Send funds for bitcoins by email thru Bank of America

[BADecker]

You can send funds to pay for bitcoins by email through Bank of America if you and the the bitcoin seller both have an account at BofA. I don't have any details about fees or requirements. If BofA has it, other banks probably do as well.

1. Find a bitcoin seller (buyer) who has a BofA account like you do;
2. Make a private agreement through separate email accounts to trade funds for bitcoins;
3. Send (receive) cash by email;
4. Receive (send) bitcoins wallet to wallet as usual.

Is anyone familiar with this process? Does BofA charge big fees? I would think that Local Bitcoins (https://localbitcoins.com/) buyers and sellers could simplify their processes with this.

Any ideas?

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[DannyHamilton]

You can send funds to pay for bitcoins by email through Bank of America if you and the the bitcoin seller both have an account at BofA. I don't have any details about fees or requirements. If BofA has it, other banks probably do as well.

1. Find a bitcoin seller (buyer) who has a BofA account like you do;
2. Make a private agreement through separate email accounts to trade funds for bitcoins;
3. Send (receive) cash by email;
4. Receive (send) bitcoins wallet to wallet as usual.

Is anyone familiar with this process? Does BofA charge big fees? I would think that Local Bitcoins (https://localbitcoins.com/) buyers and sellers could simplify their processes with this.

Any ideas?

This is a horrible idea.

Payment through email is easily reversible.  All a scammer has to do is call up the bank and dispute the payment.  The bank will then take back the funds from the person that received them and return them to the scammer.  Meanwhile the bitcoin transaction is not reversible.  This means that the person selling the bitcoins has lost the bitcoins and received no payment for them.  This is just as risky as accepting a personal check for the bitcoins (where the scammer could call the bank and stop payment on the check).

The only time you should ever exchange a reversible form of payment for an irreversible form of payment is:

• If you already have a significant trust relationship with the person making the reversible payment or
• If you have priced the risk into the cost of the exchange or
• If you have a reliable method of enforcing payment.

[ChuckBuck]

Isn't this a similar process to the "Cash Deposit" option in LocalBitcoins already?

I mean you can do to without LBC as an intermediary, but you risk getting scammed if you're the buyer, and if you send first without a trusted middle man or escrow.

[DannyHamilton]

Isn't this a similar process to the "Cash Deposit" option in LocalBitcoins already?

No.

Cash deposit is not reversible.  If I make a cash deposit, and then you send me bitcoins, I cannot go back to the bank and ask for the cash back.  They won't give it to me.

This is more like "PayPal" or "National bank transfer" on localbitcoins.

[BADecker]

You can send funds to pay for bitcoins by email through Bank of America if you and the the bitcoin seller both have an account at BofA. I don't have any details about fees or requirements. If BofA has it, other banks probably do as well.

1. Find a bitcoin seller (buyer) who has a BofA account like you do;
2. Make a private agreement through separate email accounts to trade funds for bitcoins;
3. Send (receive) cash by email;
4. Receive (send) bitcoins wallet to wallet as usual.

Is anyone familiar with this process? Does BofA charge big fees? I would think that Local Bitcoins (https://localbitcoins.com/) buyers and sellers could simplify their processes with this.

Any ideas?

This is a horrible idea.

Payment through email is easily reversible.  All a scammer has to do is call up the bank and dispute the payment.  The bank will then take back the funds from the person that received them and return them to the scammer.  Meanwhile the bitcoin transaction is not reversible.  This means that the person selling the bitcoins has lost the bitcoins and received no payment for them.  This is just as risky as accepting a personal check for the bitcoins (where the scammer could call the bank and stop payment on the check).

The only time you should ever exchange a reversible form of payment for an irreversible form of payment is:

• If you already have a significant trust relationship with the person making the reversible payment or
• If you have priced the risk into the cost of the exchange or
• If you have a reliable method of enforcing payment.

Okay, so now we need a trust feature on both ends. After all, if you make a cash deposit, how are you going to be certain that the bitcoin seller is going to send you your coins? We are at a halfway trust position using Local Bitcoins as it is. There should be a way to go the other half of the trust using a bank account.

[BADecker]

Isn't this a similar process to the "Cash Deposit" option in LocalBitcoins already?

No.

Cash deposit is not reversible.  If I make a cash deposit, and then you send me bitcoins, I cannot go back to the bank and ask for the cash back.  They won't give it to me.

This is more like "PayPal" or "National bank transfer" on localbitcoins.

The advantage for using a send cash by email process is, if you don't have a bank in your location, you can still do the trade as long as there is an Internet connection. In other words, you could do the trade from a foreign country that has Internet, but doesn't have a branch of BofA or whatever bank you use. In fact, the both of you could be in different foreign countries, as long as the Internet is there.

[DannyHamilton]

Okay, so now we need a trust feature on both ends. After all, if you make a cash deposit, how are you going to be certain that the bitcoin seller is going to send you your coins? We are at a halfway trust position using Local Bitcoins as it is. There should be a way to go the other half of the trust using a bank account.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

If you use localbitcoins, then localbitcoins holds the bitcoins so that the bitcoin seller can't run off with them.  After you make the cash deposit, the seller should release the bitcoins to you.  If they refuse to do so, then you can file a complaint with localbitcoins.  As long as you can satisfactorily prove to localbitcoins that you made the deposit, they will release the bitcoins to you without the permission of the bitcoin seller.

If you don't trust localbitcoins, then you'll need to find someone else that both the buyer and the seller trust.  If you are going to exchange fiat value (or much of anything else in the physical world) for bitcoins, then either one of you will need to trust the other, or you'll need to find an independent third party that you both trust.

The problem with reversible payment methods is that even if you find an independent third party that you both trust, the scammer can reverse the payment at a later time (after the bitcoins have been released).  With PayPal and credit cards this can be months later.  There aren't many people that are willing to wait for months after they've paid to receive their bitcoins from the independent third party.  With personal checks and bank transfers, it is likely to be several weeks at least before the sender can no longer reverse the payment.

[ChuckBuck]

Isn't this a similar process to the "Cash Deposit" option in LocalBitcoins already?

No.

Cash deposit is not reversible.  If I make a cash deposit, and then you send me bitcoins, I cannot go back to the bank and ask for the cash back.  They won't give it to me.

This is more like "PayPal" or "National bank transfer" on localbitcoins.

I mean instead of going to/through a bank cash deposit in person at a teller or online, why can't you just use LocalBitcoins to do the transaction instead?

Seems alot of safer with their built in escrow service:

https://localbitcoins.com/guides/security#toc1

[DannyHamilton]

I mean instead of going to/through a bank cash deposit in person at a teller or online, why can't you just use LocalBitcoins to do the transaction instead?

Seems alot of safer with their built in escrow service:

https://localbitcoins.com/guides/security#toc1

Yes, escrow protects the bitcoin buyer so that the bitcoin seller can't run off with the bitcoins after the payment has been made.

However, the bitcoin buyer still needs to make a payment.  Therefore they still need to go "to/through a bank cash deposit in person at a teller".  Localbitcoins doesn't eliminate the need to pay for the bitcoins that you are buying.

[BADecker]

Okay, so now we need a trust feature on both ends. After all, if you make a cash deposit, how are you going to be certain that the bitcoin seller is going to send you your coins? We are at a halfway trust position using Local Bitcoins as it is. There should be a way to go the other half of the trust using a bank account.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

If you use localbitcoins, then localbitcoins holds the bitcoins so that the bitcoin seller can't run off with them.  After you make the cash deposit, the seller should release the bitcoins to you.  If they refuse to do so, then you can file a complaint with localbitcoins.  As long as you can satisfactorily prove to localbitcoins that you made the deposit, they will release the bitcoins to you without the permission of the bitcoin seller.

If you don't trust localbitcoins, then you'll need to find someone else that both the buyer and the seller trust.  If you are going to exchange fiat value (or much of anything else in the physical world) for bitcoins, then either one of you will need to trust the other, or you'll need to find an independent third party that you both trust.

The problem with reversible payment methods is that even if you find an independent third party that you both trust, the scammer can reverse the payment at a later time (after the bitcoins have been released).  With PayPal and credit cards this can be months later.  There aren't many people that are willing to wait for months after they've paid to receive their bitcoins from the independent third party.  With personal checks and bank transfers, it is likely to be several weeks at least before the sender can no longer reverse the payment.

I didn't realize this about LocalBitcoins.

So, now a bitcoin seller would need two BofA accounts, and immediately do a transfer to the other account so that there aren't any funds in his bitcoin selling account. Would this be a feasible idea? If there was a reverse payment by anyone, the funds lost would be small until the bank could figure the whole thing out.

I know. Lots of hassle. But ease from the other direction.

[DannyHamilton]

I didn't realize this about LocalBitcoins.

So, now a bitcoin seller would need two BofA accounts, and immediately do a transfer to the other account so that there aren't any funds in his bitcoin selling account. Would this be a feasible idea? If there was a reverse payment by anyone, the funds lost would be small until the bank could figure the whole thing out.

I know. Lots of hassle. But ease from the other direction.

I'm not sure how the bank would handle that situation.  You can either try it and see, or ask the bank how they would handle it.

I suspect that at best the bank will easily trace the money and transfer it back, and at worst you will be charged with fraud and prosecuted.

[BADecker]

I didn't realize this about LocalBitcoins.

So, now a bitcoin seller would need two BofA accounts, and immediately do a transfer to the other account so that there aren't any funds in his bitcoin selling account. Would this be a feasible idea? If there was a reverse payment by anyone, the funds lost would be small until the bank could figure the whole thing out.

I know. Lots of hassle. But ease from the other direction.

I'm not sure how the bank would handle that situation.  You can either try it and see, or ask the bank how they would handle it.

I suspect that at best the bank will easily trace the money and transfer it back, and at worst you will be charged with fraud and prosecuted.

Thank you.

The fraud part can be initiated at any time as it is. Suppose someone reversed a bank transaction after you shut down the account. Can the bitcoin transfer be proven either way by either side? No (I would think). So where would the case be either way? One affidavit against another.



EDIT: Would LocalBitcoins get into the fray to show that they had actually made the escrow transfer?

[Bitcoins101]

Isn't this a similar process to the "Cash Deposit" option in LocalBitcoins already?

No.

Cash deposit is not reversible.  If I make a cash deposit, and then you send me bitcoins, I cannot go back to the bank and ask for the cash back.  They won't give it to me.

This is more like "PayPal" or "National bank transfer" on localbitcoins.

Actually, they might. Cash reversal scams are extremely common on LocalBitcoins - just search their forums. It's more challenging than just reversing a transfer (it requires human interaction and social skills), but it's still very reversible. It's wise to wait until the bank closes to send someone untrustworthy their BTC.