would someone give a loan?

[leen93]

Can someone recommend us an escrow? (I never used an escrow before too)

I'm generally comfortable using any of the top 8 escrow providers on this list:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0

Let's use you?  Only had good experience with you and you are the highest free escrow on the list

[leen93]

I also have some altcoins which I could give as collateral but I think it's best to start with the btc since this once is the most stable in compare to the US $

[DannyHamilton]

Can someone recommend us an escrow? (I never used an escrow before too)

I'm generally comfortable using any of the top 8 escrow providers on this list:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0

Let's use you?  Only had good experience with you and you are the highest free escrow on the list

If both parties are willing to trust me with the bitcoins, I'd be happy to hold escrow for you.  Just let me know who the other party is, exactly how many bitcoins you both agree I'll be holding, and what the conditions of escrow release will be.  Then I'll write up an escrow agreement and send it to both of you.

Important notes:

There are scammers that will create a fake escrow agreement and put their own bitcoin address in there.  Then they will send the agreement and claim that I asked them to forward a copy to you.  It is best to verify the signature (I always digitally sign all my escrow agreements), but if you don't know how to do that then ONLY accept an agreement that you receive directly from me.

There are scammers that will create a fake bitcointalk user ID that looks very similar to mine.  Then they will send an escrow agreement to both parties hoping that neither of you will notice the very slight variation in username.  Be very careful and make absolutely certain that messages you receive are actually from the person you think they are from.  Check the posting history, trust feedback, username, start date, and if possible digital signature of the person you are communicating with.

[jonald_fyookball]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

[leen93]

Hi AnonBitCoiner,
I saw you were interested in providing a loan to me.
If you are still interested let me know.
Keep in mind the loan is in $. So whatever what bitcoin does, you get back the $ + interest.
Just like a bank gives you intrest to on your $ (but much lower)
I don't care about the amount of the loan but I would like to keep it under 1500$ to start with and at least 100$.


You send bitcoins straight to me (worth X $) (after an escrow confirmed I sended bitcoins to him (worth 120% of the value)) so if I sended 6 btc you send me 5. At the end (you can choose the amount of time, 1 month, 2 month, 3 months) I'll pay you back bitcoins worth X + intrest.

OR

you provide collateral and me (20% of yours) to the escrow, I sell my bitcoins and at the end the escrow pays back the amount of bitcoins worth your original loan value + intrest and the reamining part to me and I buy back my bitcoins (sorry if it is confusing but it's exactly the same in the end)


Intrest is accumulated : (1.01)^(amount of months provided)

I think we can also say anyone can cancel this agreement at any time for a cost of 0.5%. So if you would need your money back and lended out for 3 months but after 2 months you really need it back for some urgent reason we can stop the agreement, I send you X +1% (1.5-0.5%) and the escrow releases the full amount back to me.

If in any case the bitcoin price would drop more than 20% I'll provide extra collateral to the escrow. In case I can't the agreement will be ended, I'll pay back the loan and the escrow will send the btc back to me. So no risk at all for you.

I suggest we use the escrow DannyHamilton.
Kind regards,
Leen

[leen93]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

[jonald_fyookball]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

I see.  Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to short sell.

[leen93]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

I see.  Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to short sell.

It's not really shorting on bitcoin
It's shorting the bitcoins you own, so actually selling them but if you buy them back now with dollars you are just lending out dollars.

[tmfp]

So, let me get this double clear.

In your original post you asked:

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month...

The only reason you mentioned bitcoin is because it is a cheap way of transferring $1000 to you?
It doesn't matter if the $1000 are wired to you, sent as bitcoin or delivered by helicopter, just so long as you don't pay for the cost of the transfer?
You will deposit 4 btc with escrow, returnable to you when you repay the $1000 plus interest?
If bitcoin declines in value during the course of the loan, you will keep the escrow amount topped up to a minimum of 120% i.e. $1200 equivalent?
Apart from the collateral being bitcoin, this is a dollar transaction, bitcoin only mentioned by you because it's a cheap method of transfer?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then we would be interested in lending you $1000 or more, but would want more than 1% per month.
It's late here now, unless you make other arrangements in the meantime, maybe we could continue this conversation tomorrow?

[jonald_fyookball]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

I see.  Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to short sell.

It's not really shorting on bitcoin
It's shorting the bitcoins you own, so actually selling them but if you buy them back now with dollars you are just lending out dollars.

Well, sort of yes... the person that takes this loan would be in effect spectulating on Bitcoin price dropping relative to dollars
in the next month.

[leen93]

So, let me get this double clear.

In your original post you asked:

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month...

The only reason you mentioned bitcoin is because it is a cheap way of transferring $1000 to you?
It doesn't matter if the $1000 are wired to you, sent as bitcoin or delivered by helicopter, just so long as you don't pay for the cost of the transfer?
You will deposit 4 btc with escrow, returnable to you when you repay the $1000 plus interest?
If bitcoin declines in value during the course of the loan, you will keep the escrow amount topped up to a minimum of 120% i.e. $1200 equivalent?
Apart from the collateral being bitcoin, this is a dollar transaction, bitcoin only mentioned by you because it's a cheap method of transfer?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then we would be interested in lending you $1000 or more, but would want more than 1% per month.
It's late here now, unless you make other arrangements in the meantime, maybe we could continue this conversation tomorrow?

It's late here too the question is yes to all those answers but I can't give you more than 1% a month, this is high concerning the fact you are free of risk.

[leen93]

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

I see.  Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to short sell.

It's not really shorting on bitcoin
It's shorting the bitcoins you own, so actually selling them but if you buy them back now with dollars you are just lending out dollars.

Well, sort of yes... the person that takes this loan would be in effect spectulating on Bitcoin price dropping relative to dollars
in the next month.

yes, but if you keep your dollars at the bank you do the same
if a US citizen keeps dollars in his bank account, he's speculating the gold price, Romanian stocks, corn, oil, the bitcoin, the Euro, the Korean won or whatever will go down in compare to the dollar. This is exactly the same but I don't call it shorting bitcoin... You just have to get rid of the idea of bitcoin at all. It's only a matter of payment in this case, nothing more, nothing less... I think I tried my best enough to explain this to you. This is just a dollar loan, if you send me the bticoins you own now and the bitcoin price rises you get less than when you just kept your bitcoins, but when you buy bitcoins with dollars right now and lend them to me, whatever the bitcoin price does you'll get more than if you just kept your usd in your wallet or in your bank account. That's all what it's about. Please you are a Sr. member, you should be able to understand this...

[jonald_fyookball]

it is what it is. a loan of bitcoins, to be repaid in bitcoins , but demoninated in dollars.

[AnonBitCoiner]

Hi AnonBitCoiner,
I saw you were interested in providing a loan to me.
If you are still interested let me know.
Keep in mind the loan is in $. So whatever what bitcoin does, you get back the $ + interest.
Just like a bank gives you intrest to on your $ (but much lower)
I don't care about the amount of the loan but I would like to keep it under 1500$ to start with and at least 100$.


You send bitcoins straight to me (worth X $) (after an escrow confirmed I sended bitcoins to him (worth 120% of the value)) so if I sended 6 btc you send me 5. At the end (you can choose the amount of time, 1 month, 2 month, 3 months) I'll pay you back bitcoins worth X + intrest.

OR

you provide collateral and me (20% of yours) to the escrow, I sell my bitcoins and at the end the escrow pays back the amount of bitcoins worth your original loan value + intrest and the reamining part to me and I buy back my bitcoins (sorry if it is confusing but it's exactly the same in the end)


Intrest is accumulated : (1.01)^(amount of months provided)

I think we can also say anyone can cancel this agreement at any time for a cost of 0.5%. So if you would need your money back and lended out for 3 months but after 2 months you really need it back for some urgent reason we can stop the agreement, I send you X +1% (1.5-0.5%) and the escrow releases the full amount back to me.

If in any case the bitcoin price would drop more than 20% I'll provide extra collateral to the escrow. In case I can't the agreement will be ended, I'll pay back the loan and the escrow will send the btc back to me. So no risk at all for you.

I suggest we use the escrow DannyHamilton.
Kind regards,
Leen

I'd be willing to escrow it; I've never done any of these kind of transactions before, so forgive me if I ask some questions. It says the loan is in $; but looking at the other posts, I'm still somewhat confused (sleep deprivation doesn't sit well with me); would I be giving the loan in BTC or USD? I can see that DannyHamilton is trustworthy, and he sent me a PM too regarding the loan, so I'd be willing to use his escrow service if we go through with it.

[John (John K.)]

My not-so TL;DR take on this: Loan is in USD. (BTC/wire transfer etc is just the way to transfer the $1000, doesn't matter which one here) Collateral is 120% of the $1000's current USD value. (to be tweaked depending on the exchange rate fluctuations)  I'd say that this is a fairly common collateralized loaning arrangement, where the loaner has a slight risk of BTC tanking sharply at a short amount of time, but it would generally work out fine. As for the 1% per month, the percentage is quite low given the circumstances (escrow fee factored?) , but that's obviously up to the free market to decide.  I've done a few loans with this kind of arrangement (collaterized with shares/BTC/ even once a physical Casascius BTC), and I'd say that the risks for all parties are pretty low. 

[leen93]

Hi AnonBitCoiner,
I saw you were interested in providing a loan to me.
If you are still interested let me know.
Keep in mind the loan is in $. So whatever what bitcoin does, you get back the $ + interest.
Just like a bank gives you intrest to on your $ (but much lower)
I don't care about the amount of the loan but I would like to keep it under 1500$ to start with and at least 100$.


You send bitcoins straight to me (worth X $) (after an escrow confirmed I sended bitcoins to him (worth 120% of the value)) so if I sended 6 btc you send me 5. At the end (you can choose the amount of time, 1 month, 2 month, 3 months) I'll pay you back bitcoins worth X + intrest.

OR

you provide collateral and me (20% of yours) to the escrow, I sell my bitcoins and at the end the escrow pays back the amount of bitcoins worth your original loan value + intrest and the reamining part to me and I buy back my bitcoins (sorry if it is confusing but it's exactly the same in the end)


Intrest is accumulated : (1.01)^(amount of months provided)

I think we can also say anyone can cancel this agreement at any time for a cost of 0.5%. So if you would need your money back and lended out for 3 months but after 2 months you really need it back for some urgent reason we can stop the agreement, I send you X +1% (1.5-0.5%) and the escrow releases the full amount back to me.

If in any case the bitcoin price would drop more than 20% I'll provide extra collateral to the escrow. In case I can't the agreement will be ended, I'll pay back the loan and the escrow will send the btc back to me. So no risk at all for you.

I suggest we use the escrow DannyHamilton.
Kind regards,
Leen

I'd be willing to escrow it; I've never done any of these kind of transactions before, so forgive me if I ask some questions. It says the loan is in $; but looking at the other posts, I'm still somewhat confused (sleep deprivation doesn't sit well with me); would I be giving the loan in BTC or USD? I can see that DannyHamilton is trustworthy, and he sent me a PM too regarding the loan, so I'd be willing to use his escrow service if we go through with it.

The loan is in dollars
so if u want to be sure of your profit, buy btc with your dollars now, send them to me (with escrow) and i sell them. btc is just a way of transferring, u get back the usd + intrest (but paid in bitcoin)

[jonald_fyookball]

whats the latest offer for how much interest you're paying?

[leen93]

whats the latest offer for how much interest you're paying?

1% a month, nothing more, nothing less, will never offer more
from 1 till 6 months
cancelling can be done all the time for 0.5% (then I pay back the loan + intrest so far within 24 hours)

read the full topic and it will be clear

[Quickseller]

I can do this (if the loan is still needed - this is unclear) however you would need to raise the amount of interest you would be paying and agree to a clause that the amount you will repay (in terms of bitcoin) will not be below a certain amount (TBD).

You can either post here or PM me to negotiate details, and then we can arrange escrow to be setup.

[leen93]

I can do this (if the loan is still needed - this is unclear) however you would need to raise the amount of interest you would be paying and agree to a clause that the amount you will repay (in terms of bitcoin) will not be below a certain amount (TBD).

You can either post here or PM me to negotiate details, and then we can arrange escrow to be setup.

still needed indeed, but can't pay more than 1% (so people, don't ask anymore, told this more than enough), and no, i'm not interested in betting on the btc price (I don't care wath it is), i'm not paying anything if it goes up. I agree paying more to the escrow if bitcoin goes down for your safety. But you cancel at any time if you find the bitcoin price is going up too much you just ask to get repaid...
But i suggest just buying new bitcoins with $ and lending those out (then i sell them), then you are sure of your profit.