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Author Topic: So I guess MtGox isn't even trying anymore ...  (Read 6081 times)
Mt.Gox Support
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June 20, 2012, 05:11:08 AM
 #21

That doesn't explain one damn thing. Bitcoin is nothing to banks. Mtgox isn't even a gnat in the financial world. It's a microbe.

What about wire transfers? What's your excuse there? I wire huge amounts of money all over the world with far far more AML regs and yet they don't take more than 15 minutes to do a wire and receive a confirmation of reception. Yet mtgox takes a week to even start it.

Let's face it gox has extremely poor liquidity and that's usually the red flag that any financial institution is about to go under.

You all should be prepping your resumes rather than running the PR bullshiat here. None of us are buying it.

The rats are jumping your sinking ship.

Did you open a ticket? And what is the Ticket number to check what's going on. I am not telling this is your case, but we see many mistakes made by users when filling the withdrawal process that in some case will make the overall process very long.

I can't speak for him but ...

In my case this is the 4th wire.  All exactly the same.  Same bank, same instructions, same account, same AML docs.
The first two went fast, third one took over two weeks before you even submitted it (and when submitted it cleared quickly in 5 days).
The fourth one hasn't been submitted yet.  

I am not sure if you know this but ... a bank wire can't be transferred if you don't give it to your bank.  That is kinda step #1.  

So the question is why are you intentionally NOT sending the wire instructions to your bank?

Dwolla?  AML/KYC?  Wrong instructions?  I say bullshit!  Hell they aren't even good lies.

Dear DeathAndTaxes

I am not sure if you understand the process here. You are requesting us to send money to you from Japan to the US via an usual Wire transfer. If your first two one went just fine it was because they were below 10,000 USD or not reaching in total 10,000USD, but! Requesting more and more withdrawals made you reach this 10,000 USD limit within a certain laps of time and you know that, regardless of whoever you are, the 10,000 USD limit trigger some more "investigation" from Banks and other authorities which explain the some delays and this of course is totally out of our control. An US to US Transfer is much easier... But a JP to US transfer is slightly more complicated and trigger many alarms when it reach 10,000 USD within a certain period of time.

Mt.Gox : The Leading International Bitcoin Exchange.
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bulanula
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June 20, 2012, 12:59:14 PM
 #22

And I wonder why more ppl have not caught on to being Gox'ed. These fuckers are fraudulent!

On another note, There has been multiple times within the last ~6mo that the price per btc randomly dropped to like $2 per btc... then back up to normal price... They have closed my account and friends accounts for no reason and KEPT THE BTC.

Why are they popular, because of these forums... and others that have no idea of their history.

Gox, go eat a bowl of dicks!

Watch it dood.

The forum is owned by Gox so I would censor myself.  Wink

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June 20, 2012, 01:33:53 PM
 #23

and you know that, regardless of whoever you are, the 10,000 USD limit trigger some more "investigation" from Banks and other authorities which explain the some delays and this of course is totally out of our control. An US to US Transfer is much easier... But a JP to US transfer is slightly more complicated and trigger many alarms when it reach 10,000 USD within a certain period of time.

Sorry that is a load of garbage.
1) While you may have convinced your customers that week long delays are unacceptable on wires they aren't.  Due to your inability to get a wire done in <14 days I needed to have funds wired to me from my brokerage.  I requested a $20K wire at 8AM and it cleared by noon.  A week later I requested an $85K wire and it cleared within 6 hours.  

2) While an international wire may take longer it shouldn't be taking 19 days longer.  That is whole point of AML verification.  My bank account is AML verified.  My MtGox exchange account is AML verified.  How much investigation can one possibly due in 19 days.  You have my info it either checks out or it doesn't.  You never asked for more info to aid your investigation.  I mean how many times can you look at my utility bill over the course of 19 days?

3) If my funds are being held for an investigation (which I don't think they are) are employees of your company engaging in a criminal conspiracy here?
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MtGox Support: If its urgent, we will be able to cancel your withdraw and use another funding options for better solution. Please let us know by

Me: Which funding option would be a better solution?

MtGox: Better solution may be by using Bitinstant to withdraw your funds. If you have a account with them.

Note: this was taken from email between me & MtGox.  I would rather not share the original email (w/ personal and account information) in the open but if MtGox disputes this I would be happy to send copies to a mod.

Are you really advising your customer on how to avoid an AML investigation?  
Should the Japanese regulators be made aware of this?

I doubt your customer support is stupid enough to openly document a conspiracy to avoid AML/KYC procedures in a trouble ticket.  The reality is that this delay has nothing to do w/ AML does it?  Still since be both know this isn't due to any regulatory requirement I would be happy to use BitInstant (I hear they can actually payout funds they owe).   I don't feel it is fair to ask me to pay the $240 in transfer fees because you couldn't do your job.

Credit my account the bitinstant fees, cancel all requests and I will take my funds and not come back.  To tell a customer that they need to pay MORE in fees because YOU can't do your job is beyond insulting.
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June 20, 2012, 01:35:50 PM
 #24

and you know that, regardless of whoever you are, the 10,000 USD limit trigger some more "investigation" from Banks and other authorities which explain the some delays and this of course is totally out of our control. An US to US Transfer is much easier... But a JP to US transfer is slightly more complicated and trigger many alarms when it reach 10,000 USD within a certain period of time.

Sorry that is a load of garbage.
1) While you may have convinced your customers that week long delays are unacceptable on wires they aren't.  Due to your inability to get a wire done in <14 days I needed to have funds wired to me from my brokerage.  I requested a $20K wire at 8AM and it cleared by noon.  A week later I requested an $85K wire and it cleared within 6 hours. 

2) While an international wire may take longer it shouldn't be taking 19 days longer.  That is whole point of AML verification.  My bank account is AML verified.  My MtGox exchange account is AML verified.  How much investigation can one possibly due in 19 days.  You have my info it either checks out or it doesn't.  You never asked for more info to aid your investigation.  I mean how many times can you look at my utility bill over the course of 19 days?

3) If my funds are being held for an investigation (which I don't think they are) are you committing a crime here:

Quote
MtGox Support: If its urgent, we will be able to cancel your withdraw and use another funding options for better solution. Please let us know by

Me: Which funding option would be a better solution?

MtGox: Better solution may be by using Bitinstant to withdraw your funds. If you have a account with them.

You are advising your customer on how to avoid an AML investigation? 
Should the Japanese regulators be made aware of this?

I doubt your customer support is stupid enough to document a conspiracy to avoid AML/KYC procedures.  The reality is that  this has nothing to do w/ AML does it?

Dood, it is AML. Once you cross the $10 000 limit it automatically kicks in due to US gov regulations.

No US citizen can have more than 10k in foreign bank accounts without filing tax reports, or at least that was something I read in another thread Grin

No solvency issues here, move on Tongue
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June 20, 2012, 02:09:55 PM
 #25

Yes and Yes and Yes and Yes... We are working on fixing this Dwolla situation and working on other alternative to make sure that something like today's Dwolla Situation will not reproduce itself. and PLEASE remember that we are STILL WAITING Dwolla's reply on whether or not they are willing to continue to work with Bitcoin and Mt.Gox in generla... It is now around 15 days that we have no news from them.

After you find an alternative (if you actually do), isn't a lawsuit against Dwolla applicable, like what TradeHill's doing?
I mean, their lack of will to cooperate is causing harm to you and your customers.
Doesn't their TOS establish a minimum time for transfers or something that could be used?

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
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June 20, 2012, 04:09:52 PM
 #26

Quote from: bulanula
Dood, it is AML. Once you cross the $10 000 limit it automatically kicks in due to US gov regulations.

No US citizen can have more than 10k in foreign bank accounts without filing tax reports, or at least that was something I read in another thread Grin

No solvency issues here, move on Tongue

They don't investigate shiat when you send/receive over 10K. I wire 250-300K around for a ship to refuel at foreign ports. It's a simple form(s) that is automatically done by a computer. They just have to file the form. They don't have to hold the transaction to file it, only report it.  It's the same thing in the US. Wire transfers are virtually instant. Assuming someone actually processes them.
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June 20, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
 #27

Quote from: bulanula
Dood, it is AML. Once you cross the $10 000 limit it automatically kicks in due to US gov regulations.

No US citizen can have more than 10k in foreign bank accounts without filing tax reports, or at least that was something I read in another thread Grin

No solvency issues here, move on Tongue

They don't investigate shiat when you send/receive over 10K. I wire 250-300K around for a ship to refuel at foreign ports. It's a simple form(s) that is automatically done by a computer. They just have to file the form. They don't have to hold the transaction to file it, only report it.  It's the same thing in the US. Wire transfers are virtually instant. Assuming someone actually processes them.


I must regrettably inform you that due to unknown circumstances your sarcasm detector is broken sir !
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June 20, 2012, 04:22:15 PM
 #28

Yeah, I have to say that even an international wire shouldn't be so delayed if the sender is properly verified. There are two main issues I can see that would explain the MT Gox situation:

1) MT Gox is getting extra scrutiny from Japanese regulators, such that they are performing extra vetting and doing so in a slow manner. Dealing in a virtual product and wiring many different entities money without being a registered bank or financial company.

2) MT Gox is keeping the majority of their non-bitcoin funds in an interest bearing account that trades a withdrawal delay for higher interest rate. They have a smaller slush pool to deal with small withdrawals but large withdrawal requests would require transferring funds from the interest account (that could take a couple of business weeks). If they were being very stingy on how much they remove from the interest bearing account then there would be an almost perpetual 2 weekish delay for large withdrawals. In practice, it would be a bit of a lottery on who gets stuck waiting as MT Gox would probably be withdrawing a bit more than the minimum needed to fulfill the immediate requests. So the backlog gets fulfilled and then a percentage of the large withdrawal requests made afterwards.

If it is #2, I'm surprised they haven't restructured it to be less of a pain.
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June 20, 2012, 04:31:10 PM
 #29

Yeah, I have to say that even an international wire shouldn't be so delayed if the sender is properly verified. There are two main issues I can see that would explain the MT Gox situation:

1) MT Gox is getting extra scrutiny from Japanese regulators, such that they are performing extra vetting and doing so in a slow manner. Dealing in a virtual product and wiring many different entities money without being a registered bank or financial company.

2) MT Gox is keeping the majority of their non-bitcoin funds in an interest bearing account that trades a withdrawal delay for higher interest rate. They have a smaller slush pool to deal with small withdrawals but large withdrawal requests would require transferring funds from the interest account (that could take a couple of business weeks). If they were being very stingy on how much they remove from the interest bearing account then there would be an almost perpetual 2 weekish delay for large withdrawals. In practice, it would be a bit of a lottery on who gets stuck waiting as MT Gox would probably be withdrawing a bit more than the minimum needed to fulfill the immediate requests. So the backlog gets fulfilled and then a percentage of the large withdrawal requests made afterwards.

If it is #2, I'm surprised they haven't restructured it to be less of a pain.

3) MT Gox is insolvent on the USD side, and they need to wait for other clients to deposit additional USD before they can process large withdrawals.
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June 20, 2012, 04:40:19 PM
 #30

Yeah, that would work very similarly to #2. I'd like to think an exchange wouldn't let itself get in that situation though. ><

Make that 3 most likely scenarios.


3) MT Gox is insolvent on the USD side, and they need to wait for other clients to deposit additional USD before they can process large withdrawals.
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June 20, 2012, 04:47:13 PM
 #31

...To tell a customer that they need to pay MORE in fees because YOU can't do your job is beyond insulting.

Gox, has it ever come to mind you should start compensating your customers for lost due to your incompetence ?
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June 20, 2012, 04:48:27 PM
 #32

Yeah, I have to say that even an international wire shouldn't be so delayed if the sender is properly verified. There are two main issues I can see that would explain the MT Gox situation:

1) MT Gox is getting extra scrutiny from Japanese regulators, such that they are performing extra vetting and doing so in a slow manner. Dealing in a virtual product and wiring many different entities money without being a registered bank or financial company.

2) MT Gox is keeping the majority of their non-bitcoin funds in an interest bearing account that trades a withdrawal delay for higher interest rate. They have a smaller slush pool to deal with small withdrawals but large withdrawal requests would require transferring funds from the interest account (that could take a couple of business weeks). If they were being very stingy on how much they remove from the interest bearing account then there would be an almost perpetual 2 weekish delay for large withdrawals. In practice, it would be a bit of a lottery on who gets stuck waiting as MT Gox would probably be withdrawing a bit more than the minimum needed to fulfill the immediate requests. So the backlog gets fulfilled and then a percentage of the large withdrawal requests made afterwards.

If it is #2, I'm surprised they haven't restructured it to be less of a pain.

3) MT Gox is insolvent on the USD side, and they need to wait for other clients to deposit additional USD before they can process large withdrawals.

You know they use banks that send wires, it's digital money. They don't have a scrooge mcduck pile of USD and euros and whatever else. the banks can easily and fairly cheaply convert the currency on the fly to whatever. Gox probably uses a brokerage house that can do it much much more cheaply, or they've contracted with one that is completely and totally inept.
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June 20, 2012, 04:52:22 PM
 #33

You know they use banks that send wires, it's digital money. They don't have a scrooge mcduck pile of USD and euros and whatever else. the banks can easily and fairly cheaply convert the currency on the fly to whatever. Gox probably uses a brokerage house that can do it much much more cheaply, or they've contracted with one that is completely and totally inept.

So if Gox has a large stockpile of BTC and insufficient USD/fiat to cover a large withdrawal, which bank would they approach to do that currency conversion?
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June 20, 2012, 06:33:56 PM
 #34

It's not just large withdrawals. I've been waiting on a $200 dwolla withdrawal for almost 2 weeks now.
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June 20, 2012, 06:52:32 PM
 #35

Dwolla is it's own issue, I'm referring to basic wire transfers.
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June 20, 2012, 11:51:20 PM
 #36

From the thread that Gox linked to:

2. Who’s affected by this problem?

People using Dwolla for their withdrawals, along with 5% of US Dollar wire transfers which is an unfortunate flow-on effect.

Could it be that you're seeing that "5% flow-on effect" that they refer to?

I don't understand what that means, or why problems with Dwolla would affect unrelated US Dollar wire transfers.

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June 22, 2012, 03:29:58 AM
 #37

That doesn't explain one damn thing. Bitcoin is nothing to banks. Mtgox isn't even a gnat in the financial world. It's a microbe.

What about wire transfers? What's your excuse there? I wire huge amounts of money all over the world with far far more AML regs and yet they don't take more than 15 minutes to do a wire and receive a confirmation of reception. Yet mtgox takes a week to even start it.

Let's face it gox has extremely poor liquidity and that's usually the red flag that any financial institution is about to go under.

You all should be prepping your resumes rather than running the PR bullshiat here. None of us are buying it.

The rats are jumping your sinking ship.

Did you open a ticket? And what is the Ticket number to check what's going on. I am not telling this is your case, but we see many mistakes made by users when filling the withdrawal process that in some case will make the overall process very long.
such a bullshit how come you guys cannot process 600$ for 3 weeks anybody who is reading that  i wouldnt process more then 300-400 with them just in case u will never see them again its not a lot of money
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June 22, 2012, 03:33:20 AM
 #38

That doesn't explain one damn thing. Bitcoin is nothing to banks. Mtgox isn't even a gnat in the financial world. It's a microbe.

What about wire transfers? What's your excuse there? I wire huge amounts of money all over the world with far far more AML regs and yet they don't take more than 15 minutes to do a wire and receive a confirmation of reception. Yet mtgox takes a week to even start it.

Let's face it gox has extremely poor liquidity and that's usually the red flag that any financial institution is about to go under.

You all should be prepping your resumes rather than running the PR bullshiat here. None of us are buying it.

The rats are jumping your sinking ship.

Did you open a ticket? And what is the Ticket number to check what's going on. I am not telling this is your case, but we see many mistakes made by users when filling the withdrawal process that in some case will make the overall process very long.
such a bullshit how come you guys cannot process 600$ for 3 weeks anybody who is reading that  i wouldnt process more then 300-400 with them just in case u will never see them again its not a lot of money

Please check the link here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87320.msg981278#msg981278

Mt.Gox : The Leading International Bitcoin Exchange.
Mt.Gox Merchant Solutions : https://mtgox.com/merchant
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June 27, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
 #39

Just a bump, bump, bump.

Dwolla transfers finally cleared after 2 weeks but the bank wire (yeah that option I idiotically paid $40 extra for) still hasn't even been processed.  No ETA, no processing, no funds. 

So if Dwolla is causing delays in bank wires then how is it that my Dwolla requests got funded faster than the bank wire?
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June 27, 2012, 04:32:43 PM
 #40

Just a bump, bump, bump.

Dwolla transfers finally cleared after 2 weeks but the bank wire (yeah that option I idiotically paid $40 extra for) still hasn't even been processed.  No ETA, no processing, no funds. 

So if Dwolla is causing delays in bank wires then how is it that my Dwolla requests got funded faster than the bank wire?
B/c MtGox might be running a scam

Trading MtGox USD for Dwolla/ACH deposit/Chase cash deposit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90115.0
Buy/Sell Call/Put Bitcoin options https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99853.0
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