5C:20:73:7D:18:A4:A1:4i0:D0:B1

[Daily Anarchist]

Very nice! Thank you for creating this. If I were starting any sort of new Bitcoin venture, it would likely be Tor accessible only. We really need to migrate to Onionland, IMO.

[Garr255]

Very nice! Thank you for creating this. If I were starting any sort of new Bitcoin venture, it would likely be Tor accessible only. We really need to migrate to Onionland, IMO.

If we're legal and COM/ORG/NET land doesn't have a problem, then why?

[Daily Anarchist]

Very nice! Thank you for creating this. If I were starting any sort of new Bitcoin venture, it would likely be Tor accessible only. We really need to migrate to Onionland, IMO.

If we're legal and COM/ORG/NET land doesn't have a problem, then why?

Because we won't be legal forever. I'd be willing to bet cash money FedGov attacks Bitcoin within 3-5 years.

[Gabi]

Why not? If you are legal you have no problem being o ntor 

[Daily Anarchist]

I know Tor people get pissy about this sometimes. Perhaps a recommendation would be switching the name to TorWallet instead of TORwallet.

[dancingnancy]

Interesting.

So, just to make sure I am getting this right.  When you go to the link you provided, the link that actually pops up in the URL bar is now "your" personal URL/wallet?  I have never used instawallet before, this looks pretty cool.  

The part I don't understand fully though is the mixing part.  It says they are mixed everyday regardless on the website?  So you would only pay extra if you wanted your coins "washed" immediately or something?

If you don't mind me asking, how do you plan on generating profit from this?  

[TORwallet]

Interesting.

So, just to make sure I am getting this right.  When you go to the link you provided, the link that actually pops up in the URL bar is now "your" personal URL/wallet?  I have never used instawallet before, this looks pretty cool.  

The part I don't understand fully though is the mixing part.  It says they are mixed everyday regardless on the website?  So you would only pay extra if you wanted your coins "washed" immediately or something?

If you don't mind me asking, how do you plan on generating profit from this?  

The mixing fees. We are currently doing it manually and paying our own fee, this is temporary. We've update the site to clarify this.

------------

Bitcoin is legal in COM/NET/ORG, but mixing them is probably not or will not be, hence the requirement to use tor.

[dancingnancy]

Interesting.

So, just to make sure I am getting this right.  When you go to the link you provided, the link that actually pops up in the URL bar is now "your" personal URL/wallet?  I have never used instawallet before, this looks pretty cool. 

The part I don't understand fully though is the mixing part.  It says they are mixed everyday regardless on the website?  So you would only pay extra if you wanted your coins "washed" immediately or something?

If you don't mind me asking, how do you plan on generating profit from this? 

The mixing fees. We are currently doing it manually and paying our own fee, this is temporary. We've update the site to clarify this.

OK.  Makes sense.  So, I haven't been in the BTC community for long, I probably have some dumb questions.

a)  Since the user doesn't have control of the wallet.dat file, where is this thing actually located?  Like for instance, can your website just shut down and then the user doesn't have access to funds?  Kind of like what happened w/Bitcoinica?

b)  Knowing this, are our deposits (any portion) going into any type of risk associated assets?  Like for instance, you are only keeping 80% of users capital on site, then using the other 20% for proprietary purposes?

c)  If this is the case, then shouldn't users be paid interest on deposits? 

d)  Sorry, that is why I wondered how you planned on generating profit.  If it is solely through bitcoin mixing and you have enough users I guess that would make sense.  I am really more concerned though about the first couple points, but maybe I don't fully understand the process.

Thanks.

[TORwallet]

Interesting.

So, just to make sure I am getting this right.  When you go to the link you provided, the link that actually pops up in the URL bar is now "your" personal URL/wallet?  I have never used instawallet before, this looks pretty cool. 

The part I don't understand fully though is the mixing part.  It says they are mixed everyday regardless on the website?  So you would only pay extra if you wanted your coins "washed" immediately or something?

If you don't mind me asking, how do you plan on generating profit from this? 

The mixing fees. We are currently doing it manually and paying our own fee, this is temporary. We've update the site to clarify this.

OK.  Makes sense.  So, I haven't been in the BTC community for long, I probably have some dumb questions.

a)  Since the user doesn't have control of the wallet.dat file, where is this thing actually located?  Like for instance, can your website just shut down and then the user doesn't have access to funds?  Kind of like what happened w/Bitcoinica?

b)  Knowing this, are our deposits (any portion) going into any type of risk associated assets?  Like for instance, you are only keeping 80% of users capital on site, then using the other 20% for proprietary purposes?

c)  If this is the case, then shouldn't users be paid interest on deposits? 

d)  Sorry, that is why I wondered how you planned on generating profit.  If it is solely through bitcoin mixing and you have enough users I guess that would make sense.  I am really more concerned though about the first couple points, but maybe I don't fully understand the process.

Thanks.

a) It is kept on our server, this is necessary for any mixing service because we need to move the coins in order to mix them. Operating through tor also reduces out risk of hacking, since the only access anyone has to the server is through port 80.

b) No customer coins will ever leave the wallet.

c) n/a

d) Profits are through mixing alone.

[Polvos]

I have two questions:

- ¿How are you supposed to laundry bitcoins if only tainted coins owners use your service?
- If you want to mix coins: why perfectly clear bitcoins users should use your service?

[TORwallet]

I have two questions:

- ¿How are you supposed to laundry bitcoins if only tainted coins owners use your service?
- If you want to mix coins: why perfectly clear bitcoins users should use your service?

It provides a complete disconnect between the input coins and output coins. Anyone tracing coins will not be able to tell where any particular coin went or came from, only that you used our service.

We will be manually inserting clean coins and mixing "dirty" ones through other wallet services. Automation is planned but we have not completed our risk analysis yet.

Clean users are welcome to use our service, it is a easy to use and convenient, and we welcome access through tor2web. I personally like my privacy and always mix my coins regardless of where I'm sending them.

[Foxpup]

I have two questions:

- ¿How are you supposed to laundry bitcoins if only tainted coins owners use your service?
- If you want to mix coins: why perfectly clear bitcoins users should use your service?

Because "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide" is a load of BS. Do you really want your boss (who pays you in bitcoins because we're imagining a hypothetical future in which bitcoins are mainstream) finding out that you're spending your paycheck on porn? Is that the sort of future you really want?

[mb300sd]

I'll use it with a couple BTC.. sounds interesting at least.

[Gladamas]

I tried this and it is absolutely awesome! The 3% fee for mixing coins is reasonable too. You send coins to the deposit address provided, then you save the address and can send the coins wherever you like, or mix them for a fee. (FYI: 3% of 16.667 BTC = .5 BTC, the minimum mixing fee.)

[marcus_of_augustus]

I have two questions:

- ¿How are you supposed to laundry bitcoins if only tainted coins owners use your service?
- If you want to mix coins: why perfectly clear bitcoins users should use your service?

Because "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide" is a load of BS. Do you really want your boss (who pays you in bitcoins because we're imagining a hypothetical future in which bitcoins are mainstream) finding out that you're spending your paycheck on porn? Is that the sort of future you really want?

If you've done nothing wrong they've got no reason to look .... is the obvious corollary to the old statist chestnut ... and the antidote of course.

Presumption of innocence .... was the basis of all common law until he present era of big, fat, nosey state, we are all criminals now under the presumption of guilt doctrine.

[Akemashite Omedetou]

Just wanted to point out that we've been operating a similar service for about 7 months now, with the focus on the security, we haven't had a single breach of security, our fees are around 2% (1%-3% randomized, to increase obscurity), and we have a solid user base and thousands of bitcoins going through every day, and volume means a lot in an anonymization service.
www.bitcoinfog.com (a freenet page with some information)
http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion (the address you must use, only accessible through Tor)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50037.0 (main discussion topic)

But hey, competition is always good for users, new features get developed faster

[Polvos]

I have two questions:

- ¿How are you supposed to laundry bitcoins if only tainted coins owners use your service?
- If you want to mix coins: why perfectly clear bitcoins users should use your service?

Because "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide" is a load of BS. Do you really want your boss (who pays you in bitcoins because we're imagining a hypothetical future in which bitcoins are mainstream) finding out that you're spending your paycheck on porn? Is that the sort of future you really want?

Hey, hey, I'm with you. I'm a libertarian. But what I'd like to mark with my questions is the absolutely need of a fee-coin-melting miner in a serious laundry service .

In my opinion the fee-melting is the only way to get your coins laundered. The first one I heard about the melting service was Death and Taxes. He could explain it better. I'm only a loyal devote of the idea.

[kangasbros]

I don't see the reasons why people use mixing services, and pay a hefty fee:

- Almost all exchanges tumble their coins to my knowledge
- Almost all web services tumble their coins (this is just easiest way to implement a service, one wallet for all users).
- Silk Road tumbles their coins, etc.
- etc etc

So why pay for laundrying? Laundry service probably provides you coins that someone else wanted to launder previously. So I see no difference to actually just depositing your coins to some random web service, and then withdrawing them after a while. Usually it is fraction of the cost.

[Ente]

Just wanted to point out that we've been operating a similar service for about 7 months now, with the focus on the security, we haven't had a single breach of security, our fees are around 2% (1%-3% randomized, to increase obscurity), and we have a solid user base and thousands of bitcoins going through every day, and volume means a lot in an anonymization service.
www.bitcoinfog.com (a freenet page with some information)
http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion (the address you must use, only accessible through Tor)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50037.0 (main discussion topic)

But hey, competition is always good for users, new features get developed faster

Its not too kind to advertise ones own, basically identical service in a competitor's thread, you know?
It would be very kind, however, if said person offered a strategic alliance to exchange and mix coins, so both services and all users gain. ;-)

Ente