Bitcoin defeating fiat is very unlikely

[spooderman]

Bitcoin will defeat fiat in all the areas fiat can't compete. Given its simplicity, there are lots of these.

[jonald_fyookball]

The OP's argument is that regulation will kill Bitcoin.
I disagree for three reasons.

1.  In the long run, regulation is irrelevant.

Which sounds like a better idea?  Money issued and controlled by
central authorities, or money issued by an open source protocol,
and controlled by everyone?

I know which one I prefer.  Good ideas eventually prevail,
and a protocol cannot be stopped.

2.  There's two sides to the regulation patchwork effect.
Sure, there is some dissonance, but there is also competition,
and local and national governments not wanting to lose out.

3. The regulatory response to Bitcoin has generally been
amazingly positive so far, so even in the short term,
I don't see it slowing down Bitcoin much, if at all.
And some regulation may even be positive.

[RodeoX]

I agree. I can't see btc completely replacing fiat. Not that anyone serious thought so anyway.

Bitcoin will defeat fiat in all the areas fiat can't compete. Given its simplicity, there are lots of these.

That's more realistic.

[Lauda]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

There we go. I agree with his opinion.


This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

A strong counter point is that Bitcoin can be sometimes anonymous for the diligent  (i.e. not practical for most people, mostly for criminals), while some governments may view Bitcoin as less of a threat than a more overtly anonymous cryptocurrency.

Unlike using cash, employing anonymity in Bitcoin will very likely become synonymous with being a criminal.

The government could likely remove that impractical, rogue anonymity option in the future by regulating the miners and forcing them to only include transactions that come from an online wallet provider which does KYC. They would be wise not to do this until the masses have become accustomed to thinking of Bitcoin as something in their Paypal or Coinbase account, and those who use non-KYC wallets will have likely become the much smaller minority.

Government can co-exist with anonymity because people willingly give their consent to reveal and participate in an ordered society rather than complete chaos. The distinction is the people are in control and accede their consent. If you take away this balance-of-power (remove all escape routes, black markets, and frontiers), what you end up with is totalitarianism and megadeath (every single damn time, there is nothing ambiguous or dubious).

I believe that black swan is the fact that the economy is shifting from brick & mortar to virtual work and services. Into the dark we go, so that We The People grant our consent to be governed.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Defeating fiat is like a whack-a-mole game. Fiat has lost many times in various countries over centuries, but it's still here. When fiat finally caves under the burden of its own issues, overdebtedness of the economy, etc., there will be a reset to another form of fiat, crypto currencies can gain a bigger market share as people lose confidence in fiat, but defeating it completely is unlikely, even if Bitcoin didn't have the flaws it has, it's still unlikely.

Fiat hasn't existed for thousands of years.

The Chinese tried unbacked paper currency = fiat many centuries ago, long before Europeans did. They pretty much invented this concept. It could be just a thousand years, not thousands, still it's a widely known concept to them.

Thanks for writing what I would have. Correct.

Also gold when it was a legal tender coin currency was always a fiat, because of Gresham's Law and the power inherent with seigniorage.

[johnyj]

They don't overlap

Fiat money is forced into circulation by pumping to the bank system and loan out to government to drive various projects, then handed out as state employee's salary. The purpose of fiat money is to spend it as quick as possible since they drop in value over time

Bitcoin is entering circulation by volunteer, typically after a long time of saving and appreciation, and start to trickle in to the economy at a small percentage per year, and once it reaches the merchant/buyer, it will most likely be stored again for another several years. The purpose of bitcoin is to spend as slow as possible since they increase in value over time

[leopard2]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon 

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon 

No fool. The dollar will become stronger because it is the most liquid and the rest of the world is short dollars given massive borrowings in dollars due to QE.

[franky1]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon  

No fool. The dollar will become stronger because it is the most liquid and the rest of the world is short dollars given massive borrowings in dollars due to QE.

your the fool..

you do realise america is in debt.. you do realise america owes this debt to china right., (look into the bonds!!! china owns USA) and with china joining brics. it will be the brics that becomes dominent, not dollar..

the amount of brics based banks vs the amount of amero based banks is easy enough to see..

come on even if we look at the population numbers
amero: 0.481billion (canada 0.035bill, america 0.322bill, mexico 0.124bill)
brics: 3.058 billion (brazil 0.202bill, russia 0.142bill, india 1.267bill, china 1.394bill, s'africa 0.053bill)

think of the land mass and property ownership. brics wins again
think about the import vs export trades. brics wins again

america wont stand a chance. and bitcoin will have opportunities once people start seeing the shift in power and growth of the brics and the weakening of the dollar.

Bitcoin will very likely become synonymous with being a criminal.

that WAS the mindset of 2009-2012.. not 2014+

OP you seem to be worried about bitcoin/anonimity/government tooooooo much..

watch the first 15 minutes of this video
http://bravenewcoin.com/news/andreas-antonopoulos-at-bitcoinsouth-money-as-a-content-type/

and allow andreas to explain to you why worrying about government rules or attempts to control are futile. and the multiple ways to hide where the funds came from in the world and went to in the world.

no law can stop bitcoin, it can only scare people (well sheeple that dont quite get bitcoin, and fear governments)

[desired_username]

The fiat system will die by itself sooner or later (depends only on the ratio of idiots in our society). It's fundamentally flawed and kept running purely by violence = unsustainable.

[Este Nuno]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

There we go. I agree with his opinion.


This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

It is Anonymint.

[Lauda]

This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

It is Anonymint.

How can you be sure? 

[BitmoreCoin]

Regulation of BTC exchanges is very important for the success of BTC.

[Este Nuno]

This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

It is Anonymint.

How can you be sure? 

He's had to make new accounts because the Anonymint account was made inaccessible on purpose.

[ChuckBuck]

I don't think Bitcoin has to defeat fiat, it's truly an alternative means to pay, store and transact money.

It can work side by side with fiat, like a Western Union/Paypal/Internet Gold hybrid of sorts.

It's when fiat meets it's timely demise in the near future, where Crypto will reign supreme over fiat.

'Tis the early days, fellow BTC brethren.

[Beliathon]

The logic:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884154.msg9753233#msg9753233

Did you REALLY just start a new threat linking to a post from another thread, without so much as adding anything to it?

[leopard2]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon 

No fool. The dollar will become stronger because it is the most liquid and the rest of the world is short dollars given massive borrowings in dollars due to QE.

The Euro and the USD is like two people jumping from a skyscraper, at the moment USD is ahead, before that EUR was ahead, but in the end all fiat currencies will approximate their inner value, which is zero.

If people would not be threatened with violence by the government, that would have happened a long time ago. Do you really believe Germans would use the Euro if they could use anything? Such as a gold backed currency issued by Swiss banks, maybe?

The USD is not strong, the others are even weaker. The ECB has indicated that they will print EURO even more radically than the USA - and there is not much else to turn to. AUD is too small, JPY is even worse than EUR, CHF is bound to the EUR

USD IS STRONG DUE TO LACK OF ALTERNATIVES!

[jonald_fyookball]

This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

It is Anonymint.

How can you be sure? 

He said so in another thread.

[malaimult]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon 

I don't think the stock market crash of 2008 had so much to do with Bitcoin's success, but rather the overall economic crisis that included a banking crisis. People generally did not trust banks and needed an alternative place to store their money