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Author Topic: Snake head has been brutally chopped off!  (Read 3510 times)
nave
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June 21, 2012, 07:40:08 PM
 #21

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

SHHH! Why are you giving away out secrets?! Let all the dumb miners stop mining!

The dumb miners would be the ones continuing to mine if they payed more in electricity than they earned with the current price of coins. Just take the money you'd be paying for electricity and buy the coins, otherwise you're just losing money and wasting electricity. The fact that the price might increase in the future is irrelevant, the coins you buy (which you would get more of for less money) will still grow in value.
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June 21, 2012, 07:58:08 PM
 #22

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

SHHH! Why are you giving away out secrets?! Let all the dumb miners stop mining!

The dumb miners would be the ones continuing to mine if they payed more in electricity than they earned with the current price of coins. Just take the money you'd be paying for electricity and buy the coins, otherwise you're just losing money and wasting electricity. The fact that the price might increase in the future is irrelevant, the coins you buy (which you would get more of for less money) will still grow in value.

Hmm... Good point.
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June 21, 2012, 08:15:58 PM
 #23

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

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sadpandatech
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June 22, 2012, 12:14:02 AM
 #24

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off.  Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
seriouscoin
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June 22, 2012, 02:40:51 AM
 #25

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off.  Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there.

lol Roll Eyes


What stopping you from spending money to get mining equipment THEN.

Its the bottom line that matters. Some ppl cant do finance at all.
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June 23, 2012, 08:08:57 AM
 #26

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off.  Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there.

your example was about a miner shutting down his rig. He can simply turn it back on as soon as "50€ mining > 50€ buying".

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sadpandatech
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June 23, 2012, 08:43:12 AM
 #27

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off.  Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there.

your example was about a miner shutting down his rig. He can simply turn it back on as soon as "50€ mining > 50€ buying".

that wasn't my example.. I misread your example and took 'mining' to mean 50 euro worth of equipment.  I would assume 2 intelligent individuals, such as yourself and seriouscoin would have gathered that from the way I worded it.  How would 50 spent mining continue to bring BTC unless I was refering to a hardware purchase. Please, I beg your forgiveness for misreading and then, in turn being misread......

And I shouldn't even need to say this but its pretty obvious if you're running equipment that costs more in electricity than a BTC is worth then you're fucking doing it wrong...



lol Roll Eyes


What stopping you from spending money to get mining equipment THEN.

Its the bottom line that matters. Some ppl cant do finance at all.


 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
molecular
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June 23, 2012, 08:35:41 PM
 #28

I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.

example:

50€ mining: 7 BTC
50€ buying: 10 BTC

choose

aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off.  Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there.

your example was about a miner shutting down his rig. He can simply turn it back on as soon as "50€ mining > 50€ buying".

that wasn't my example..

I worded this badly, didn't mean 'example', more something like 'case': I was referring to "miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low"

I misread your example and took 'mining' to mean 50 euro worth of equipment.  I would assume 2 intelligent individuals, such as yourself and seriouscoin would have gathered that from the way I worded it.  How would 50 spent mining continue to bring BTC unless I was refering to a hardware purchase. Please, I beg your forgiveness for misreading and then, in turn being misread......

You're correct, I misunderstood you.

Buying mining equipment for €50 doesn't make sense either, though, if mining is already not profitable (except if the equipment is more power-efficient).

And I shouldn't even need to say this but its pretty obvious if you're running equipment that costs more in electricity than a BTC is worth then you're fucking doing it wrong...

You seem to assume everyone has access to cheap power. I've been mining on €0.23 /kWh quite profitably for quite a while, until it wasn't profitable any more at one point in late 2011. I surely wasn't "doing it wrong", I simply didn't have access to cheap enough power to mine profitably with the existing (GPU-) mining hardware. Ergo: switch it off and resort to buying.

sorry again for all the confusion... I don't think we really disagree?

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sadpandatech
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June 24, 2012, 04:25:52 AM
 #29

Aye, I don't think we're in disagreement here, m8.  Sorry I was so grumpy about the misunderstanding. ;p

and yea, I tend to forget just how ungodly expensive electricity is there in some of the Euro countries. .23euro per KWH is just friggin insane.  An expensive area here in the US is less than half of that.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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June 24, 2012, 04:43:42 AM
 #30

Aye, I don't think we're in disagreement here, m8.  Sorry I was so grumpy about the misunderstanding. ;p

and yea, I tend to forget just how ungodly expensive electricity is there in some of the Euro countries. .23euro per KWH is just friggin insane.  An expensive area here in the US is less than half of that.

Ahem, panda perhaps you have discounted Southern California as part of the US.  Yes, in the great republic of Kalifornia my bill at home last month was $118 USD for 384 KwH (Summer rate with about 30 units into Tier 3 SCE) - that's without mining and only in Tier 3.  If I mined with just 1 6950 I go to Tier 5 and pay over $0.55 USD per KwH and have the possibility of having my electricity shut-off on a hot day.

You can add California to PIIGS I guess  Roll Eyes Angry

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June 24, 2012, 05:35:12 AM
 #31

Aye, I don't think we're in disagreement here, m8.  Sorry I was so grumpy about the misunderstanding. ;p

and yea, I tend to forget just how ungodly expensive electricity is there in some of the Euro countries. .23euro per KWH is just friggin insane.  An expensive area here in the US is less than half of that.

Ahem, panda perhaps you have discounted Southern California as part of the US.  Yes, in the great republic of Kalifornia my bill at home last month was $118 USD for 384 KwH (Summer rate with about 30 units into Tier 3 SCE) - that's without mining and only in Tier 3.  If I mined with just 1 6950 I go to Tier 5 and pay over $0.55 USD per KwH and have the possibility of having my electricity shut-off on a hot day.

You can add California to PIIGS I guess  Roll Eyes Angry
hehe, you mean to tell me Cali has still not succeeded from the US?  And, hoyl friggin cow, man!  How are they producing power in that part of Cali, out of curiousity?

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
molecular
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June 24, 2012, 07:57:49 AM
 #32

Aye, I don't think we're in disagreement here, m8.  Sorry I was so grumpy about the misunderstanding. ;p

and yea, I tend to forget just how ungodly expensive electricity is there in some of the Euro countries. .23euro per KWH is just friggin insane.  An expensive area here in the US is less than half of that.

I'm actually in favor of high energy prices. It prepares us for shortages of stuff to burn.

I have the impression in the US energy prices are somehow subsidized while in Europe they are punished by tax. Too bad we can't easily have a global market...

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June 24, 2012, 12:28:59 PM
 #33

hehe, you mean to tell me Cali has still not succeeded from the US?  And, hoyl friggin cow, man!  How are they producing power in that part of Cali, out of curiousity?
Hamsters, apparently. I hear they are fairly expensive to maintain.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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June 24, 2012, 12:43:25 PM
 #34

I knew it!!!.........that was the only reasonable explanation. Grin

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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June 24, 2012, 02:49:19 PM
 #35

Aliens taste like chicken.  I am not threatened by anything that tastes like chicken.


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June 25, 2012, 04:46:05 PM
 #36

I'm glad I didn't turn off my rigs last November and December, yet I was even more glad many people did, and difficulty went down.

Why would I stop the rigs I paid quite a bit of money for, and start buying coins? The hardware didn't pay for itself at this point and turning it off would have meant to lose value by the day either way. It's not like anyone will pay you more if you told them the gpus are 2 years old, but were hardly used from November-December 2011. Buying coins on top of having built mining rigs wouldn't have been a possibility moneywise, and an extra risk in terms of over-investing, or losing your investment. Say you spent 2500 dollars on hardware and shit had started hitting the fan (a price drop to 2$ is not such an event by the way) you could still have sold the hardware. So, why take on extra risk buying coins instead of mining as an already heavily invested miner? The only thing one could have done is to sell the hardware right away, which would have meant a certain loss instead of a potential loss.

Another issue is whether you have to pay electricity every month, or if you only pay a monthly rate that stays constant the whole year long, and is adjusted at the end of the year only. The latter is the case for me.

So, what concern is it to me that the Bitcoin price temporarily goes down to 2$ if I can keep the coins and sell for 6-7, for example in January, or right now? No point in turning off the rigs there and leave others with a higher share of payouts.

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