Bitcoin defeating fiat is very unlikely

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

The logic:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884154.msg9753233#msg9753233

Did you REALLY just start a new threat linking to a post from another thread, without so much as adding anything to it?

Because the moderator moved that thread from the Bitcoin Discussion to Politics and Society subforum. And I felt the discussion was more pertinent to Bitcoin.

[fulcare]

Defeating fiat is like a whack-a-mole game. Fiat has lost many times in various countries over centuries, but it's still here. When fiat finally caves under the burden of its own issues, overdebtedness of the economy, etc., there will be a reset to another form of fiat, crypto currencies can gain a bigger market share as people lose confidence in fiat, but defeating it completely is unlikely, even if Bitcoin didn't have the flaws it has, it's still unlikely.

Fiat hasn't existed for thousands of years.

The Chinese tried unbacked paper currency = fiat many centuries ago, long before Europeans did. They pretty much invented this concept. It could be just a thousand years, not thousands, still it's a widely known concept to them.

Like you said all fiat systems always comes to an end. How long do you think people will keep doing this now they know they have an alternatives? By the way your confusing money with legal tender. Even the Chinese in history understood Gold etc needed to back paper money.

Let's say the Dollar and various fiats died next week, all the people unless they were holding assets like Gold or tangible assets and Bitcoin owners are safe and even prosper. It wouldn't take a genius to know what the image of abitcoin would be after such an event. Bitcoin won't die it will grow like a virus till it infects the whole world. The future if sound money wisely is part of it will be based on digital currencies backed also by governments and Gold.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

This is like 'Anonymint' all over again.

It is Anonymint.

How can you be sure?  

He's had to make new accounts because the Anonymint account was made inaccessible on purpose.

I requested the AnonyMint be disabled (I didn't think about just scrambling my password, which is what I have done since to disable TheFascistMind). I was hoping to stop wasting time posting in forums, so I could get more real work done, also because my health had declined so much and being on the internet was probably the wrong activity to improve my health.

I felt lately I could be more focused in my posts, and there were a few very important things I wanted to say.

I also I really don't want to sway people with a reputation, but rather with my logic. I had always promised not to use my AnonyMint reputation to promote an altcoin.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon  

No fool. The dollar will become stronger because it is the most liquid and the rest of the world is short dollars given massive borrowings in dollars due to QE.

The Euro and the USD is like two people jumping from a skyscraper, at the moment USD is ahead, before that EUR was ahead, but in the end all fiat currencies will approximate their inner value, which is zero.

If people would not be threatened with violence by the government, that would have happened a long time ago. Do you really believe Germans would use the Euro if they could use anything? Such as a gold backed currency issued by Swiss banks, maybe?

The USD is not strong, the others are even weaker. The ECB has indicated that they will print EURO even more radically than the USA - and there is not much else to turn to. AUD is too small, JPY is even worse than EUR, CHF is bound to the EUR

USD IS STRONG DUE TO LACK OF ALTERNATIVES!

The value of fiat never goes to zero when the country still has a strong military, police, and can sell its bonds.

It only goes to zero when there is a total collapse of government and everyone flees, e.g. Wiemar Germany or Zimbabwe.

So sorry you are talking the usual goldbug delusional nonsense that has no example in history.

We are headed into deflation and the entire world is short the dollar with widespread dollar loans. The dollar will come much stronger as the rest of the world collapses. The USA will then collapse because the strong dollar will strangle its economy.

We will then go into war and chaos. Eventually the powers-that-be will reset the global monetary system, but never will they have given up power.

Gold will go very high after 2016 when the USA starts to collapse. But it will not go to $50,000 and the dollar will not go to 0.

And to cash your gold back into the fiat system will require you provide identification and you will be heavily taxed (maybe even 90%).

Sorry there is no escape from the move towards 666, unless perhaps we actually created anonymity the way I have been advocating.

Edit: gold has not bottomed yet. Expect sub-$1000 with a natural target in the $800s but $630 is not impossible. Ditto Bitcoin has not bottomed yet. Why? The dollar will come much stronger in 2015. And the delusional goldbugs (who also buy Bitcoin) have to first become dejected before we can bottom.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

not defeating, supplanting.

Supplanting in a semantic delusion, because non-anonymous Bitcoin will actually be joining the fiat system and be part of the global monetary reset with the powers-that-be still in control of you and I.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Let's say the Dollar and various fiats died next week, all the people unless they were holding assets like Gold or tangible assets and Bitcoin owners are safe and even prosper.

Don't you even bother to check history before spouting delusion?

Gold rarely holds its value when there is total collapse. Rather it is food that becomes valuable and the gold gets buried because it can't be spent. Rice was money for 600 years in Japan. Food was money during the Dark Age in Europe, not gold.

Gold only has value during brief periods of government failure, and where the gold can be moved into a new fiat asset that is functioning. If fiat fails totally, then gold also fails. Study history!

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Bitcoin will very likely become synonymous with being a criminal.

You fucking mischievous liar. Do not quote me, then edit what I wrote to totally change the meaning of what I wrote.

...Unlike using cash, employing anonymity in Bitcoin will very likely become synonymous with being a criminal...

I had written that using Bitcoin in a KYC (you are not anonymous) compliant provider such as Coinbase or Paypal, will be sanctioned by the powers-that-be and you will not be labeled a criminal.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

OP you seem to be worried about bitcoin/anonimity/government tooooooo much..

watch the first 15 minutes of this video
http://bravenewcoin.com/news/andreas-antonopoulos-at-bitcoinsouth-money-as-a-content-type/

and allow andreas to explain to you why worrying about government rules or attempts to control are futile. and the multiple ways to hide where the funds came from in the world and went to in the world.

no law can stop bitcoin, it can only scare people (well sheeple that dont quite get bitcoin, and fear governments)

Andreas correctly explains that Bitcoin implements the End-to-End Principle of the internet, but he fails to articulate (at least in the first 7 minutes and I don't have time to listen to him ramble on, he doesn't go directly to the point) that is what he is explaining because apparently he doesn't quite understand the internet as well as I do or perhaps he is just dumbing down his explanation because I see he has a degree in Computer Science and experience in networking. What I can see is that his focus has been more on networking and network security (including hardware too), whereas my experience has been on making million user commercial software and I have always been as well a theoretical thinker. So I approach this from a more broad perspective and apparently more experience in scaling than he has. He is obviously no technical slouch and I suspect we might have interesting conversations someday. I suspect I have a much more broad understanding of political economics and macro economics than he does. In short, he appears to me to be somewhat pigeon-holed.

And end-to-end is why Cryptonote ring signatures are best for on chain anonymity. And we still need an improved high-latency Tor for IP anonymity to transmit the transaction to the network.

It doesn't matter if you use a pigeon to deliver your transaction to the network to hide your IP address, Bitcoin's block chain is traceable and linkable because it doesn't have ring signatures.

And the lack of anonymity for the miners remains the choke hold point weakness in Bitcoin. Miners can be regulated and forced to reject transactions that don't attach KYC identity.

Sorry I already had this debate with you and we will not repeat it again. If you persist in repeating the debate which I already embarrassed you in the other thread, I will close the thread. Because you are wasting my scarce time.

We already established that you are a technical neophyte compared to me. I have 3 decades of serious programming experience and accomplishments, and you have been in the retail industry.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

not many people actually think that bitcoin will defeat FIAT.

FIAT is nearly dead all by itself, leaving people to voluntarily move over to bitcoin. without bitcoin even having to try defeating fiat

The next megacrash will settle it; 2008 Episode 2; playing in the real world near you very soon  

I don't think the stock market crash of 2008 had so much to do with Bitcoin's success, but rather the overall economic crisis that included a banking crisis. People generally did not trust banks and needed an alternative place to store their money

Bitcoin was the techie version of delusional goldbug fever.

Due to the QE there is a lot of stupid money floating around in the world looking for a delusion to be wasted on. That is why we saw bubbles flame out in real estate, commodities, gold, and then Bitcoin.

Once the deflation sets in earnestly 2016 onwards, the delusional are going to lose their money either from wrong investments or confiscation because they were deluded about the power of government.

Then finally the smart money will be only standing at the end game 2024 ish.

That means most of you readers are the dumb money and so you will lose your undeserved wealth.

[Flashman]

We already established that you are technical neophyte compared to me. I have 3 decades of serious programming experience and accomplishments, and you have been in the retail industry.

Dude, that's why nobody is listening, you claim tech experience then 95% of your waffle is economics. I would trust a retail pro to have a firmer grasp on economics.

[fulcare]

Let's say the Dollar and various fiats died next week, all the people unless they were holding assets like Gold or tangible assets and Bitcoin owners are safe and even prosper.

Don't you even bother to check history before spouting delusion?

Gold rarely holds its value when there is total collapse. Rather it is food that becomes valuable and the gold gets buried because it can't be spent. Rice was money for 600 years in Japan. Food was money during the Dark Age in Europe, not gold.

Gold only has value during brief periods of government failure, and where the gold can be moved into a new fiat asset that is functioning. If fiat fails totally, then gold also fails. Study history!

Seems to me you are quite the fuckwit. Firstly do you want me to post charts of countries right now where the currency is being devalued and Gold is making a moon shoot?

Gold means you weather the storm and come out the other end with your assets intact ie money, the fiat in your pocket however in a total currency collapse is toilet paper and will never recover and no one said having food supplies isn't also important though most modern collapse in recent history like in Argentina people weren't starving in the street, they just lost the wealth they had accumulated over for some a lifetime.  You misunderstand price for value ie wealth.  Its a common misunderstandings among children and old ladies so don't take it too hard.

Check your history? Why the fuck would I do that based on the Assclownery you think is knowledge.


PS Bitcoin can't be debased like fiat yooooooou fuuuuuuuuucking flid.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Let's say the Dollar and various fiats died next week, all the people unless they were holding assets like Gold or tangible assets and Bitcoin owners are safe and even prosper.

Don't you even bother to check history before spouting delusion?

Gold rarely holds its value when there is total collapse. Rather it is food that becomes valuable and the gold gets buried because it can't be spent. Rice was money for 600 years in Japan. Food was money during the Dark Age in Europe, not gold.

Gold only has value during brief periods of government failure, and where the gold can be moved into a new fiat asset that is functioning. If fiat fails totally, then gold also fails. Study history!

Seems to me you are quite the fuckwit. Firstly do you want me to post charts of countries right now where the currency is being devalued and Gold is making a moon shoot?

Gold means you weather the storm and come out the other end with your assets intact ie money, the fiat in your pocket however in a total currency collapse is toilet paper and will never recover and no one said having food supplies isn't also important though most modern collapse in recent history like in Argentina people weren't starving in the street, they just lost the wealth they had accumulated over for some a lifetime.  You misunderstand price for value ie wealth.  Its a common misunderstandings among children and old ladies so don't take it too hard.

Check your history? Why the fuck would I do that based on the Assclownery you think is knowledge.


PS Bitcoin can't be debased like fiat yooooooou fuuuuuuuuucking flid.

Go ahead and copy the idiot silverbugs who I told a year in advance in a published article that silver would peak at $48 in Spring 2011, they didn't listen and they held all the way down to below $17.

Or the idiot Bitcoin twads, who I warned in public in this forum when Bitcoin was $1000 that it would drop to $350 as a first bottom. Lately I warned it would bottom below $200.

Your IQ is too low to even comprehend what I wrote. I specifically stated that gold goes very high against total failure of government such as Wiemar Germany or Zimbabwe, but it doesn't go to infinity against governments which still have the power to supply a military and sell their sovereign bonds. The USA is no where near that type of insolvency. The people are not going to run away from all their possessions in the USA and forsake the government entirely. Sorry fucktwad.

In a total collapse, if you can't run somewhere with your gold that isn't collapsed then the gold is worthless, because only food is money in a total collapse. Gold had value in Wiemar and Zimbabwe, because it could be exchanged externally where there were non-collapsed economies.

STUDY HISTORY YOU IDIOT!! You don't have a fucking clue.

And Bitcoin can surely be debased. Simply make loans denominated in Bitcoin using fractional reserves. Did you not realize that this is what the private decentralized banks did in the 1800s with gold?I guess you are totally ignorant of Gresham's Law.

Just shut up. You obviously don't have two rocks to rub together inside of that cranium you call a brain.

Dumbshit.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

We already established that you are technical neophyte compared to me. I have 3 decades of serious programming experience and accomplishments, and you have been in the retail industry.

Dude, that's why nobody is listening, you claim tech experience then 95% of your waffle is economics. I would trust a retail pro to have a firmer grasp on economics.

I see your asshole is writing your posts. Dumbshit.

Edit: I am closing the thread. Seems it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion on this forum that is any way objective and critical of Bitcoin. The delusional creeps attack with their usual ignorance.