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Author Topic: Mtgox Euro bank problems  (Read 2878 times)
Herodes
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June 22, 2012, 08:47:04 AM
 #21

Yes, bank account DO get blocked when they receive fradulent transactions.

There are several methods by which unscrupulous individuals can initiate fradulent transactions and cause problems for an exchange or a fixed rate exhanger.

I think one of the dumbest things an exchange can do is to just open a single account, and then let all funds flow in through this account. There should be several bank accounts for one exchange, and there needs to be done measures to try to fight the fraud, some sorts of fraud is very hard to fight, and once the bank sees that fraudulent transactions is entering a particular account, they're often very quick to just close that account. As far as the bank sees it, this is a troublesome account, and they want to get rid of the problem.

When an exchange opens a bank account, by default, it has to be expected it will be closed down at some point, unless there are talks with the bank and the bank understand the kind of business the exchange do and is willing to work with it, also when problems occur, because problems WILL occur.

Banks can always reverse a transfer, but bitcoin transactions cannot be reversed, so it's always the exchange or the fixed rate exchanger that gets shafted.
The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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BTCurious
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June 22, 2012, 09:20:27 AM
 #22

SEPA debit transactions cannot be reversed either. And yes, exchanges do talk to banks, and switch banks when those talks amount to nothing.
The current issues seem to be only with the Dutch ING branch though.

Grouver (BtcBalance)
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June 22, 2012, 09:22:44 AM
 #23

Removed the [URGENT] tag.  Roll Eyes

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June 23, 2012, 03:28:52 PM
 #24

Same thing with some large German bank. Someone wanted to buy some bitcoins and I told him to send EUR to that Polish account, then his bank told him that they wouldnt know that Polish account. (?!)

I hope MtGox gets a new one soon!
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June 23, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
 #25

Removed the [URGENT] tag.  Roll Eyes

Replace it with a [FRAUDSTERS] tag  Wink

Herodes
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June 23, 2012, 04:32:43 PM
 #26

SEPA debit transactions cannot be reversed either.

And what happens in the cases were fradulent transactions have taken place ? Will the banks reinstate the unlucky consumer from their own pocket, or will the bank of the orginating transaction make a reversal of the transaction ?

Ie. what happens in real life, when we have a situation like this ? Anyone with experience they'd like to share ?
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June 23, 2012, 06:52:32 PM
 #27

SEPA debit transactions cannot be reversed either.

And what happens in the cases were fradulent transactions have taken place ? Will the banks reinstate the unlucky consumer from their own pocket, or will the bank of the orginating transaction make a reversal of the transaction ?

Ie. what happens in real life, when we have a situation like this ? Anyone with experience they'd like to share ?
They can't be automatically reversed, not even by the bank. The sending bank can ask the receiving bank for their money back. It's probably up to the receiving bank to honor that request or not. I know of one instance where the receiving bank asked the account holder about it, and the account holder convinced the bank that it wasn't fraudulent, so the receiving bank didn't give the money back. The sending bank may have insurance against these cases. The sending bank may then be pissed about it, and maybe won't send money to the receiving bank anymore.

Herodes
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June 23, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
 #28

SEPA debit transactions cannot be reversed either.

And what happens in the cases were fradulent transactions have taken place ? Will the banks reinstate the unlucky consumer from their own pocket, or will the bank of the orginating transaction make a reversal of the transaction ?

Ie. what happens in real life, when we have a situation like this ? Anyone with experience they'd like to share ?
They can't be automatically reversed, not even by the bank. The sending bank can ask the receiving bank for their money back. It's probably up to the receiving bank to honor that request or not. I know of one instance where the receiving bank asked the account holder about it, and the account holder convinced the bank that it wasn't fraudulent, so the receiving bank didn't give the money back. The sending bank may have insurance against these cases. The sending bank may then be pissed about it, and maybe won't send money to the receiving bank anymore.

Thanks for the explanation. I will see if I can find any whitepapers about SEPA to learn more about it.
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June 27, 2012, 08:49:44 AM
 #29

Hello,

18 June 2012 I transfered 100 euros to my Mtgox EUR account.
Today I got a letter from my bank wich said that I recently made a transaction of 100 euros to a foreign Polish bank account which has been blocked. The made payment to the blocked account will be transferred back to my account in a short period of time.

Here is the proof:  (in dutch though)

http://i.imgur.com/y4aoI.jpg

I too have had an absolutely miserable time doing SEPA with MtGox.  It simply does not work.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators.  So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
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July 06, 2012, 07:28:47 PM
 #30

Made a transfer on 29th of june. Still hasn't appeared on my account.

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cedus
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July 06, 2012, 09:01:28 PM
 #31

Made a transfer on 29th of june. Still hasn't appeared on my account.
Same thing here. Even the same transfer date. And "surprisingly" they aren't answering support ticket messages. Would be nice to know what's causing the delay and some estimate about when the funds should be on my account. Hell, it would be even nice to know that they're still (actively) working on it. "We will check and update you on the status". Bullshit.

How long other forum members have had to wait in a worst-case?
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July 07, 2012, 08:34:24 AM
 #32

I was informed that there was an AML (anti money laundering) issue taking place. I was asked to send scanned copies of my transfer to them?! They're definitely not communicating enough regarding this. It's been 8 days now since my transfer, and I still have no idea where my money is and when is it going to appear on my account.

If they have problems with the authorities, why not state that on their site? Why not warn people not to transfer money, if it will get frozen by the investigation? What are they thinking of achieving by this conduct?

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cedus
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July 08, 2012, 05:34:55 PM
 #33

Received my funds yesterday - didn't expect that to happen on saturday.
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