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Author Topic: So I guess MtGox isn't even trying anymore ...  (Read 6353 times)
Mt.Gox Support
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June 28, 2012, 02:15:26 AM
 #41

Just a bump, bump, bump.

Dwolla transfers finally cleared after 2 weeks but the bank wire (yeah that option I idiotically paid $40 extra for) still hasn't even been processed.  No ETA, no processing, no funds. 

So if Dwolla is causing delays in bank wires then how is it that my Dwolla requests got funded faster than the bank wire?
B/c MtGox might be running a scam

Please stop spreading false rumors pretty much everywhere on this forum. If you could please focus on one thread it will make is MUCH easier for everyone to follow the overall conversation and for us to explain the situation, which by the way has been already explained here on this forum many times!

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. Server-assisted clients like blockchain.info rely on centralized servers to do their network verification for them. Although the server can't steal the client's bitcoins directly, it can easily execute double-spending-style attacks against the client.
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June 28, 2012, 03:24:45 AM
 #42

Please stop spreading false rumors pretty much everywhere on this forum. If you could please focus on one thread it will make is MUCH easier for everyone to follow the overall conversation and for us to explain the situation, which by the way has been already explained here on this forum many times!

To the best of my knowledge, Mt. Gox has not offered a single credible response to claims that it is delaying the initiation of wire transfers.

All of the apologies recently offered by Mt. Gox center around Dwolla.  People complain about delayed bank wires, and the answer has invariably been "Dwolla".  It may as well be "More Cowbell", or "42", or "potassium hydroxide", because as everyone knows, Dwolla is completely irrelevant to bank wires.

And how about moving some bitcoins or signing a text message with private keys to prove ownership of BTC?  Too difficult?  Too busy?  This would help perception, but it is a simple avenue not being pursued.

I genuinely wish for Mt. Gox's success, but believing that something is seriously wrong over at Mt. Gox is reasonable given what's on the radar.  Just sayin!

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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June 28, 2012, 03:38:43 AM
 #43


And how about moving some bitcoins or signing a text message with private keys to prove ownership of BTC?  Too difficult?  Too busy?  This would help perception, but it is a simple avenue not being pursued.


Mark already replied to you by e-mail for that.

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June 28, 2012, 03:46:44 AM
 #44


And how about moving some bitcoins or signing a text message with private keys to prove ownership of BTC?  Too difficult?  Too busy?  This would help perception, but it is a simple avenue not being pursued.


Mark already replied to you by e-mail for that.

He didn't move any coins or sign any messages though.  All he did was suggest that to do so would be reckless, something I can't agree with if the objective can be accomplished merely by signing some messages using an airgapped computer.  I even suggested in e-mail that he sign messages and then use trusted representatives under NDA to claim on his behalf the number of BTC proven, if there was even a remote chance he didn't want the specific list of MtGox BTC identified in public on the block chain (something the customer base can probably appreciate as well as MtGox).  He agreed it was a good idea, but to my knowledge, has never done it.  If he in fact has though, I will strike out any claim that this is an outstanding issue.  But the mere fact that he "e-mailed me" doesn't satisfy the request, certainly not for the bitcoin community at large.

Edit: I just got on Facebook and noticed a MtGox press release about new availability of US wires.  If this means in any remote sense that people can start withdrawing again (given reasonable identity requirements commensurate with the balance being withdrawn), and I become convinced that people aren't being forced to unreasonably wait for their money, then I would be happy to notate any critical postings I have made recently that the issues are resolved.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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July 08, 2012, 06:32:53 PM
 #45

But a JP to US transfer is slightly more complicated and trigger many alarms when it reach 10,000 USD within a certain period of time.

Dear Mtgox Support

Please allow me to call BS on that. I requested my very first wire transfer ever for 9k. It has been 10 days, and no one at gox has lifted a finger to help it along.  It is still in the "confirmed" status. No further response from your system. I have a trusted status in your system. Since it is my very first wire request,  it has obviously not reached the 10k limit.


It is not dwolla, it is a wire transfer, so you can't pin this one on dwolla.

If it were "processed" at your end, and the bank were delaying it, I would understand. But, that is not the case. It is in a "confirmed" status.

By contrast, Jeremy West of spendbitcoins recently sent me a similar amount from Australia, and it arrived the very next day.


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July 08, 2012, 07:57:07 PM
 #46

I've stopped using gox and I was doing quite a bit of selling btc on gox. I suggest you do too.  I realize that may not be an easy solution for some, but eventually it has to happen if they are not responsive to the problem.

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July 08, 2012, 07:58:04 PM
 #47

Watching MtGox reply without addressing anything is mind-blowing, not to mention scary.

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July 08, 2012, 09:22:09 PM
 #48

Move your operations to another exchange.  Bitfloor is great, but pretty much any other exchange is better than MTGox... because any other exchange can give you the money they owe you, MTGox clearly can not.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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July 08, 2012, 11:42:07 PM
 #49

Yeah i've waited roughly 14 days for a small transfer from gox myself, I hate to say it I really like how the exchange works at gox but if theres no changes soon I'll be moving to a different exchange as well.

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July 09, 2012, 01:29:09 AM
 #50

But a JP to US transfer is slightly more complicated and trigger many alarms when it reach 10,000 USD within a certain period of time.

Dear Mtgox Support

Please allow me to call BS on that. I requested my very first wire transfer ever for 9k. It has been 10 days, and no one at gox has lifted a finger to help it along.  It is still in the "confirmed" status. No further response from your system. I have a trusted status in your system. Since it is my very first wire request,  it has obviously not reached the 10k limit.


It is not dwolla, it is a wire transfer, so you can't pin this one on dwolla.

If it were "processed" at your end, and the bank were delaying it, I would understand. But, that is not the case. It is in a "confirmed" status.

By contrast, Jeremy West of spendbitcoins recently sent me a similar amount from Australia, and it arrived the very next day.



I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... Now since we cannot obviously give the details of all your transactions here on this forum I would like however to remind you that things are not as simple as you may think.

You won't avoid government scrutiny by sending a 9999.99 USD wire or send 1,000 USD every day during 10 Days, Or send 1,000 then 2,000, then 1,000.... and so on on a very short period of time. While all of these are each time below the 10,0000 USD Mark, government official ALSO make sure to check the "total" amount of withdraws you made within a certain period of time.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

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July 09, 2012, 01:37:53 AM
 #51


I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... Now since we cannot obviously give the details of all your transactions here on this forum I would like however to remind you that things are not as simple as you may think.

You won't avoid government scrutiny by sending a 9999.99 USD wire or send 1,000 USD every day during 10 Days, Or send 1,000 then 2,000, then 1,000.... and so on on a very short period of time. While all of these are each time below the 10,0000 USD Mark, government official ALSO make sure to check the "total" amount of withdraws you made within a certain period of time.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

Yes, MagicalTux did talk on IRC. That is much appreciated.  

(I understand your points about structuring. Pretty sure my single 9k request that was in pending for a week neither constituted structuring nor exceeded the 10k limit, but I could be wrong. (The additional wire request that sent my total over the limit is much recent.) )

But, once again, many kudos and thanks to Mark for talking with me on IRC.  Glad to hear that a resolution is underway.  +1.

EDIT: And, true. After all this, I appreciate better all the things you have to deal with and put up with before you are allowed to send wires.

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July 09, 2012, 01:39:36 AM
 #52

What I wish Mt.Gox Support would have said:

Quote from: Mt.Gox Support (imaginary)

I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... We confirm that we initiated your wire transfer through Bank of ********* on 2012-07-03 and it had a confirmation number of *********7890 as we noted in IRC.  Now, as you are probably aware, 10k isn't a hard number, you might still undergo government scrutiny at 9k or at any other number if they feel like it.  Any delays, please inquire with your bank.  Please let us know how long it takes to get you your money, it'll help us out, since this is a problem we'd really like to get resolved.  But in the meantime, you can rest assured that we've sent your wire out as instructed.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

Instead, Mt.Gox Support says:


I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... Now since we cannot obviously give the details of all your transactions here on this forum I would like however to remind you that things are not as simple as you may think.

You won't avoid government scrutiny by sending a 9999.99 USD wire or send 1,000 USD every day during 10 Days, Or send 1,000 then 2,000, then 1,000.... and so on on a very short period of time. While all of these are each time below the 10,0000 USD Mark, government official ALSO make sure to check the "total" amount of withdraws you made within a certain period of time.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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July 09, 2012, 01:44:25 AM
 #53

Casascius, from talking to MagicalTux, it seemed that it was out of their hands to effect the ideal response that you would have liked to see.

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July 09, 2012, 01:48:55 AM
 #54

What I wish Mt.Gox Support would have said:

Quote from: Mt.Gox Support (imaginary)

I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... We confirm that we initiated your wire transfer through Bank of ********* on 2012-07-03 and it had a confirmation number of *********7890 as we noted in IRC.  Now, as you are probably aware, 10k isn't a hard number, you might still undergo government scrutiny at 9k or at any other number if they feel like it.  Any delays, please inquire with your bank.  Please let us know how long it takes to get you your money, it'll help us out, since this is a problem we'd really like to get resolved.  But in the meantime, you can rest assured that we've sent your wire out as instructed.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

Instead, Mt.Gox Support says:


I believe that Magiclatux talked to you on IRC (Just about now) about this... Now since we cannot obviously give the details of all your transactions here on this forum I would like however to remind you that things are not as simple as you may think.

You won't avoid government scrutiny by sending a 9999.99 USD wire or send 1,000 USD every day during 10 Days, Or send 1,000 then 2,000, then 1,000.... and so on on a very short period of time. While all of these are each time below the 10,0000 USD Mark, government official ALSO make sure to check the "total" amount of withdraws you made within a certain period of time.

We hope now that you better understand the situation and what's happening to your withdrawals.

Of course, publish (part of) private details on the forum... Also, those delays do not directly depend on us and we have no way to push for specific transfers. The good news is that we're almost over with this.

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July 09, 2012, 02:08:34 AM
 #55

Filing out a SAR or Form 8300 doesn't take 14-21 days.  Sorry.  It is utter BS that is your excuse.  

Six month ago wires were completed in 2 days and now it takes 21 days.  Did you forget how to fill out KYC AML paperwork?  

Furthermore the whole "it is a AML/KYC requirement" has titanic sized holes in it

A) In every delay customer support has been happy to cancel my withdrawal and let me take funds via another method (to include nearly untraceable bicoins).  If the funds were ACTUALLY held for AML investigation, assisting a customer with method to bypass the hold is CRIMINAL.  Period.   As in good way to spend next 10-20 years in a federal prison.  Once might be a mistake, but no way your staff is so utterly clueless on AML procedures to continually make the "mistake" of assisting your customers with methods to bypass an AML hold.

B) In every delay nobody ever contacts the customers.  There are no phone calls, no verification, no questions on the source of the funds.  Nothing.  Just complete silence and a long delay and then the funds go through.  The info you had on day 21 when funds are sent is the same info you had on day 1. 

C) The delay never goes away.  EVER large wire is delayed.  Even if somehow you were doing some investigating (which A&B make a insultingly stupid excuse) one would think that after 3, 4, 5, 10 wires eventually that customer could have funds deposited without delay.  Note I said without DELAY not without reporting.  Yes financial institutions have to file a SAR and 8300.  It takes all of 10 minutes to do.  Hell FinCEN makes it easy now, you can "efile" online.  The need to FILE can't explain why repeat withdraws are always DELAYED.

FILING =/= 21 day DELAY
REPORTING =/= 21 day DELAY
AML/KYC =/= 21 day DELAY
Following the law =/= 21 day DELAY

The process is always:
1) Make request
2) Wait 14-21 days (status "confirmed" = we haven't done shit because we don't have the money)
3) Day x (varies from 15 to 22 days) wire goes through.  No request for info, no verification, nothing.  Just a delay and then funds go though.

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July 09, 2012, 03:11:43 AM
 #56

But ... but ... It's all Dwolla's fault!  They are holding your money, even wire transfers!

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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July 09, 2012, 04:31:37 AM
 #57

But ... but ... It's all Dwolla's fault!  They are holding your money, even wire transfers!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87086.0

Point 5.

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July 09, 2012, 02:45:13 PM
 #58

But ... but ... It's all Dwolla's fault!  They are holding your money, even wire transfers!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87086.0

Point 5.
Doesn't explain anything.

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July 09, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
 #59

If running a legitimate poker website but managing people's deposits "fractional reserve" style is a "ponzi scheme", I hate to think of what it'll do to Bitcoin's reputation if MtGox ever comes to be described in the media as a ponzi scheme.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57465457-93/poker-site-ceo-arrested-in-multimillion-ponzi-scheme/

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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July 09, 2012, 06:25:54 PM
 #60

i did a withdraw on 6/26. Today is 7/9, still NOTHING in my dwolla account.
MtGox, I would like to know where's my money.

Trading MtGox USD for Dwolla/ACH deposit/Chase cash deposit
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