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Author Topic: wtf is ethereum?  (Read 3011 times)
spooderman (OP)
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December 06, 2014, 01:29:51 AM
 #1

I've done a lot of rookie research and can't seem to understand what it is.

I've heard that it's turing complete, the html to bitcoin's http, an extra layer, NOT an alt etc.

Is it just 'BML?' (bitcoin markup language?)

How does it use and relate to the blockchain to do whatever it's doing that bitcoin isn't?

What does it all mean??

Society doesn't scale.
Kluge
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December 06, 2014, 01:59:55 AM
 #2

Craigslist + escrow + Bitcoin + Namecoin + integrated Namecoin web hosting. Basically, it's Bitcoin with much more functionality baked in (allowing nodes to host much more content than current [already-overworked] BTC nodes do), but uses Ether as the currency with horribly-named, arbitrary sub-units.

Don't think too hard about it (its blockchain will be quite different than BTC's -- they don't expect everyone to download "the Internet," so it necessarily becomes a much more complex system) -- it allows the network to host, basically, the Internet, but tries making this a much less burdensome process for regular users by baking in certain features the devs find to be critical in a trustless web society. They're basically trying to "facilitate" a new decentralized Internet with the coin by aligning incentives so moving away from the current centralized model is profitable for most involved. It'll be interesting to see if it can actually scale.

(... basically)
BlindMayorBitcorn
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December 06, 2014, 02:02:38 AM
 #3

Yes. But will it blend?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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December 06, 2014, 02:04:23 AM
 #4

An overhyped project which raised a lot of funds using buzzwords and smart marketing.






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...INTRODUCING WAVES........
...ULTIMATE ASSET/CUSTOM TOKEN BLOCKCHAIN PLATFORM...






Kluge
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December 06, 2014, 02:09:19 AM
 #5

Yes. But will it blend?
A good, but challenging, question. I would say it is unlikely, unless smartphones end up making up many of the nodes, where older smartphones were shown to be blendable. -But, if you were to only blend certain critical components, then absolutely. Any CAT/coax cable could be blended, and obviously a telephone wire can.... I'm not sure about the newer fiber cabling, though.... probably.

I mean... You could blend a GPU and knock out its active cooling capability, but I doubt a Blendtec could truly disable a GPU in 30s of blending. A rack-mounted server wouldn't even fit, but a RPi would be annihilated. ... So it depends.... I think at least a significant percentage of the network would blend, but Ethereum would ultimately survive the attack.
jbreher
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December 06, 2014, 03:23:30 AM
 #6

Well now I'm completely baffled.

I of course am familiar with Blender, the 3D Modeling/Rendering app from the FOSS world. Is this s thinly disguised riff on the the return of GPU mining?

Not sure if serious. me. on me. srsly.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
spooderman (OP)
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December 06, 2014, 04:46:38 AM
 #7

Thanks a lot for the explanation Kludge.

Question 2:

wtf is blending?

Society doesn't scale.
pedrog
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December 06, 2014, 04:51:26 AM
 #8

Thanks a lot for the explanation Kludge.

Question 2:

wtf is blending?

Will it Blend? - iPhone 6 Plus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUJcD6Ws6s

Enjoy. Smiley

Melbustus
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December 06, 2014, 05:46:51 AM
 #9

Background:
Bitcoin transactions are "programmable" in that they support a basic scripting language. This allows for things like multi-signature transactions and timelocks. That is, the existence of this scripting language allows transactions to be formed which say: "for this bitcoin to be spendable in the future, the following TWO signatures are necessary"... Or: "This bitcoin is not spendable under AFTER this date."

Bitcoin supports a number of basic operations which allow things like that. Stacking these operations on top of each other can possibly yield some pretty complex and interesting behavior. But there is no looping construct. If you're a programmer, you'll understand that immediately (if not, probably need to look it up). Essentially, without looping, many types of things are not possible.

It's critical to understand that Satoshi omitted looping (and various basic operations themselves) very intentionally. Satoshi was concerned with simplicity, robustness, and security, and adding complexity to the transaction scripting rapidly introduces all sorts of very difficult issues. Here's an interesting quote on this from Ray Dillinger, one of the cryptographers who worked on the code with Satoshi before the genesis block: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=819656.msg9171295#msg9171295


Ethereum:
Seeks to create a "Turing-Complete" transactions language; ie, one that allows for all the complexity which Bitcoin intentionally omits. It's unknown whether this is feasible without introducing potentially severe or fatal security issues. Gavin Andresen has noted these concerns, as well as the value-tradeoff in the first place: http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/06/bit-thereum.html

My own assumption is even if Ethereum *eventually* works, it's going to be very hard to trust it with any real value for quite a long time. It's troublesome, because it won't get battle-tested until there's significant value to attack, and I for one, sure don't want *my* value to be the guinea pig. Bitcoin is experimental enough...

My other issue with Ethereum is that it tries to "fix" non-problems in bitcoin, like coin distribution and mining algs. It comes with it's creator's built-in notions of economic "fairness". It's partly possible to level that same criticism at bitcoin, except that bitcoin is very simple and largely takes a "the distribution will work itself out in the end" approach, whereas Vitalik has specifically tried to engineer ideas of fairness into it (an ultimately futile and counter-productive reflex often characteristic of youth).


tldr: Ethereum is technically interesting, but I wouldn't trust its security for many years after launch (many more years than it took for me to become confident in bitcoin).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Bitcoin.Expert
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December 06, 2014, 06:09:10 AM
 #10

This question will never really be ansvered in an easy to understand way. Same with Ripple. They get repect though...
Melbustus
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December 06, 2014, 06:17:54 AM
 #11

This question will never really be ansvered in an easy to understand way. Same with Ripple. They get repect though...


Sounds like Ripple and Steller are kinda broken at the core consensus level: https://www.stellar.org/blog/safety_liveness_and_fault_tolerance_consensus_choice/

I'm guessing they'll be made more and more explicitly centralized as time goes by.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Alex_crypto
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December 06, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
 #12

I still have no real idea what Ethereum is. I have really looked at it. Doesnt really make sense to me.
spooderman (OP)
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December 06, 2014, 02:47:35 PM
 #13

Thank you Melbustus.

Society doesn't scale.
bornil267645
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December 06, 2014, 02:50:30 PM
 #14

At some point, I heard about ethereum was going to be the next big thing. But what happened?

newIndia
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December 06, 2014, 02:51:44 PM
 #15

I've done a lot of rookie research and can't seem to understand what it is.

I've heard that it's turing complete, the html to bitcoin's http, an extra layer, NOT an alt etc.

Is it just 'BML?' (bitcoin markup language?)

How does it use and relate to the blockchain to do whatever it's doing that bitcoin isn't?

What does it all mean??

Ethereum is the name of an awesome concept that its inventor failed to materialize.

redsn0w
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December 06, 2014, 02:53:48 PM
Last edit: December 06, 2014, 03:06:43 PM by redsn0w
 #16

I've done a lot of rookie research and can't seem to understand what it is.

I've heard that it's turing complete, the html to bitcoin's http, an extra layer, NOT an alt etc.

Is it just 'BML?' (bitcoin markup language?)

How does it use and relate to the blockchain to do whatever it's doing that bitcoin isn't?

What does it all mean??

Ethereum is the name of an awesome concept that its inventor failed to materialize.

Failed , do you mean "scam" ? Because I don't think they have scammed anyone...
oldbute
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December 06, 2014, 03:04:36 PM
 #17

Melbustus answers is the best so far.

For a concrete example: you can code a crowd funding contract into etheruem.  This contract lives in the ehtereum's block chain and handles pledges and releasing the funds to the final party or returning them to the pledgees if the contract is not fully funded by a certain date.   You can't program that into Bitcoin's blockchain.

 Turing complete meaning you have loops, if/then, functions, etc.. AND storage to use to build your application, like you would in say a ruby web app with a database.  You would want to keep them simple though, each  transaction and your storage size determines the amount of ether it costs for that contract.
spooderman (OP)
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December 06, 2014, 03:23:05 PM
 #18

It sounds quite amazing, but it's going to take year I imagine before this thing can get its shit together. It must be the mother of all technical challenges to do all this in a decentralised manner. Simple systems FTW. Emergent complexity ftMFw.

Society doesn't scale.
RodeoX
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December 06, 2014, 03:28:23 PM
 #19

I still have no real idea what Ethereum is. I have really looked at it. Doesnt really make sense to me.
Around here that's called a "buy signal", lol.  Cheesy

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
spooderman (OP)
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December 06, 2014, 03:28:28 PM
 #20

Whenever someone mentions the unit of currency in ethereum I think of this:


Society doesn't scale.
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