ASICMiner BE300S Samples Arrived, <0.2W/G Achieved at Board Level

[klondike_bar]

- Spondoolies Tech 0.05W/G mid 2015
- KnCMiner 16nm 0.07W/G early 2015
- Cointerra 16nm 5X (?) Q1 2015 (5X refers to their TerraMiner IV I guess)
- Bitfury sub-0.1J/G mid-year 2015

When i will see intel and amd have a mature desktop cpu at 14nm, then! and only then i will believe those numbers!

The smaller we go the harder it is!

Just a shot in the dark:  under .1w/g in 2016!

I think it will happen in 2015.

It will likely be possible, but being possible and being the shipping clocks for a product is another thing. Maybe we will see both, maybe just one.

My money is on Bitfury and SP-Tech

+1. Bitfury was doing extremely good numbers (~1w/GH) on 55nm in the first version, and improved that by about 15% in the 55nm//Rev2. undervolting allows something around 0.85w/gh on those chips.

a 28nm chip with exact same design is theoretically capable of almost 4x the efficiency. that would achieve around 0.2w/gh on an underclocked chip. 20nm would achieve around 0.1w/GH with slight underclocking I expect. implementing improvements like chained power distribution or perhaps larger die sizes could also improve on the numbers.

(in contrast, the Bitmain 55nm chip from the S1 is not much different. 2w/GH at full steam, but with a bottom value of about 0.9w/GH if undervolted to about 40% of the full speed. Thier 28nm chips (S3 and S5) are capable of 0.5-0.8w/GH and 0.25-0.6w/GH power ranges also - clearly showing the improvements found by thier 28nm//Rev2 chip in the S5)

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[RoadStress]

Yep...anyway this thread is about ASICMiner not SP 

AM is shy to present us their 24 chip board.

[pak13]

- Spondoolies Tech 0.05W/G mid 2015
- KnCMiner 16nm 0.07W/G early 2015
- Cointerra 16nm 5X (?) Q1 2015 (5X refers to their TerraMiner IV I guess)
- Bitfury sub-0.1J/G mid-year 2015

When i will see intel and amd have a mature desktop cpu at 14nm, then! and only then i will believe those numbers!

The smaller we go the harder it is!

Just a shot in the dark:  under .1w/g in 2016!

I think it will happen in 2015.

It will likely be possible, but being possible and being the shipping clocks for a product is another thing. Maybe we will see both, maybe just one.

My money is on Bitfury and SP-Tech

I concur. SP is the most transparent for both upcoming tech, support and refund policies. They continue to keep the industry notified and always respond usually within 24 hours to anyone's comment.

Whilst other competition is coming along nicely, they aren't transparent and simply don't communicate keeping us up to date. We get an email once a week if we're lucky, usually once every 14 days or so. This level of communication isn't satisfactory in today's highly competitive market.

If AM could either hire additional staff, or devote more time themselves, that could answer our questions, openly and in a timely manner, then they are likely to receive a warmer following and brighter future. SP is the leading example in all these areas. Bitmain towards the top, now falling like a stone. AM whatever you do, don't follow bitmain's example, rise above, communicate with us and show us what you can offer.

 

[Felipeo]

Only one question. Samples?
You didn't provide any previously. That ended with two designs only, one foulty as hell. Maybe this time?

We will see if we can allocate some from the sample batch. The problem with MPW is that we only got
100 chips in hand and we need at least a large part of them for chip-wise variance testing.

I'm not saying that you should provide samples now (but it would be great)

Only one question. Samples?

beggars everywhere  i don't want a sample, i just want to see if they make specs.

Who said that I want it free? I wanted to design a miner with a BE200 and pay premium price for a small batch of sample chips (lets say 10pcs). But no response from AM. How it ended to AM we already know. Only 3 designs and troubles with selling those chips...

+1

I'm also interested in some samples, will check usability BE300 for USB dongles

[Felipeo]

10Gh USB miner? Maybe?

As an aside: both the hex•fury and the NanoFury 6 already do 10Gh/s+.
I'd certainly welcome another addition, though

One that did 40GH to 50GH at a reasonable cost and power level would be nice! 

About USB miners -

Bi•fury use 1A for ~5GH/s - USB 3.0 or powered hub needed
Hex•fury use 2A for +10GH/s - strong powered hub needed

USB 2.0 will deliver 0.5A on 5V = 2.5 W
USB 3.0 will deliver 0.9-1A on 5V = 4.5-5.0 W (especially in PC, not all notebook/laptop USB 3.0 will deliver 1A)

One BE300S chip deliver ~7.2 GH/s = ~1.8W

According to USB power we can use:
1.39 Chip on USB 2.0 = ~7.2 GH/s with 1 chip, ~10 GH/s with 2 chips.
2.78 Chip on USB 3.0 = ~10 GH/s with 2 chips, ~15.6 GH/s with 3 chips.


That look nice, and according to string design we can save some on BOM,
BUT according to new information about FCLGA - PCB and heatsink cost can pass out "reasonable" cost of USB miner on BE300 (not count AM itself of course)

[sidehack]

PCB and heatsink aren't much more difficult if you put a bit of work into it. Heatsink on top of chips is not really any harder to accomplish than heatsink on top of board. Just stick your ASICs on the backside, control hardware on the top side; grease your chips, sink the backside and screw to it through the board.

[Dexter770221]

For a string design to work AM have PMS01 chip. Without that chip string design is impossible(?) or more complicated if you want to replace that chip with avaivable IC parts. Either way string design on USB stick is like firing to fly with big gun...

[Felipeo]

PCB and heatsink aren't much more difficult if you put a bit of work into it. Heatsink on top of chips is not really any harder to accomplish than heatsink on top of board. Just stick your ASICs on the backside, control hardware on the top side; grease your chips, sink the backside and screw to it through the board.

Yep, there are some options, that why I ask about samples, all other we will see

For a string design to work AM have PMS01 chip. Without that chip string design is impossible(?) or more complicated if you want to replace that chip with avaivable IC parts. Either way string design on USB stick is like firing to fly with big gun...

Will check, and talk about this Dex

[MrTeal]

How would you run a string design? If you want to avoid DC/DC altogether you'd need 8-9 chips to get the 5V down to 0.55V or so. I'm not sure how you'd get away from DC/DC on a USB miner.

[sidehack]

Depending how many you want to string, it might not be too bad. But stringing works best if you can divide the rail voltage, which for 5V means more chips than he's talking, so you'd need to build a VRM anyway. At that point it's much easier to just kick the voltage down to single-chip level and run several chips in parallel, standard topology.

Pretty sure the NF6 is strung chips, but it's also (as noted above) a very high current requirement. Not caring about standard USB port current limits changes the ballgame.



Also, he beat me to the punch but MrTeal is pretty much always right.

[TheRealSteve]

USB 2.0 will deliver 0.5A on 5V = 2.5 W
USB 3.0 will deliver 0.9-1A on 5V = 4.5-5.0 W (especially in PC, not all notebook/laptop USB 3.0 will deliver 1A)

As a complete and utter aside - note that these specifications are usually per port.  Old portable 2.5" HDDs and optical drives would often include a split cable with one end of the Y-split being power+data, and the other just power, allowing a second USB port to deliver the extra oomph needed for the optical drive / HDD spin-up.
( Looks like most current external HDDs no longer use extra power, and some optical drives seem to come with a USB-USB cable and a USB-barrel cable )
I'd certainly view a USB miner that used shenanigans like that as still being a USB miner.  Might have to draw the line at utilizing 4 ports, though

[Swimmer63]

Nanofury 6's using the rev.2 bitfury chip already achieved 15gh/s.
It might be a fun project but I don't see a market.  I produced 100 of these and while we sold out, they did not go fast. That was 6 months ago.
I think you need to achieve 75-100 ghs to have anything marketable.

[sidehack]

I've got several NF6 in the museum, not sure if they're Rev2 chips or not (USB miners is more novak's project). Swimmer, you built miners? Nice. We should talk sometime.

[Swimmer63]

I've got several NF6 in the museum, not sure if they're Rev2 chips or not (USB miners is more novak's project). Swimmer, you built miners? Nice. We should talk sometime.

I'm was not the tech guy sidehack. Vs3 handled the designs. I just managed the build and did all the sales. USB miners were big business for 8-12 months. Love to figure out a way to bring them back.
But with difficulty now they would have to be able to do 8 times what they did.
The guys that bought them usually got 5-10. Folks that could not get away with spending much or having a small jet engine in their home or office. Still a big market there if we can figure out a simple, cool, small form factor that will do 75-100 ghs.  Still have the website setup.

[sidehack]

Novak and I are toying with the idea of a configurable USB-connected single-board miner for BE300 chips, something that could run off a DC brick (or better PSU, it'd have a barrel and screw terminals) with full under/overclocking options from the command line. Basically the Jalapeno market sector, except with tomorrow's power efficiency. Drop me a line if you think there's merit.

[dogie]

USB 2.0 will deliver 0.5A on 5V = 2.5 W
USB 3.0 will deliver 0.9-1A on 5V = 4.5-5.0 W (especially in PC, not all notebook/laptop USB 3.0 will deliver 1A)

Just be careful about assuming 3.0 can do high numbers. Even if a single port can, it doesn't mean the array of ports / other electronics or even the PSU can take many many maxed out 3.0 ports. If you tell a consumer that it will work fine on USB 3.0, they'll assume that if one works then they can put 6 in.

Even the 'big' PSUs like the CX750M only have 25A on the 5V rail, of which a proportion will be taken up with other components.

[Felipeo]

How would you run a string design? If you want to avoid DC/DC altogether you'd need 8-9 chips to get the 5V down to 0.55V or so. I'm not sure how you'd get away from DC/DC on a USB miner.

I'm not a EC designer so I can't answer now, If it is possible and how, especially because I'm not work with any string able chips beside BF.

I was working with Intron and C-scape, they make first string design on BF chips - OSM.
Next they propose me to produce extended version of Bi•Fury - Hex•Fury and that was first ever dongle USB Miner with string design, on 6 BF chips.
(I'm not sure but I'm think that design of NF6 is familiar).

But I want to produce product especially for "miner wannabe" market(like Bi•Fury), that why I stick to USB dongle design, taking max from USB spec draw.
This kind market customers don't want use special DIY hubs for power it and etc.

Since BF I don't see any chips for simple, low cost USB device that can give this kind of customers some scratch's of BTC form there "miner fun game".

But producers going down with power draw (Yes I aware about high current) so I'm still searching, asking etc.


Finalizing this "My story" speech I have proposition for all You EC designers:
If You can deliver some kind of design on any producer chip that suit market needs I describe, I can take all production operations(finance-production-sell) on me
[Interested in co-op? drop me a PM]

USB 2.0 will deliver 0.5A on 5V = 2.5 W
USB 3.0 will deliver 0.9-1A on 5V = 4.5-5.0 W (especially in PC, not all notebook/laptop USB 3.0 will deliver 1A)

Just be careful about assuming 3.0 can do high numbers. Even if a single port can, it doesn't mean the array of ports / other electronics or even the PSU can take many many maxed out 3.0 ports. If you tell a consumer that it will work fine on USB 3.0, they'll assume that if one works then they can put 6 in.

Even the 'big' PSUs like the CX750M only have 25A on the 5V rail, of which a proportion will be taken up with other components.

Yes I'm aware of all this this dogie, since Bi•Fury I had 1k+ working USB ports under control for testing devices.
Many HUBs models, OS and hardware setups(mobo, PSU etc.) that can get stable max form Bi•Fury.

That why I know that this kind of information You mention above, need to be placed in product describe for customer awareness.


[FC sorry for little off topic here, and still waiting for more information about test ]

[hdbuck]

so? no news good news?
FC last logged in today.

[Dexter770221]

so? no news good news?
FC late login today.

It would be nice to hear some word from FC, atleast we would know that he didn't died at "drawing board"
We know that sample chips works better than expected, string design also works, so propably next news will be announcment of new product. Prisma 3.0?

[tutorialevideo]

so? no news good news?
FC late login today.

It would be nice to hear some word from FC, atleast we would know that he didn't died at "drawing board"
We know that sample chips works better than expected, string design also works, so propably next news will be announcment of new product. Prisma 3.0?

The expected date of first batch is April 10 to April 30. Potential delay will be notified three months ahead.
Hashrate per device and power consumption:
  Normal mode - 1.0TH/s guaranteed. 1.6TH/s maximum. 0.25-0.27W/G.
  Turbo mode - 1.2TH/s guaranteed. 2.0TH/s maximum. 0.30-0.33W/G.

this is a update