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Poll
Question: Choose the best and worst.
Gold
Human Slave
Plutonium
The Bitcoin Network
An IOU
Food and Water
Unspecified Bank Notes

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Author Topic: [POLL] What has the most potential value density?  (Read 2692 times)
Sukrim
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June 21, 2012, 12:24:04 AM
 #21

You can probably fit some digitized guarantees for more bank notes than the current BTC market cap on a microSD card... Roll Eyes

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June 21, 2012, 12:29:59 AM
 #22

You can probably fit some digitized guarantees for more bank notes than the current BTC market cap on a microSD card... Roll Eyes

Potential.

There is no way everything required for one billion US banker bucks to be delivered fits on an SD card. Totally possible for a billion dollar value string (bitcoin key) to fit on a tiny fraction of any card. And that is all you need. Ok, maybe you need the transaction prepping software, but that is small also and rather ubiquitous even now.

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June 21, 2012, 01:02:34 AM
 #23

I'm going to go ahead and state the obvious, that this is highly subjective.  The entire Bitcoin network has huge potential value density, but in order to measure it correctly you'd have to include all of the capital behind it.  Same goes for IOUs, bank notes, and gold.  Human slave is obviously the least valuable.

Potentially, plutonium could power a replicator that can create almost anything.  It wouldn't even have to be very big, smaller than a city block.  But an IOU could be used to trade, say, Dyson Spheres.  And the Bitcoin network might not be able to scale that large.  I imagine bank notes would not have much value at that scale, but that could be mistaken since they have in the past been used for, eg the Louisiana purchase.

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June 21, 2012, 01:30:13 AM
 #24

Question Fail !

How are the results to be interpreted when worst and best are in the same bucket ?
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June 21, 2012, 04:05:58 AM
 #25

Question Fail !

How are the results to be interpreted when worst and best are in the same bucket ?
The difference will show up in the distribution. This is an unconventional poll, because it shows no bias in the value density itself, only the perceived potential value desity of the highest and lowest. It will go to show which are most worth discussing. There are some pretty good arguments made for most of them so far.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 21, 2012, 05:52:47 AM
 #26


If I had all of the plutonium, properly packaged, I could demand all of your btc and slaves!

If someone got all of the water first, well, yeah.

If one had all of the human slaves in the world we'd just call them Apple.


edit

come to think of it wouldn't the most valuable things have the ultimate impact on life?  water...nukes...etc.

I think 'DNA' should be added to this poll.
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June 21, 2012, 07:28:45 AM
 #27

I chose Bitcoin first, because I can't think of a better medium to exchange and store value.  I chose plutonium second, because for everything we do, we need energy, and nuclear fission is one of the best sources.  I think the worst are bank notes, because they create the illusion of objective value.

IOUs?  You don't have to look farther than this community and GLBSE, that IOUs aren't reliable.  And they are a great tool for scams, just look at the Donation of Constantine (luke-jr will be offended).

Gold?  As I said posted many times, as soon as we start mining on asteroids, gold will stop being scarce.  And this is realizable with the technology we posses today.
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June 21, 2012, 03:57:13 PM
 #28

I chose Bitcoin first, because I can't think of a better medium to exchange and store value.  I chose plutonium second, because for everything we do, we need energy, and nuclear fission is one of the best sources.  I think the worst are bank notes, because they create the illusion of objective value.

IOUs?  You don't have to look farther than this community and GLBSE, that IOUs aren't reliable.  And they are a great tool for scams, just look at the Donation of Constantine (luke-jr will be offended).

Gold?  As I said posted many times, as soon as we start mining on asteroids, gold will stop being scarce.  And this is realizable with the technology we posses today.
As soon as we start mining on asteroids?
165,000 tons of gold has been mined already... what makes you think that we could bring back enough from asteroids to make a significant increase in that number?  The payload on rockets is in the range of tens or hundreds of tons.  Even the largest airplanes can only take on 100-200 tons - I can only imagine how limited the payload would be on a private spacecraft of some sort.

Sorry, I just don't see asteroid mining as making gold non-scarce.
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June 21, 2012, 08:24:31 PM
 #29

I chose Bitcoin first, because I can't think of a better medium to exchange and store value.  I chose plutonium second, because for everything we do, we need energy, and nuclear fission is one of the best sources.  I think the worst are bank notes, because they create the illusion of objective value.

IOUs?  You don't have to look farther than this community and GLBSE, that IOUs aren't reliable.  And they are a great tool for scams, just look at the Donation of Constantine (luke-jr will be offended).

Gold?  As I said posted many times, as soon as we start mining on asteroids, gold will stop being scarce.  And this is realizable with the technology we posses today.

Asteroid mining ? Just as realistic as IXC going mainstream ...
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June 22, 2012, 01:15:01 AM
 #30

Asteroid mining is very feasible. You don't need to to load it into a ship, you only need to get it to the moon and start processing it there. Just strap a rocket on a chunk of roid that has rich veins and aim it at the moon. Then you can use disposable re-entry vehicles to get the refined minerals to Earth.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 22, 2012, 04:44:20 AM
 #31

So far we have:
The Bitcoin Network    - 38 (33.9%)
Human Slave    - 24 (21.4%)
Food and Water    - 16 (14.3%)
Plutonium    - 11 (9.8%)
An IOU    - 10 (8.9%)
Unspecified Bank Notes    - 7 (6.3%)
Gold    - 6 (5.4%)

The Bitcoin Network and Human Slave have either the best or worst potential value density. Food and Water and Plutonium are the next best or worst. Then you have the three most commonly used forms of money as the bottom three best or worst potential value density.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 22, 2012, 05:44:16 AM
 #32

potential value density...... the fuck. Well - an IOU could cover all of those and more, and there's potential for a fellow to honor his commitments even when doing so results in his death, so if we're going only for potential - that seems to be the obvious choice. Lowest potential? Plutonium or gold, I guess. Plutonium could be worth a lot, but certainly never more than food and water, except in cases where priorities are totally fucked, which is a proven possibility -- I guess plutonium can be thrown out, leaving gold, which is the only true luxury resource listed (ETA: that's not true, I guess - and, you know... maybe God would cut you a deal where if you bring him 6oz of gold, he'll give you his powers) -- but I could think of absurd scenarios where it's the only electricity-conducting element/alloy left, and you need to connect two devices together to save Earth or something... A human slave could be extremely valuable, since we're going for potential -- could be anybody...

I guess since we can make our own... worst would be... Idunno.... small quantities of dolomite. Best... being God?

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June 22, 2012, 09:48:44 AM
 #33

Which is exactly why Bitcoin is the most valuable per density.  You can fit all the Bitcoin wealth in the world on a microSD card.
After you load all of the Bitcoins on it, eat it and tell me how filling it is. Cheesy

37% of US city drinking water is privatized already. That means corporations will be dictating price, quality, and how much water you get once they own it all. 37% is now and will only get worse every year. By 2020 all water will be privatized. If they can limit how much water you can access they can limit how much food you can grow to be self sustaining.

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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June 22, 2012, 12:27:51 PM
 #34

potential value density...... the fuck. Well - an IOU could cover all of those and more, and there's potential for a fellow to honor his commitments even when doing so results in his death, so if we're going only for potential - that seems to be the obvious choice. Lowest potential? Plutonium or gold, I guess. Plutonium could be worth a lot, but certainly never more than food and water, except in cases where priorities are totally fucked, which is a proven possibility -- I guess plutonium can be thrown out, leaving gold, which is the only true luxury resource listed (ETA: that's not true, I guess - and, you know... maybe God would cut you a deal where if you bring him 6oz of gold, he'll give you his powers) -- but I could think of absurd scenarios where it's the only electricity-conducting element/alloy left, and you need to connect two devices together to save Earth or something... A human slave could be extremely valuable, since we're going for potential -- could be anybody...

I guess since we can make our own... worst would be... Idunno.... small quantities of dolomite. Best... being God?
You want to be God or use God for storing value? I'm not sure if you are serious about that. Actually, I chose things that have actually been historically considered highly negotiable. I almost considered obsidian, because it is somewhat scarce and I think it may one day again become highly sought, this time for scientific uses. But that's just my whimsy.

BTW, absurd scenarios are always worth considering if they have historical significance.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 22, 2012, 01:31:10 PM
 #35

Human slave ... Satoshi Nakamoto and Billy Gates Cheesy

Best of fiat and BTC !
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June 22, 2012, 01:52:29 PM
 #36

I forget which book it was, but Michael Crichton once wrote that the highest value density item was bioengineered medical drugs, which could have incredibly high value for just a number of cells.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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June 22, 2012, 07:41:25 PM
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potential value density...... the fuck. Well - an IOU could cover all of those and more, and there's potential for a fellow to honor his commitments even when doing so results in his death, so if we're going only for potential - that seems to be the obvious choice. Lowest potential? Plutonium or gold, I guess. Plutonium could be worth a lot, but certainly never more than food and water, except in cases where priorities are totally fucked, which is a proven possibility -- I guess plutonium can be thrown out, leaving gold, which is the only true luxury resource listed (ETA: that's not true, I guess - and, you know... maybe God would cut you a deal where if you bring him 6oz of gold, he'll give you his powers) -- but I could think of absurd scenarios where it's the only electricity-conducting element/alloy left, and you need to connect two devices together to save Earth or something... A human slave could be extremely valuable, since we're going for potential -- could be anybody...

I guess since we can make our own... worst would be... Idunno.... small quantities of dolomite. Best... being God?
You want to be God or use God for storing value? I'm not sure if you are serious about that. Actually, I chose things that have actually been historically considered highly negotiable. I almost considered obsidian, because it is somewhat scarce and I think it may one day again become highly sought, this time for scientific uses. But that's just my whimsy.

BTW, absurd scenarios are always worth considering if they have historical significance.
Godly powers would likely have the ability to provide everything listed and much more (and unlike an IOU, can provide the ability-holder to produce whatever he pleases on-demand without needing to abide by a contract), and perhaps could be contained in as small a vessel as a human being. I imagine it being, by far, the most value-dense. "God" couldn't really be used as a store of value unless He suddenly decided not to enforce His will. Well.... OTOH, I guess God provides his blessings upon his subjects when they meet certain conditions........... Anyway -- yeah, consider it like an education or Cheney's metal heart, adding value to self.

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June 22, 2012, 09:16:40 PM
 #38

potential value density...... the fuck. Well - an IOU could cover all of those and more, and there's potential for a fellow to honor his commitments even when doing so results in his death, so if we're going only for potential - that seems to be the obvious choice. Lowest potential? Plutonium or gold, I guess. Plutonium could be worth a lot, but certainly never more than food and water, except in cases where priorities are totally fucked, which is a proven possibility -- I guess plutonium can be thrown out, leaving gold, which is the only true luxury resource listed (ETA: that's not true, I guess - and, you know... maybe God would cut you a deal where if you bring him 6oz of gold, he'll give you his powers) -- but I could think of absurd scenarios where it's the only electricity-conducting element/alloy left, and you need to connect two devices together to save Earth or something... A human slave could be extremely valuable, since we're going for potential -- could be anybody...

I guess since we can make our own... worst would be... Idunno.... small quantities of dolomite. Best... being God?
You want to be God or use God for storing value? I'm not sure if you are serious about that. Actually, I chose things that have actually been historically considered highly negotiable. I almost considered obsidian, because it is somewhat scarce and I think it may one day again become highly sought, this time for scientific uses. But that's just my whimsy.

BTW, absurd scenarios are always worth considering if they have historical significance.
Godly powers would likely have the ability to provide everything listed and much more (and unlike an IOU, can provide the ability-holder to produce whatever he pleases on-demand without needing to abide by a contract), and perhaps could be contained in as small a vessel as a human being. I imagine it being, by far, the most value-dense. "God" couldn't really be used as a store of value unless He suddenly decided not to enforce His will. Well.... OTOH, I guess God provides his blessings upon his subjects when they meet certain conditions........... Anyway -- yeah, consider it like an education or Cheney's metal heart, adding value to self.
Ah yes, Godly powers. Are you talking about divinity or religion? Are we talking about trading relics or actually throwing lightning bolts? I know we can smite pretty much anything with plutonium nowadays.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 23, 2012, 12:34:01 AM
 #39

potential value density...... the fuck. Well - an IOU could cover all of those and more, and there's potential for a fellow to honor his commitments even when doing so results in his death, so if we're going only for potential - that seems to be the obvious choice. Lowest potential? Plutonium or gold, I guess. Plutonium could be worth a lot, but certainly never more than food and water, except in cases where priorities are totally fucked, which is a proven possibility -- I guess plutonium can be thrown out, leaving gold, which is the only true luxury resource listed (ETA: that's not true, I guess - and, you know... maybe God would cut you a deal where if you bring him 6oz of gold, he'll give you his powers) -- but I could think of absurd scenarios where it's the only electricity-conducting element/alloy left, and you need to connect two devices together to save Earth or something... A human slave could be extremely valuable, since we're going for potential -- could be anybody...

I guess since we can make our own... worst would be... Idunno.... small quantities of dolomite. Best... being God?
You want to be God or use God for storing value? I'm not sure if you are serious about that. Actually, I chose things that have actually been historically considered highly negotiable. I almost considered obsidian, because it is somewhat scarce and I think it may one day again become highly sought, this time for scientific uses. But that's just my whimsy.

BTW, absurd scenarios are always worth considering if they have historical significance.
Godly powers would likely have the ability to provide everything listed and much more (and unlike an IOU, can provide the ability-holder to produce whatever he pleases on-demand without needing to abide by a contract), and perhaps could be contained in as small a vessel as a human being. I imagine it being, by far, the most value-dense. "God" couldn't really be used as a store of value unless He suddenly decided not to enforce His will. Well.... OTOH, I guess God provides his blessings upon his subjects when they meet certain conditions........... Anyway -- yeah, consider it like an education or Cheney's metal heart, adding value to self.
Ah yes, Godly powers. Are you talking about divinity or religion? Are we talking about trading relics or actually throwing lightning bolts? I know we can smite pretty much anything with plutonium nowadays.
Plutonium requires large facilities, skilled human slaves employees, or selling to some crackpot dictator. Lightning bolts.... I can shoot those at anyone I please. No cost, high-precision, and produces electricity. World peace, respected dictatorship, and as many virgins worshipers following my abstinence mandate as I please. Idunno -- what kind of relics do the different religions have? I mean -- that could be cool, too. I think the Jews had some type of fancy sand->bread machine after the Moses thing, Christians have the relic of Reagan politics getting the Baptists out of their fatalist political apathy and into a tizzy over abortion no politician would dare criminalize and give up as a tool, and Muslims have..... ..... Idunno.... libraries? I think they have some cloak of Mohammed the Taliban control to claim divine authority, but I don't believe it has any supernatural powers. Undecided Mormons have that bitchin' special underwear and that highly-convincing video about celestial sex.... Then Scientologists have a spaceship in a volcano or something cool.

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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June 23, 2012, 12:55:06 AM
 #40

Lightning bolts.... I can shoot those at anyone I please. No cost, high-precision, and produces electricity. World peace, respected dictatorship, and as many virgins worshipers following my abstinence mandate as I please.
Looks like we have the son of Cronus himself in out forum.  Grin

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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