[$NAUT] Nautiluscoin - First Coin w/Stabilization Fund - MODERATED

[chocobo]

Hey new NAUT thread!

[halinyo]

Since, this is a new thread, I can post here.

Firstly, I am no more a holder of this coin and planning not to have any, any soon.

For the debate, POS is definitely winner against POW in terms of security, being green, no additional costs like hardware, etc...
However, BTC is the widely used coin atm and using POW, which makes POW a winner, to me unless BTC switches POS later.

Any coin with similar to Bitcoin attributes may win in the long term because POW is already widely accepted and POS may become very complicated and may introduce problems accepting such algorithm by regulation if regulation comes any time soon.

Cheers.

Yes but POW is flawed, the whole point of BTC is to be decentralized, and POW gives too much power to the miners.

It started as a great idea, but the mining farms have ruined POW, the ASIC race has squandered peoples money and made people lose faith in crypto.

I personally think we need more of a hybrid model, and I do believe BTC will go part POS, or something of that nature.  It may not be exactly POS, but something has to be done about mining simply dumping coins all over the market all the time.

Also with programs like ShapeShift, this will allow other coins to be just as widely accepted as BTC

I agree on having a hybrid POW/POS model. POW can go centralized. Completely moving to POS may lead easy duplication (fake). POW protects the currency base and make it difficult to forge. POS allows interconnecting the minted blocks against forging, whilst limits the POW from allowing too much leverage on the coin.

Cheers.

True, but people are more likely to try and manipulate something they have "mined" more than if they purchased it off the market.  The great thing about POS is if you want control, you have to buy my coins and everyone else that is holding them, so that will drive the price up.  I have yet to see ANYONE buy a nice stake in ANY coin and just dump it until its dead for no reason.  They would be in it for the money and pump the price, so you as a holder would also take advantage of the price increase or "pumps".

If your already paying bills on a business (mining) then you can accumulate large portions of the coin at the same price.  and dump it without having to spend the money to "pump" the price.  I want some of that capital that all the ASIC makers are stealing from everyone (or so the new would make it seem) to go into the BTC market cap. 

Also minting gives people a reason to hold their coin.  Tons of people are against holding or "hoarding" coins but it is essential if you eventually want to move away from swapping coins for USD and use them for your purchases directly. 

All I heard for months and months last year was "acceptance will increase BTC liquidation", but it hasn't.  With no incentive to hold the coin and build a base of the currency itself, merchants + miners dumping is forcing the price so low the hash rate is actually not going up.  That has never happened in the 1.5 years I have watched BTC.  POS and minting some coins give you an incentive to hold, at least for a period of time.

I agree. However, since the minting on POS is green and saving money from electricity and hardware, the income from staking is quite low, which forces those who stakes, holding for the long term. You may even see some peeps hold it in computer and forget about it for a whole year... Mining in POW is a bit better in terms of income, but overall considering the electricity and external hardware cost, profit is maybe the same as POS (dont have any figure for this sorry). Hybrid may also have an advantage of balancing the expected POS pumps with the plausible POW dumps, and this is what BK wants, stabilization of the price. Best,

PS: I offered BK on Twitter, for developing a platform to stabilize the price of NAUT. This platform is going to be about an intelligent algorithm involving with the game theory and the fuzzy logic. Basically, the NSF will be managed and decided by the intelligent algorithm, when to buy and when to sell to maximally stabilizing the price for a period of time, again decided by the algorithm. You may say it is a bot, but it is not quite the same... I did NOT get any response, because he does not like me anymore:)

[IncreaseMyT]

Since, this is a new thread, I can post here.

Firstly, I am no more a holder of this coin and planning not to have any, any soon.

For the debate, POS is definitely winner against POW in terms of security, being green, no additional costs like hardware, etc...
However, BTC is the widely used coin atm and using POW, which makes POW a winner, to me unless BTC switches POS later.

Any coin with similar to Bitcoin attributes may win in the long term because POW is already widely accepted and POS may become very complicated and may introduce problems accepting such algorithm by regulation if regulation comes any time soon.

Cheers.

Yes but POW is flawed, the whole point of BTC is to be decentralized, and POW gives too much power to the miners.

It started as a great idea, but the mining farms have ruined POW, the ASIC race has squandered peoples money and made people lose faith in crypto.

I personally think we need more of a hybrid model, and I do believe BTC will go part POS, or something of that nature.  It may not be exactly POS, but something has to be done about mining simply dumping coins all over the market all the time.

Also with programs like ShapeShift, this will allow other coins to be just as widely accepted as BTC

I agree on having a hybrid POW/POS model. POW can go centralized. Completely moving to POS may lead easy duplication (fake). POW protects the currency base and make it difficult to forge. POS allows interconnecting the minted blocks against forging, whilst limits the POW from allowing too much leverage on the coin.

Cheers.

True, but people are more likely to try and manipulate something they have "mined" more than if they purchased it off the market.  The great thing about POS is if you want control, you have to buy my coins and everyone else that is holding them, so that will drive the price up.  I have yet to see ANYONE buy a nice stake in ANY coin and just dump it until its dead for no reason.  They would be in it for the money and pump the price, so you as a holder would also take advantage of the price increase or "pumps".

If your already paying bills on a business (mining) then you can accumulate large portions of the coin at the same price.  and dump it without having to spend the money to "pump" the price.  I want some of that capital that all the ASIC makers are stealing from everyone (or so the new would make it seem) to go into the BTC market cap.  

Also minting gives people a reason to hold their coin.  Tons of people are against holding or "hoarding" coins but it is essential if you eventually want to move away from swapping coins for USD and use them for your purchases directly.  

All I heard for months and months last year was "acceptance will increase BTC liquidation", but it hasn't.  With no incentive to hold the coin and build a base of the currency itself, merchants + miners dumping is forcing the price so low the hash rate is actually not going up.  That has never happened in the 1.5 years I have watched BTC.  POS and minting some coins give you an incentive to hold, at least for a period of time.

I agree. However, since the minting on POS is green and saving money from electricity and hardware, the income from staking is quite low, which forces those who stakes, holding for the long term. You may even see some peeps hold it in computer and forget about it for a whole year... Mining in POW is a bit better in terms of income, but overall considering the electricity and external hardware cost, profit is maybe the same as POS (dont have any figure for this sorry). Hybrid may also have an advantage of balancing the expected POS pumps with the plausible POW dumps, and this is what BK wants, stabilization of the price. Best,

PS: I offered BK on Twitter, for developing a platform to stabilize the price of NAUT. This platform is going to be about an intelligent algorithm involving with the game theory and the fuzzy logic. Basically, the NSF will be managed and decided by the intelligent algorithm, when to buy and when to sell to maximally stabilizing the price for a period of time, again decided by the algorithm. You may say it is a bot, but it is not quite the same... I did NOT get any response, because he does not like me anymore:)

So far with BTC this is not true though, mining has been far less profitable than buying and holding the coin.  By the time you order an ASIC, and even get it it could take a year that way.  Then you have to wait x amount of time to break even (which is usually exaggerated quite a bit)

The funds are there to spend either way, so I personally do not see how people would spend less money on buying rather than mining.  People just seem to think mining is more profitable, but with BTC so far, buying and holding has been much more profitable.

Also with POS giving the incentive to hold (just like POW gives the incentive not to fork even if you have 51%) this may actually help miners as well.  I would prefer a hybrid system, but would choose POS (for an alt coin) over POW if I had to choose.  I mean people ordered from Alpha in JAN i believe and still don't have their machines.  You could have bought BTC @ 500 in january and taken profit a few times since then.  At the end of May and around the 4th of July.  Thats 2x pop for profit.  Alpha miners haven't made anyone a dime yet.

Its all about network security, and with alts there is no loyalty to the coin, POS would change that.  Right now miners are just switching to the most profitable coin ATM.  Minting gives you more incentive to be faithful to one network.

[halinyo]

So far with BTC this is not true though, mining has been far less profitable than buying and holding the coin.  By the time you order an ASIC, and even get it it could take a year that way.  Then you have to wait x amount of time to break even (which is usually exaggerated quite a bit)

The funds are there to spend either way, so I personally do not see how people would spend less money on buying rather than mining.  People just seem to think mining is more profitable, but with BTC so far, buying and holding has been much more profitable.

Also with POS giving the incentive to hold (just like POW gives the incentive not to fork even if you have 51%) this may actually help miners as well.  I would prefer a hybrid system, but would choose POS (for an alt coin) over POW if I had to choose.  I mean people ordered from Alpha in JAN i believe and still don't have their machines.  You could have bought BTC @ 500 in january and taken profit a few times since then.  At the end of May and around the 4th of July.  Thats 2x pop for profit.  Alpha miners haven't made anyone a dime yet.

Its all about network security, and with alts there is no loyalty to the coin, POS would change that.  Right now miners are just switching to the most profitable coin ATM.  Minting gives you more incentive to be faithful to one network.

Yes, I agree if hybrid is not possible. If ever BTC changes to POS or a hybrid system then, POS will be much valuable.

[HKBvM]

I know this is not Naut related, but whatever:

I am following the bay desaster right now (dont have any coins though). Whatever the truth is, I am seriuosly getting sick of all this drama called cryptos. I used to believe that those unregulated markets are going to have some sort of self-regulation, but it looks more like self-destruction right now. So sad to see this all go down like this.

If there werent a few good people really trying to achieve something I would probably sell most coins except BTC and two or three alts and not come back anytime soon.

[kehtolo]

Hi everyone.. Posting in the new thread so that i continue to see updates.

StayNauti

[LeroyBangbottoms]

Just saying hi ..been keeping up with the old thread since June. Finally a moderated thread!

[IncreaseMyT]

Glad everyone decided to come over xD

old thread is forked.

[delong]

just saying hello on the new thread... not sure what i'll do without having barabbas' ponderous posts to pore over ... really, though, it will be nice to hopefully learn new things about NAUT in a sane way, rather than devote time to trying to fight the trolls.

[FlyingMongoose]

Though I believe IncreaseMyT said he exited some time back, I do appreciate him continuing to provide support here, I feel like it best to leave it to him, while I'll still poke my head in from time to time; I don't believe I'll be a primary source of info here anymore.

[Equalizer1970]

Can anybody tell me how long PoS takes to implement? It has bee six months since the Finch fight and 3 developers now. I'm hoping Jyap is capable of implementing the more complex version BK had in mind.

An update by BK or Jyap in the moderated thread would be appreciated. I'm not talking timeline, just an update. Please for the love of Gawd, the longs here deserve a bone, especially, after having to put up with all the professional bs fudsters that had been running wild on the other thread.

[IncreaseMyT]

yes i think we deserve an update

[EssTee]

I can honestly understand why BK doesn't want to give one but yes, i think a little bone about POS is deserved.

Has anyone tweeted him to give a heads up about this new thread?

[FlyingMongoose]

Direct e-mail content from BK to me when I e-mailed him asking;

I apologize for the delayed response-between the holiday and the book release I was swamped.

The latest update is that Julian and the other dev continue to work on the switch, they ran into a few problems but know how to fix it.

I got this update 7 days ago.

I don't know how much more work has been done since.

[atleticofa]

Some updates?

[Equalizer1970]

Direct e-mail content from BK to me when I e-mailed him asking;

I apologize for the delayed response-between the holiday and the book release I was swamped.

The latest update is that Julian and the other dev continue to work on the switch, they ran into a few problems but know how to fix it.

I got this update 7 days ago.

I don't know how much more work has been done since.

Thank you! At least we see there's progress and work continues. Hopefully, we will all get a nice Christmas surprise.

[EssTee]

Direct e-mail content from BK to me when I e-mailed him asking;

I apologize for the delayed response-between the holiday and the book release I was swamped.

The latest update is that Julian and the other dev continue to work on the switch, they ran into a few problems but know how to fix it.

I got this update 7 days ago.

I don't know how much more work has been done since.

Thanks, thats awesome.

On another note, how's Nautijobs coming along?

[FlyingMongoose]

Direct e-mail content from BK to me when I e-mailed him asking;

I apologize for the delayed response-between the holiday and the book release I was swamped.

The latest update is that Julian and the other dev continue to work on the switch, they ran into a few problems but know how to fix it.

I got this update 7 days ago.

I don't know how much more work has been done since.

Thanks, thats awesome.

On another note, how's Nautijobs coming along?

Stand still. Holidays, new long term contract, recent marriage. Busy as hell preventing me from doing any real work on it right now. Which upsets me because I REALLY want to get it done. I do believe BK still intends for there to be an official forum and I've also offered to help him with that.

[Lord Of The Internet]

Thank you! At least we see there's progress and work continues. Hopefully, we will all get a nice Christmas surprise.

i will bet you 1 bitcoin that there's no way in hell that's happening by the 25th of this year.  maybe by next year if there is a full blown community takeover.

And by "community" i mean 1 actually competent dev and a few bagholders.

[Equalizer1970]

Thank you! At least we see there's progress and work continues. Hopefully, we will all get a nice Christmas surprise.

i will bet you 1 bitcoin that there's no way in hell that's happening by the 25th of this year.  maybe by next year if there is a full blown community takeover.

And by "community" i mean 1 actually competent dev and a few bagholders.

At this point, i agree with you it's looking like 2015. But my interpretation of the mini update is that it's almost ready to unveil; just fixing bugs.

But think, once we have PoS the mining dumping will stop and the interest rate should rise to soak up the copious amounts of coins out there and encourage people to save. I think that alone will do a tremendous amount in increasing the price.