Is Bitcoin good enough; there aren't critically important improvements needed?

[jonald_fyookball]

good points Franky, but to be fair to the OP, that is what the poll is asking:
would you switch to another coin?  I voted no.

[franky1]

good points Franky, but to be fair to the OP, that is what the poll is asking:
would you switch to another coin?  I voted no.

i voted no too

[cryptogeeknext]

Unun,

Absolute freedom exists only in the way you choose to relate to things, but not in the realm of things themselves. You will always find a constraint if you want to, and you can always choose to not be happy about it, or on the contrary, choose to see how it can benefit you.

The way current governments seem evil is because they are not the top players, the banks are. What you're suggesting is a completely totalitarian utopia, because without governments big businesses will be taking their place. Big businesses will have private armies, they will own a lot of land, they will acquire media companies.

But as I mentioned in my previous post, all businesses are totalitarian in nature, people get orders from above, they get thrown out if they disobey. Competition will make sure that small companies join together to form bigger and bigger businesses to survive, until the market saturates and all the land and resources are privatized.
 
Small individual entrepreneurs will have no chance of staying afloat, and will have no freedom whatsoever. They will either be bought out to bow under the same chain of command or thrown out of their land because some private armies will come knocking their door.

If that's what anonymous transactions is going to bring, I would rather stay away.
It was nice talking to you, I have some stuff to attend, so I'm signing out for now.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

good points Franky, but to be fair to the OP, that is what the poll is asking:
would you switch to another coin?  I voted no.

i voted no too

Good riddence. You continue to post off topic nonsense. For example (and there are many more), without on chain anonymity it is impossible to have robust untraceability and unlinkability no matter what anonymity techniques you do off chain. That you don't understand this, shows you are not technically qualified to blabber (which we already proved in the thread linked from the OP), but yet you do foam at the mouth any way with lies such as "you changed the title thus you are moving closer to my position". Liar. I changed the title because I realized it was possible to achieve the same level of pool centralization we have now within the proposed anonymity paradigm. Typical ignorant politician, all you know how to do is lie and fool the constituents. You lack technical ability.

franky1 I wouldn't want an idiot like you any where near me. I am thus grateful you voted 'no'. Do I need to say it more clearly? You are a Dunning-Kruger blabber mouth dolt who lies and debates disingenuously.

The reason the dark coins have failed (if they have) is because they suck. I don't write software that sucks. We can start with the fact that they don't solve any use case (neither does Bitcoin but it did solve the delusion use case and was first). They don't make transactions faster. They have block chain bloat (Monero) or they are subject to Sybil attack on master nodes (DarkCoin).

I (as AnonyMint) have long ago stated that from a marketing perspective anonymity alone was not a sufficient use case for a crypto-currency.

What you haven't realized is that I proposed a use case that could skyrocket the demand for an anonymous coin. And it is good you failed to realize this. Carry on ignoramus. Nothing for you here.

[jonald_fyookball]

good points Franky, but to be fair to the OP, that is what the poll is asking:
would you switch to another coin?  I voted no.

i voted no too

Good riddence. You continue to post off topic nonsense. Without on chain anonymity it is impossible to have untraceability and unlinkability no matter what anonymity techniques you do off chain. That you don't understand this, shows you are not technically qualified to blabber (which we already proved in the thread linked from the OP), but yet you do foam at the mouth any way with lies such as "you changed the title thus you are moving closer to my position". Liar. I changed the title because I realized it was possible to achieve the same level of pool centralization we have now within the proposed anonymity paradigm. Typical ignorant politician, all you know how to do is lie and fool the constituents. You lack technical ability.

lmao.  i never said anything about changing the title.
dont even know what youre talking about.

i was actually somewhat defending your freedom of
expression from Franky's critcism, but all you can see is
conflict/negativity/attack...so...yeah.

Don't see what your ad hominem attacks against me
have to do with anything. 

Don't really know if your intentions are FUD or to improve
cryptocurrency, but you seem live in a world where everything is "win/lose"
whereas I prefer to see things mostly as "win/win" whenever
possible. 

Have a nice evening.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

lmao.  i never said anything about changing the title.
dont even know what youre talking about.

My prior post wasn't directed at you. You've been quite reasonable.

[jonald_fyookball]

oops lol ok

[franky1]

good points Franky, but to be fair to the OP, that is what the poll is asking:
would you switch to another coin?  I voted no.

i voted no too

Good riddence. You continue to post off topic nonsense. Without on chain anonymity it is impossible to have untraceability and unlinkability no matter what anonymity techniques you do off chain. That you don't understand this, shows you are not technically qualified to blabber (which we already proved in the thread linked from the OP), but yet you do foam at the mouth any way with lies such as "you changed the title thus you are moving closer to my position". Liar. I changed the title because I realized it was possible to achieve the same level of pool centralization we have now within the proposed anonymity paradigm. Typical ignorant politician, all you know how to do is lie and fool the constituents. You lack technical ability.

franky1 I wouldn't want an idiot like you any where near me. I am thus grateful you voted 'no'.

my words were " so you are atleast moving slowly to see this." not 'closer to my position' so thats you lying by editing my own words to suit you.
but you do admit you changed your mind, thus atleast moving slowly to see this...

secondly..
where in the blockchain does it contain your home address, or anyones home address,
where in the blockchain does it contain your real name, or anyones real name,
bla bla bla
.. answer, no where.
bitcoin is pseudonymous in the sense that it never asks for personal identifiable information

the weakest point is not the ledger, its the human. even with dark coin and other practices of altcoins. if someone was to reveal their donation address, there are ways and methods to link it together.

for instance.
if you put funds into one address, mix it around through dark coin. deposit it into coinjoin, then move it to an exchange, swap it with litecoin, move the litecoin to another exchange and swap it back again.. YOU CAN STILL GET TRACED! if the government deemed you worthy of wasting their time on.

thus bitcoin cannot and should not concentrate on anonymizing data if humans cannot even protect themselves. its a fools errend.

bitcoin just needs to protect the ledger.. that is it.. again no matter what code you can ever think of adding to the bitcoin protocol to mask any believed traceability. those that truly want to find you and your funds, WILL find a way. as such with paper wallets or cascasius coins, which are off-chain(no logs), no protocol(passed hand-to-hand), no traceability, etc.. deemed as the perfect anonymous way to use bitcoins.. yet how many people have bank notes, gold coins and other physical assets seized.

yet,

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

What you're suggesting is a completely totalitarian utopia, because without governments big businesses will be taking their place. Big businesses will have private armies, they will own a lot of land, they will acquire media companies.

But as I mentioned in my previous post, all businesses are totalitarian in nature, people get orders from above, they get thrown out if they disobey. Competition will make sure that small companies join together to form bigger and bigger businesses to survive, until the market saturates and all the land and resources are privatized.
 
Small individual entrepreneurs will have no chance of staying afloat, and will have no freedom whatsoever. They will either be bought out to bow under the same chain of command or thrown out of their land because some private armies will come knocking their door.

Totally false and opposite of reality.

You don't understand the Knowledge Age.

Your mind is still suck in the worthless dinosaur paradigm of the resource scarcity Industrial Age.

[jonald_fyookball]

even if Bitcoin could become totally anonymous, not even sure that's a good strategy.
OP seems concerened about governments etc... total anonymity would much more
confrontational than the partial anonymity...I say, let the regulators regulate
the exchanges with KYC,AML, etc... while Bitcoin grows toward adoption.
Maybe some disagree...but if we cannot even agree on the strategy,
obviously we cannot agree on tactics.  

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

franky1,

Given your reply it is clear you don't even know the technical meaning of the terms untraceability and unlinkability. Try reading the Cryptonote whitepaper and educating yourself before you blabber more nonsense.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

jonald_fyookball,

Not confronting the government has never stopped them from extracting every ounce of power, tribute, and servitude they can get.

Partial anonymity is an oxymoron.

There has always been a war between the individual and the State. Before we had cash which was anonymous. Next if don't have anonymity because cash is replaced with non-anonymous Bitcoin, the human race is fucked.

I understand you may have a different opinion. That is why this is a poll, not a sermon.

[franky1]

cash(bank notes) are not anonymous. they are just peices of paper that never ask for human identifiable information.
neither does bitcoin......

and i have now read the cryptocoin jargon and i can already see 5 ways to trace people.

again no matter what you try to do with the protocol, it wont make it unlinkable/untraceable in regards to a governments efforts to seize your funds or your freedoms.

no matter if you swap coins between 2 different altcoins or 200, whether each altcoin promotes itself as having extra features or not. i guarantee you that there are atleast 5 ways the government can find you.

bank notes cant even protect you, and that have no traceability/linkability requirement of human identity...

cant you see the bigger picture of the reality we live in.. only humans can be the deciding factor of how,if or when thy get traced. no code, no software tool, no computer based thing will ever be 100%.

again only humans can be the deciding factor of how close to 100% you can get

[Flashman]

again only humans can be the deciding factor of how close to 100% you can get

Bin Laden scored about 99.99 out of 100.

To do that, he was offline.

[jonald_fyookball]

jonald_fyookball,

Not confronting the government has never stopped them from extracting every ounce of power, tribute, and servitude they can get.
 

Yes, and "how much they can get" varies widely across space and time.  USA is not North Korea.
Governments are made of individuals.  Étienne de La Boétie's discourse still applies.

[segvec]

No thanks, I will stay with bitcoin and will never switch up ever.
BTC is where it all started...I am here for the long-haul.

[jbreher]

Unfortunately CoinJoin is jammable otherwise we could get on chain anonymity without a fork of Bitcoin's protocol.

I've not yet had a need for externally assisted anonymity. Perhaps someday I will.

Also let's not forget UDP and FTP came before adoption of TCP/IP and HTTP respectively.

I think that merely serves to strengthen my point. These relatively ancient protocols are still in widespread use,  no?

[jbreher]

Governments, on the other hand, don't task people with anything, they only tax the gain,

Ha
Hahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahhahahah

Perhaps it is so endemic that you don't even recognize it as such. Tax is one thing, what about the time you expend in filling out the interminable forms? That's not a task? Ever stand in line to get your drivers license renewed? Military conscription? ACA for any of you Americans? E-Verify? Shovel your walk within 24 hours of snowfall? Cut your weeds or answer to the council? Provide an authority approved mailbox, and don't use it for any other purpose? Send your kids to an authority approved school or be hauled in? Blow into this tube? Clear the sediment runoff out of this creek that runs across your land? Replace your toilets with low flow models? No transacting without the appropriate licenses?

Are you freaking kidding me?

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

cash(bank notes) are not anonymous.

Incorrect. There is no centralized ledger of serial numbers that tracks each exchange of cash notes.

they are just peices of paper that never ask for human identifiable information.

Correct.

neither does bitcoin......

That doesn't make Bitcoin equivalent to cash in terms of anonymity, because in Bitcoin the proof-of-ownership is not the decentralized possession of a physical evidence as it is cash, but rather being able to cryptographically sign a key which is digitally verified against a centralized public ledger (albeit decentralized consensus, there is only one, mulitiply-referenced instance of the ledger, thus centralized) which is fully traceable and linkable.

You mentioned the physical exchange of Bitcoin private keys implying these are equivalent to cash, but you failed to realize that you have no protection against a double-spend in that case because the transfer hasn't been recorded on the centralized ledger and thus the entity formerly in possession can transmit a cryptographic spend before the new entity who is possession does! Whereas cash doesn't have a double-spend threat (other than counterfeiting which affects the entire society proportionally, not disproportionately you individually), because the proof-of-ownership is being in possession of the decentralized physical note.

This is why Bitcoin can not be decentralized without anonymity.

You can blabber mouth until you are blue in the face, but you can't change that fucking reality with the drooling.

It is one of the hallmarks of Dunning-Kruger wannabes that they see some common trait between two phenomena and then proclaim the two phenomena are equivalent. As if analogy makes them smart. Sorry. No it makes it obvious they are stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.

Yeah I assumed everyone could understand the difference between decentralized cash and a centralized ledger. Now I realize I had to explain it.

and i have now read the cryptocoin jargon and i can already see 5 ways to trace people.

It is Cryptonote, not cryptocoin. You have no mathematical nor logical clue about what you blabber about. You can carry on with your erroneous UNtechnical, n00b assumptions.

We experts need to ignore people like you who are unwilling to learn.

[turvarya]

cryptogeeknext,

If anonymity requires us to give up collaboration and interaction, then we've failed to implement it properly.

For example, just because the government can't identify a transaction to tax it, doesn't mean the parties to the transaction can't know each other.

All prosperity is created in the private sector. They can still collaborate with anonymous transactions. This will be even more so as we move to the Knowledge Age economy, where for example you don't need to know the identity of the person you are collaborating with on some digital work project (programming, 3D printer designs, marketing, etc). One day those complex physical machines you mentioned will be designed collaboratively via online interaction and anyone can print any part on a 3D printer. You want a space shuttle, okay download the designs and print the parts and assemble it.

The government doesn't create any prosperity, it only takes some from one group and redistributes it to another group, and sells debt bonds to finance any short fall.

Transparency of government doesn't solve the problem that collectives consume more than they produce, because government is forced to promise what voters want to hear regardless of available resources. The government that promises less, gets voted out to replaced by the government that promises more.

Surely Europeans love all their benefits (e.g. 35 hour work weeks, 1 month paid vacations, free health care, free schooling, free natal for mothers, guaranteed retirements, inducements to stop working by age 50 or so, etc). And their governments are bankrupt because of it and will soon implode economically with great hardship on the people.

A gorgeous super intelligent female:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8EA_1YHztE (Brave the New World)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp6C4g23uYo (so you can learn about Russia)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f5gqROO2Zc (wow)

Are you one of the people who think, that France is Europe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend#Around_the_world
That is not counting overtime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age

Can't you even check wikipedia before making a statement?
That is data, that is easy to find. Your blabber about the future, but can't even see the present.

And I already stated that the USA which hasn't a welfare system is in huge debt in your other thread, so it can't be because of the welfare system, can it?
But I am sure, you are telling me, that is all communist Obamas fault.