Is Bitcoin good enough; there aren't critically important improvements needed?

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

jonald_fyookball,

Not confronting the government has never stopped them from extracting every ounce of power, tribute, and servitude they can get.
 

Yes, and "how much they can get" varies widely across space and time.  USA is not North Korea.
Governments are made of individuals.  Étienne de La Boétie's discourse still applies.

The white Caucasian Germany today is not (yet!) Nazi Germany of the 1940s. The white Asian China today is not (yet!) Mao's 57 million executed killing fields that it was. The brown Asian Cambodia today is not (yet!) Pol Pot's genocide that it was. The white Caucasian British never considered black Africans to be humans in the Boer Wars atrocities. The white Caucasian Americans have caused the genocide of at least a million innocents in the Middle East.

The list goes on and on...

Westerners are smug in their 80 years of uninterrupted peace domestically (propped up by central banks which never let the debt default and contract), but this is coming to an end and before 2020 they will be reunited with the horror of government (as the insane level of debt comes imploding down into economic destitution).

[cbeast]

There is always someplace nice in the world to live. Go there. 

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Are you one of the people who think, that France is Europe?

The Euro tied you all together in a horrific conundrum as I explained to you before, thus yes one can make the claim that France is Europe, but any way I don't need to make that claim in order to refute you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend#Around_the_world
That is not counting overtime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age

That work week data is hilariously inaccurate and sanguinely non-informational. Not very many serious career Americans nor Japanese work only 40 hours per week and are often not paid hourly so there is no "overtime".

http://wdsm710.com/news/articles/2014/may/08/end-of-oil-boom-threatens-norways-welfare-model/

"It's a bit discouraging that the sick leave in Norway is twice the level of other plants," Havdal said. "That is to me an indication that something is not as it should be."

With per capita GDP around $100,000, the Norwegian lifestyle has become such that the work week averages less than 33 hours, one of the lowest in the world, and while unemployment is low, there is large underemployment, made possible by benefits.

The retirement age data you provided is also nonsense. Consider the following detailed information.

Even this listing of benefits by country is incomplete, because for example I have a friend from Belgium and he explained to me how he was paid by the government starting from age 50 to not work and the government discourages him from working as a painter, because he has to be registered with the government for each job and location he wants to work. Otherwise it is called "black work" and he can be fined or jailed. The government has an incentive payment program to reward the people to spy on each other and report "black work".

Can't you even check wikipedia before making a statement?

Can you even learn to do fact checking before you make feeble posts?

You are young and inexperienced. That should be accompanied with humbleness and a desire to learn from people who are older and have more experience and knowledge than you do.

Please don't waste more of my scarce time with more idiotic posts.

And I already stated that the USA which hasn't a welfare system is in huge debt in your other thread, so it can't be because of the welfare system, can it?

The USA doesn't have long-term unemployment payments, Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, HUD assisted housing, 57 million on food stamps, since Obama $1 trillion annual budget deficits every year, etc.  

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

There is always someplace nice in the world to live. Go there.  

Not when anonymous decentralized cash is gone and all we have remaining is non-anonymous centralized block chain that tracks every thing we do.


I can't understand why any rational human would say it is not okay for us to experiment with anonymity?? Why would the detractors be against us trying to improve and provide other technologies which you can optionally use if you want to??

Are detractors that afraid of their Bitcoin investment that they can't tolerate freedom to innovate??

[turvarya]

Are you one of the people who think, that France is Europe?

The Euro tied you all together in a horrific conundrum as I explained to you before, thus yes one can make the claim that France is Europe, but any way I don't need to make that claim in order to refute you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend#Around_the_world
That is not counting overtime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age

That work week data is hilariously inaccurate and sanguinely non-informational. Not very many Americans nor Japanese work only 40 hours per week.

The retirement data you provided is also nonsense. Consider the following detailed information.

Even this listing of benefits by country is incomplete, because for example I have a friend from Belgium and he explained to me how he was paid by the government starting from age 50 to not work and the government discourages him from working as a painter, because he has to be registered with the government for each job and location he wants to work. Otherwise it is called "black work" and he can be fined or jailed. The government has an incentive payment program to reward the people to spy on each other and report "black work".

Can't you even check wikipedia before making a statement?

Can you even learn to do fact checking before you make feeble posts?

You are young and inexperienced. That should be accompanied with humbleness and a desire to learn from people who are older and have more experience and knowledge than you do.

Please don't waste more of my scarce time with more idiotic posts.

And I already stated that the USA which hasn't a welfare system is in huge debt in your other thread, so it can't be because of the welfare system, can it?

The USA doesn't have long-term unemployment payments, Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, HUD assisted housing, 57 million on food stamps, $1 trillion annual budget deficits every year since Obama, etc.  

I wrote, that it is not counting overtime and therefor is of course inaccurate. It is the minimum working hours.

And please don't tell me some fairy tales about how a friend told you about a friend yada yada, and call it life experience. I heard so many of such stories, which just lacked important details. There are so many stories in Austria which are circulation for years even thought they have been disproved since the beginning.
You took your retirement at 50 from that story? And you really thought someone would take that serious?

USA welfare system is a joke. Are you really telling me, it is the reason for the big US-debt?

Here have a graph, about how well you have done under Bush:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_George_W._Bush_administration#mediaviewer/File:Deficits_vs._Debt_Increases_-_2008.png

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I wrote, that it is not counting overtime and therefor is of course inaccurate. It is the minimum working hours.

And it is lying with for example the case of Belgium where people are paid to not work and discouraged from working. And it omits data on Norway, because Wikipedia doesn't want to admit it is only 33 hours. Wikipedia is often a disinformation vehicle of the powers-that-be when it comes to social issues.

And please don't tell me some fairy tales about how a friend told you about a friend yada yada,

You will not be able to refute it, because it is a fact. Belgium operates the way I have stated. There are ways to be paid for not working starting about age 50 (I know I saw the government documents and checks my friend receives) and the "black work" is very much prevented. Why don't you actually do some research so you can know what is going on in the world.

In the USA, we have long-term unemployment assistance and corrupt disability claims which achieve a similar but not as thorough result.

USA welfare system is a joke. Are you really telling me, it is the reason for the big US-debt?

$128 trillion in unfunded social welfare liabilities:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-the-deficit-is-bad-federal-unfunded-liabilities-exceed-127-trillion/

I know you Europeans think the only problem in the USA is that we are in debt because of our military. You all think we waste our deficits on the military and we don't have a glorious social welfare program as you do. Fact is Obama has been doing a good job of emulating your megadeath-directed system, as he has reduced (inflation adjusted) military budgets (which means we can't defend your ass against Russia) and still managed to run $1 trillion annual deficits with for example 57 million Americans on food stamps.

You try to argue that your social welfare systems are not bankrupting you, hahahaha. DELUSIONAL.

STFU you fool.

[turvarya]

I wrote, that it is not counting overtime and therefor is of course inaccurate. It is the minimum working hours.

And it is lying with for example the case of Belgium where people are paid to not work and discouraged from working. And it omits data on Norway, because Wikipedia doesn't want to admit it is only 33 hours. Wikipedia is often a disinformation vehicle of the powers-that-be when it comes to social issues.

And please don't tell me some fairy tales about how a friend told you about a friend yada yada,

You will not be able to refute it, because it is a fact. Belgium operates the way I have stated. There are ways to be paid for not working starting about age 50 (I know I saw the government documents and checks my friend receives) and the "black work" is very much prevented. Why don't you actually do some research so you can know what is going on in the world.

USA welfare system is a joke. Are you really telling me, it is the reason for the big US-debt?

$128 trillion in unfunded social welfare liabilities:

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-the-deficit-is-bad-federal-unfunded-liabilities-exceed-127-trillion/

I know you Europeans think the only problem in the USA is that we are in debt because of our military. You all think we waste our deficits on the military and we don't have a glorious social welfare program as you do. Fact is Obama has been doing a good job of emulating your megadeath-directed system, as he has reduced military budgets (which means we can't defend your ass against Russia) and still managed to run $1 trillion annual deficits with for example 57 million Americans on food stamps.

You try to argue that your social welfare systems are not bankrupting you, hahahaha. DELUSIONAL.

STFU you fool.

Oh, the "powers-that-be" you always like to talk about, you mean Illuminati?

It is so nice, that everything you say is just fact but you don't provide any evidence.
Show me some evidence that people in Europa are working 35 hours a week on average. Show me some evidence that people in Europe retire with 50 on average?
You saw some documents from a friend is all the evidence you got? Oh, the "powers-that-be" must really be powerful, if they can prevent you from providing some more convenient evidence.

You can't even see, that the whole US-government was fucked up, long before Obama. How brainwashed can a person be?

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I kindly request that the same detractors please stop posting for a while so we can hear from some others. You've had your opportunity to make your points. You don't get to continue ad nausea. If you don't comply, I will close the thread, because I don't want to waste all my time here in this thread arguing with the same 3 guys. This thread is a marketing survey and I need to hear from as many people as possible.

This is obnoxious, tiring, and wasteful.

If you need to rebutt, please try to make it two or three sentences, then I will let you have the last word on our debate.

Oh, the "powers-that-be" you always like to talk about, you mean Illuminati?

It is so nice, that everything you say is just fact but you don't provide any evidence.

Compare the true story:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9666280#msg9666280

To the Wikipedia version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martin_A._Armstrong&oldid=630836560

Show me some evidence that people in Europa are working 35 hours a week on average. Show me some evidence that people in Europe retire with 50 on average?

The fact is that Europe's debts exceed its income by a horrific margin. So Europeans aren't working enough and are taking too many benefits.

Arguing over pedantic semantics about data won't change that undeniable fact.

You can't even see, that the whole US-government was fucked up, long before Obama. How brainwashed can a person be?

I never claimed the USA wasn't fucked up before Obama. Socialism has been growing in the USA since at least FDR's New Deal in the 1930s.

Europe is also royally fucked up too by socialism. I know you think it is all the hydra of the US military killing machine that is the main problem in the world today. Europeans have been indoctrinated to believe that and ignore their own horrific bankruptcy.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Unfortunately CoinJoin is jammable otherwise we could get on chain anonymity without a fork of Bitcoin's protocol.

I've not yet had a need for externally assisted anonymity. Perhaps someday I will.

The governments haven't really started confiscating yet but they are planning to[1][2].

Also let's not forget UDP and FTP came before adoption of TCP/IP and HTTP respectively.

I think that merely serves to strengthen my point. These relatively ancient protocols are still in widespread use,  no?

My mea culpa upthread was to acknowledge that Bitcoin has virtues and will continue.

I am not positing a total annihilation of Bitcoin by an anonymous protocol coin. Rather in this poll I am asking if there is any interest in such experimentation.

They would not want to move very fast on regulation, because they want all of you to remain deluded for as long as possible, and so will act only when it is time to take all your wealth (when the shit hits the fan global collapse ensues[1]).

[1]	http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/12/01/the-government-know-sovereign-debt-defaults-are-coming/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/12/01/changing-bankruptcy-laws-for-banks/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/12/02/can-money-just-be-devalued-creating-deflation-as-a-solution/

[2]

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/25/electric-money-will-eliminate-bank-runs/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/04/electronic-money-taxes/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2012/06/27/reality-check/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/17/the-downside-of-electronic-money-what-is-left/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/17/negative-interest-rates-eliminating-cash-the-summers-solution/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/14/the-secret-agenda/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/24/electronic-money-coming-everywhere-sooner-than-you-think/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/18/g8-going-to-hunt-down-all-capital/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/02/07/g20-to-cordinate-to-hunt-down-taxes-worldwide/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/09/07/g20-agrees-on-worldwide-access-to-all-information-on-the-wealth-of-the-citizens-for-global-taxation/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/11/16/g20-to-change-status-of-bank-accounts-investments/ http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/11/16/the-truth-about-g20-banking-directive/

[turvarya]

I kindly request that the same detractors please stop posting for a while so we can hear from some others. You've had your opportunity to make your points. You don't get to continue ad nausea. If you don't comply, I will close the thread, because I don't want to waste all my time here in this thread arguing with the same 3 guys. This thread is a marketing survey and I need to hear from as many people as possible.

This is obnoxious, tiring, and wasteful.

If you need to rebutt, please try to make it two or three sentences, then I will let you have the last word on our debate.

Oh, the "powers-that-be" you always like to talk about, you mean Illuminati?

It is so nice, that everything you say is just fact but you don't provide any evidence.

Compare the true story:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg9666280#msg9666280

To the Wikipedia version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martin_A._Armstrong&oldid=630836560

Show me some evidence that people in Europa are working 35 hours a week on average. Show me some evidence that people in Europe retire with 50 on average?

The fact is that Europe's debts exceed its income by a horrific margin. So Europeans aren't working enough and are taking too many benefits.

Arguing over pedantic semantics about data won't change that undeniable fact.

You can't even see, that the whole US-government was fucked up, long before Obama. How brainwashed can a person be?

I never claimed the USA wasn't fucked up before Obama. Socialism has been growing in the USA since at least FDR's New Deal in the 1930s.

Europe is also royally fucked up too by socialism. I know you think it is all the hydra of the US military killing machine that is the main problem in the world today. Europeans have been indoctrinated to believe that and ignore their own horrific bankruptcy.

I don't really want to defend Wikipedia, it has enough flaws. But when you say, Wikipedia is wrong in a specific case, you should at least provide some source. I really hate how people always say, that some information somewhere is wrong, but their only source is a fairy tale.

The problem with governments is, that they spend more than they earn. I think most people would agree with that, but blaming it on socialism is just wrong. In Austria we have to pay some billions for a bank that got bankrupt, because some politicians made some shady deals with it. That is the most recent event, that really hurts our national debts. That example has nothing to do, with socialism, not the slightest.
The subprime mortgage crisis which hit most countries in the world pretty hard, had nothing to do with socialism.
The tax cuts George W. Bush made which increased the US-debt significantly had nothing to do with socialism.

Show me the countries, that don't have a welfare system and which are doing so fine, like you said.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I will reply one more time. You are really naive and uninformed.

Note Austria may be one of the more conservative and better countries in Europe.

That example has nothing to do, with socialism, not the slightest.
The subprime mortgage crisis which hit most countries in the world pretty hard, had nothing to do with socialism.
The tax cuts George W. Bush made which increased the US-debt significantly had nothing to do with socialism.

Oh little grasshopper, I can never teach you to understand political economics. You will always rather choose to believe they are unrelated events, because you love social welfare. That link explains that promising the constituents benefits is intimately connected to regulatory capture of the government. Until you understand that, you will remain ignorant of how the world operates. You choose not to view the model of political economics systemically and instead want to cordone off events as uncorrelated, because you are irrational and love social welfare.

Btw, the guy who wrote that is Eric S. Raymond, the progenitor of the term "open source" in his famous The Art of Unix and The Cathedral and the Bazaar books. His IQ is self-reported to be in the 150 - 170 range. Read his blog for a while and you will conclude he is that smart.

Show me the countries, that don't have a welfare system and which are doing so fine, like you said.

Philippines which has been the fastest growing economy in the world. The USA in the 1800s and early 1900s being the fastest growing and most personal freedom economy in the world at that time (before it became laden with government spending on welfare starting with FDR's New Deal).



In fact, government spending as a percent of GDP is roughly inversely correlated with GDP growth rate over long enough timescales.

TADA.  

[cbeast]

There is always someplace nice in the world to live. Go there.  

Not when anonymous decentralized cash is gone and all we have remaining is non-anonymous centralized block chain that tracks every thing we do.


I can't understand why any rational human would say it is not okay for us to experiment with anonymity?? Why would the detractors be against us trying to improve and provide other technologies which you can optionally use if you want to??

Are detractors that afraid of their Bitcoin investment that they can't tolerate freedom to innovate??

So? You think they will implant our brains with zombie chips and turn us into automatons? I was against anonymity at first, but I reversed my position in light of the surveillance technologies. Anonymous money will be the only privacy we'll have left. Cameras are the technology to fear, not money.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Any reader who can't comprehend the following, thus does not understand how democracy really operates.

esr on 2009-05-27 at 19:21:38 said:

>How depressing. This makes it sound as though this is an unsolvable, inherent aspect of democracy.

Yeah, well, welcome to reason 43b why I’m an anarchist.

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984

Some Iron Laws of Political Economics
Posted on 2009-05-27 by Eric Raymond

Mancur Olson, in his book The Logic Of Collective Action, highlighted the central problem of politics in a democracy. The benefits of political market-rigging can be concentrated to benefit particular special interest groups, while the costs (in higher taxes, slower economic growth, and many other second-order effects) are diffused through the entire population.

The result is a scramble in which individual interest groups perpetually seek to corner more and more rent from the system, while the incremental costs of this behavior rise slowly enough that it is difficult to sustain broad political opposition to the overall system of political privilege and rent-seeking.

When you add to Olson’s model the fact that the professional political class is itself a special interest group which collects concentrated benefits from encouraging rent-seeking behavior in others, it becomes clear why, as Olson pointed out, “good government” is a public good subject to exactly the same underproduction problems as other public goods. Furthermore, as democracies evolve, government activity that might produce “good government” tends to be crowded out by coalitions of rent-seekers and their tribunes.

This general model has consequences. Here are some of them:

There is no form of market failure, however egregious, which is not eventually made worse by the political interventions intended to fix it.

Political demand for income transfers, entitlements and subsidies always rises faster than the economy can generate increased wealth to supply them from.

Although some taxes genuinely begin by being levied for the benefit of the taxed, all taxes end up being levied for the benefit of the political class.

The equilibrium state of a regulatory agency is to have been captured by the entities it is supposed to regulate.

The probability that the actual effects of a political agency or program will bear any relationship to the intentions under which it was designed falls exponentially with the amount of time since it was founded.

The only important class distinction in any advanced democracy is between those who are net producers of tax revenues and those who are net consumers of them.

Corruption is not the exceptional condition of politics, it is the normal one.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I need to take a break from posting in this thread.

I haven't gotten any work done since we started these debates  few days ago.

The poll indicates 25 - 30% of the readers are interested in an anonymity improvement.

Thus I already accomplished what I needed to do in order to hopefully motivate that outcome.

Feel free to post away in this thread. I might come back after some days and provide any summary response I think would be useful. Otherwise take all my prior posts to be a statement of my position on all future rebuttals.

[turvarya]

I now get your fundamental error in thinking:
You think every government spending is welfare.

I know the concept which is described by Eric S Raymond. Believe it or not, but I actually studied some Economics(not the major part of my studies).

Looking at the USA in the early 1900s and comparing it to today and all you can see in the history in between is that the USA got to much socialistic, is really the kind of ignorance, which makes your argument so implausible. Seriously, how many wars have you fought in the mean time? How many laws have you passed that had nothing to do with socialism are even the opposite?
I don't know much about the Philippines(I was there 3 years ago for some days but it didn't seem much developed to me), maybe I will look into it, later.

[bitllionaire]

it is clear that some improvementes are needed, but you can't change a billion dollars netword without taking the appropiate time to make sure the changes and evaluate the risks

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I am back because I happen to read this from the guy who created libbitcoin, Electrum, etc:

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/17005/bitcoin-technology-worth-nothing-interview-dark-wallet-front-man-amir-taaki/

turvarya,

You still don't comprehend what Eric S Raymond wrote, because you are still trying to assert that certain rent-seekers (e.g. the military industrial complex) are excluded from the model of regulatory capture that Eric S Raymond laid out. He wrote that the costs of the capture accrue on society too slowly for the constituents to recognize and rise up against politically. He also failed to mention that the constituents have many competing political wants and thus are easily divided-and-conquered (gay marriage, social welfare debates, level of military spending, etc) by the politicians in cahoots with the rent-seekers. So the family of military soldiers wants more military spending, community with a military base economy wants more military spending, old person wants more pensions, the younger person more education subsidies, the pregnant person more free maternal subsidies, feminists want more subsidies for women, etc.. You all fighting over finite resources that have been collectivized (ahem stolen a.k.a. expropriated) via tax collection. The only way to make you all happy is promise you all more than exists and borrow via debt. So then you think the regulatory capture of the government by banks is not caused by democracy! Amazing myopia you have. And so what happens when the bubble pops and the promises are broken? WAR. GENOCIDE. MEGADEATH. It is coming.

Read Amir. You are just a slave to the system (a.k.a. "the man").

P.S. you don't have the IQ to find a fault in my thought process. I am thinking on an unifying abstraction level while you are fiddling with what you think are uncorrelated cases or categories. Seriously man, the audacity you have. You don't recognize your intellectual limitations.

[Shrikez]

Anonymint...I like reading you, you have provided me with a lot of insight and new ideas and every time you're back from a hiatus I'm happy there will be interesting stuff to read.

No need to be such a snobby cunt to people though, don't you think? This is no way to capture an audience, a feat you're obviously interested in else you wouldn't post.

Back to lurking.

[jonald_fyookball]

P.S. you don't have the IQ to find a fault in my thought process. I am thinking on an unifying abstraction level while you are fiddling with what you think are uncorrelated cases or categories. Seriously man, the audacity you have. You don't recognize your intellectual limitations.

sorry but I just had to LOL at this....  I don't often get to see
this kind of overt intellectual pomposity: "I AM the smartest guy in the room."

 

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

I now get your fundamental error in thinking:

Who is the snobby cunt? The Dunning-Kruger idiot who asserts that I have a fundamental error in my thinking.

P.S. you don't have the IQ to find a fault in my thought process. I am thinking on an unifying abstraction level while you are fiddling with what you think are uncorrelated cases or categories. Seriously man, the audacity you have. You don't recognize your intellectual limitations.

sorry but I just had to LOL at this....  I don't often get to see
this kind of overt intellectual pomposity: "I AM the smartest guy in the room."

 

Most very intelligent people simply don't talk to the Dunning-Kruger idiots and don't try to interface with them, because it is so tiring and frustrating.

Do you see that core developer gmaxell almost never posts in this n00bs sub-forums. He is not going to waste his time talking to people who can't comprehend and require him to explain the same damn thing 100 different ways.

So if I am gone again, you know why.