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Author Topic: [GLBSE] House for sale: RFC  (Read 4157 times)
punningclan
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June 23, 2012, 06:53:48 PM
 #41

What's the difference between taking out a home equity loan from a bank and doing a similar thing with Bitcoin? For one thing I won't have huge interest payments and this will benefit all the shareholders? The shares represent ownership in the house and the house is collateral against the shares, if something goes wrong the share holders may reposes my house or some small part of it by calling in the shares value.
If that is what you actually want to do (imitate a home equity loan), I think it's an interesting idea (and possibly even a really good idea). That's not really how you represented the investment, though. I did not realize the house was supposed to be collateral. (After all, you said you were "selling" the house.) Your proposal was confusing.

I would be more comfortable as an investor if this were structured as follows. Each share represents a proportion of the house, with a guaranteed date for buyback (by you) and a certain fixed dividend payed out on some schedule (i.e., interest).

For one thing, this is simpler to understand and straightforward, and for another thing, it sheilds the investor from the whole "re-investing money in GLBSE" business. Yes, you can do that if you want as a means to try to generate the money to pay the dividend to your creditors (I say "try" because I'm rather bearish on much of the GLBSE).

Of course, doing it the other way exposes the investor to more GLBSE risk and sheilds you from it. That's also an option.

The shares themselves being pinned against the value of the house represent an investment opportunity however the shares value plus dividends represent a better investment and return for the money.
The shares being pinned to the value of the house only matters if you are unable to make good on the debt you are issuing, if I understand your proposal. Shouldn't you not plan on that happening and not use that as a selling point? I am sure nobody is going to be comforted by that train of thought.

Why is this conflation or illegal in any way, I should have the right to invest any funds I receive in any way the shareholder see fit and I along with all the other share holders are probably going to want to see dividends. What law would you site to prevent me from paying my shareholders this way?
My legality concerns were not from the "conflation" issue, but from your statement at the beginning of the original post (which is still there as of now) that a town in NH plans to take the house. You later state that there are no plans to seize the property, which is a contraditcion. Assuming there are indeed no plans to seize the property, I'm not sure I see anything legally questionable here.

Also, talking about losing assets to a divorce just made things more confusing. That does help explain the backstory, so it's good to know (and you have my condolences), but it just wasn't clear at first to me whether the house could be seized as part of those proceedings.

tl;dr: you may be onto something but you need to hire a PR firm or something.  Grin

It's your prerogative to not invest however thank you for the good wishes.

Tip o' the hat for not being aggressive in response to the criticism.

Thanks again for the advice. I have to say I was a somewhat upset when I was typing the original idea in, but one of the good things about this forum software is I can edit it!

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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punningclan
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June 23, 2012, 07:05:08 PM
 #42

nonsense; BTC exchange rate movement will make this a bad investment for both investors and issuer; and I pretty much doubt that there's enough high quality assets on GLBSE to invest such high sums into for long term
There's a first time for everything. I've chosen GLBSE since I have come to trust the company. They are developing secure software for compromised environments. Also the original idea was to sell shares to the whole value of the house however that could easily be pared down until the market improves. 300k may sound like a lot but looking at the volume on some of the securities there this is not that huge?

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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punningclan
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June 23, 2012, 07:08:51 PM
 #43

So now it is GLBSE Loan & Pawn? What's next, someone going to IPO their car or their gun collection? If I buy enough shares can I move into a room? How many shares for the garage? There are other mechanisms in place for situations like this (i.e. private lenders and Bitcoin banks). Crowdfunding the mortgaging of your home via GLBSE is just silly and takes away from the credibility of the exchange. Any real world investors looking at Bitcoin for the 1st time and seeing a 'security' like this listed on one of the main exchanges will probably take their money elsewhere, and for good reason.
So all home equity loans have no credibility?
People on the forum have already asked me why I'm doing this I thought it prudent to tell the truth.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 23, 2012, 07:18:25 PM
 #44

So now it is GLBSE Loan & Pawn? What's next, someone going to IPO their car or their gun collection? If I buy enough shares can I move into a room? How many shares for the garage? There are other mechanisms in place for situations like this (i.e. private lenders and Bitcoin banks). Crowdfunding the mortgaging of your home via GLBSE is just silly and takes away from the credibility of the exchange. Any real world investors looking at Bitcoin for the 1st time and seeing a 'security' like this listed on one of the main exchanges will probably take their money elsewhere, and for good reason.

Sorry but this is true.

I think this project should go elsewhere. What about Patrick's new baking services?

But I guess it's up to nefario to accept or not this listing on his exchange.

Anyway whish you best of luck  Punningchan
Thank you.
Please understand that I really don't see it as silly risking my livelihood on a venture like this. It's interesting how banks have the ability to make Home Equity loans look so credibile but I'm having a less easy time of it here, perhaps that's a good thing. Another poster commented that I may need a PR firm, this could be true but the fundamentals of this idea are solid. A home equity loan reinvested to the benefit of the shareholders. If I had the money right now I'd invest far more on GLBSE and with the collateral I can. I'm starting to think of this idea as selling real estate in small pieces.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 23, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
 #45


Alternatively:
Make sure to make clear your debt is USD denominated and for example issue 20k shares for 20k USD debt. Then integrate a bot that always keeps the ask price up-to-date with MtGox and make clear rules for dividends and which USD <--> BTC rate will be used there. This means BTC bullish people might be driven away, but they still might at least appreciate the straightforwardness and still invest a bit, unlike the recent mining bond crash that cought quite a few people by surprise.

From an investors stand point, since they are investing in a property, shouldn't they share the risk/benefit of the value of the property if that increases then the sell price should be higher, if the property falls in price the price should be lower. None of us can control that except the market and anyone can buy or sell the security at whatever price they want. The initial offering will be pinned to the market price of the property at the time of the IPO.

The question of the value of BTC over time would also seem to effect all GLBSE securities not just this proposal but since all funds are to be reinvested in those funds this would seem to be a mute point.

Also all investments can immediately be reinvested without sojourn into Fiat land since the securities are being sold in BTC.

Since I will pay the taxes etc. from my share of the dividends this is the only place in the IPOs functionality where Fiat will be involved and in reality is of little interest to the investors as pointed out by another poster.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 23, 2012, 07:59:03 PM
 #46

A relevant question is also, what steps will you take to give your investors legal recourse in the event of a default? You would essentially be blazing a new trail legally-speaking, so laying a solid legal groundwork is important. If it's an issuance of debt, who holds the note? Who will hold the deed to the house if you get your investors?

-bgc
That's an interesting question since there can't really be a default with no outstanding mortgage. The only risks are if the house blows up, I decide to spend the dividends on something else other than the taxes and the town then takes the house, or the bottom falls out of the Bitcoin market. My goal in all of this is to keep the house and to do so means paying the taxes and therefore I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I didn't pay them.

From an investors perspective I probably need some way to publicly display that the taxes are being paid or at least that town has decided I'm paying enough.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 23, 2012, 08:42:00 PM
 #47

From an investors stand point, since they are investing in a property

If it's a home equity loan (or even a "fancy/complicated" home equity loan), the investors are not investing in the property. It's just collateral.

That's an interesting question since there can't really be a default with no outstanding mortgage. The only risks are if the house blows up or I decide to spend the dividends on something else other than the taxes and the town then takes the house.

You are failing to mention the #1 source of risk, which is that you don't pay out the dividends you own to investors, and/or don't pay back the principle (i.e. buy back the shares). For example, because you invest that principle in GLBSE assets which could underperform.

Seriously, red flags, man.
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June 23, 2012, 09:11:57 PM
 #48

From an investors stand point, since they are investing in a property

If it's a home equity loan (or even a "fancy/complicated" home equity loan), the investors are not investing in the property. It's just collateral.

That's an interesting question since there can't really be a default with no outstanding mortgage. The only risks are if the house blows up or I decide to spend the dividends on something else other than the taxes and the town then takes the house.

You are failing to mention the #1 source of risk, which is that you don't pay out the dividends you own to investors, and/or don't pay back the principle (i.e. buy back the shares). For example, because you invest that principle in GLBSE assets which could underperform.

Seriously, red flags, man.

See the previous post.
[snip]
That's an interesting question since there can't really be a default with no outstanding mortgage. The only risks are if the house blows up or I decide to spend the dividends on something else other than the taxes and the town then takes the house. My goal in all of this is to keep the house and to do so means paying the taxes and therefore I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I didn't pay them.
[/snip?]


Isn't that a red flag against all GLBSE dividend baring stocks any one of them could stop paying the dividends but then the value of the stock would plummet to everyones misfortune, including mine. The dividends will be based on the returns from the reinvested funds based on their performance.

I'm beginning to see the difficulty in my approach, instead of just one banker I have to appeal to hundreds, but I beleive it's worth it to avoid paying interest for loaned money that does not exist.

The idea is that if the house goes up in value then the shares should be more valuable, is that a problem?

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 24, 2012, 03:54:12 AM
 #49

What about setting up a company that does house mortgages or partial mortgages on glbse ?

Dont list the house but instead use it as collateral to set up a mortgage broker Smiley

Eventually people will want to pay their house repayments using btc.




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June 24, 2012, 06:45:04 AM
 #50

As already pointed out, you are confusing things by mixing investment types. Forget the GLBSE dividend paying investments for a moment. For me to invest I would need to see the following occur.

Get an independent market valuation from a licensed valuer. Provide statements of exact amounts of tax owing. Work out your equity by subtracting tax owing from valuation. Sign a legally binding mortgage to a trusted third party escrow. (If the third party escrow has sufficient reputation in the bitcoin securities world, you would not need to publicly reveal your address. A statement from the escrow that they hold a mortgage would be enough.) Get an independent valuation of the rent that would be payable on an arm's length basis. Either you, or preferably the third party, issues GLBSE assets for no more than 80 % of the equity. You sell at least enough to cover the tax, but more if you like. Proceeds are used first pay off your tax. Each month, you pay to the third party escrow 80 % (or whatever percentage of assets issued) of the market rent for the house, and this rent is distributed as dividends. You may deduct any genuine expenses for the house from the rental income by providing the thrid party escrow with receipts. If you own some of the GLBSE assets yourself, you get some of the rent back. If you issue more assets than is needed to pay the tax, you can invest some of this in dividend paying GLBSE investments. If these go well, you keep all the income yourself and use it to help pay your rent. If your investments bomb, you are still up for rental payments, and if you stop paying rent, the investors can choose to evict you and put someone else in or foreclose on the house.

I would be interested in seeing something like this happen. It would be a novel concept to the bitcoin world (although not the first mortgage). I would need to see the valuations and rent appraisal before deciding whether I would invest in such a venture.

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June 24, 2012, 06:52:45 AM
 #51

brendio is the first one to propose realistic terms. That would be a really interesting first for bitcoin. I don't agree with the "a trusted forum member's word would prevent needing to reveal the address". Holding as illiquid an asset as a house requires extra burden in terms of proof. I would require an appraiser and a fully notarized transferal of title.

I also think you'd need to be pretty bearish on bitcoins to think that a house would outpace them at the moment. A house is certainly at less risk for total loss however, so if the right boxes are checked you could possibly find some investors. Not me, but it's not a totally unviable idea.

-bgc

I'm selling great Minion Games like The Manhattan Project, Kingdom of Solomon and Venture Forth at 4% off retail starting June 2012. PM me or go to my thread in the Marketplace if you're interested.

For Settlers/Dominion/Carcassone etc., I do email gift cards on Amazon for a 5% fee. PM if you're interested.
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June 24, 2012, 06:56:40 AM
 #52

As a home owner this is relevent to my interests  Smiley

Brendio is one smart cookie.

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June 25, 2012, 12:45:22 AM
 #53

So now it is GLBSE Loan & Pawn? What's next, someone going to IPO their car or their gun collection? If I buy enough shares can I move into a room? How many shares for the garage? There are other mechanisms in place for situations like this (i.e. private lenders and Bitcoin banks). Crowdfunding the mortgaging of your home via GLBSE is just silly and takes away from the credibility of the exchange. Any real world investors looking at Bitcoin for the 1st time and seeing a 'security' like this listed on one of the main exchanges will probably take their money elsewhere, and for good reason.

Would the bank want to move in to a room if I got a home equity loan? They certainly considered it a security for the years of mortgage and made phenomenal amounts of interest off my back, perhaps you are right that does seem entirely silly.

This method as I have come to realize allows very small risk from the shareholders perspective, since they can buy a small piece of a fund that is backed by collateral which is like the basis of any standard security, isn't it?

Can you elaborate on what you find silly?

Please also understand this document is a request for comment not the actual fund.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 25, 2012, 01:01:38 AM
 #54

As already pointed out, you are confusing things by mixing investment types. Forget the GLBSE dividend paying investments for a moment. For me to invest I would need to see the following occur.

Get an independent market valuation from a licensed valuer. Provide statements of exact amounts of tax owing. Work out your equity by subtracting tax owing from valuation. Sign a legally binding mortgage to a trusted third party escrow. (If the third party escrow has sufficient reputation in the bitcoin securities world, you would not need to publicly reveal your address. A statement from the escrow that they hold a mortgage would be enough.) Get an independent valuation of the rent that would be payable on an arm's length basis. Either you, or preferably the third party, issues GLBSE assets for no more than 80 % of the equity. You sell at least enough to cover the tax, but more if you like. Proceeds are used first pay off your tax. Each month, you pay to the third party escrow 80 % (or whatever percentage of assets issued) of the market rent for the house, and this rent is distributed as dividends. You may deduct any genuine expenses for the house from the rental income by providing the thrid party escrow with receipts. If you own some of the GLBSE assets yourself, you get some of the rent back. If you issue more assets than is needed to pay the tax, you can invest some of this in dividend paying GLBSE investments. If these go well, you keep all the income yourself and use it to help pay your rent. If your investments bomb, you are still up for rental payments, and if you stop paying rent, the investors can choose to evict you and put someone else in or foreclose on the house.

I would be interested in seeing something like this happen. It would be a novel concept to the bitcoin world (although not the first mortgage). I would need to see the valuations and rent appraisal before deciding whether I would invest in such a venture.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

I would also happily have a representative vist me here.

Who is paying rent to whom? I currently pay no rent and wish to continue doing so. Reinvesting the value of the shares in funds that pay dividends is simply adding more functionality to a simple investment instrument, it is not illegal, it promises guaranteed regular payments and anyone suggesting that investing on GLBSE is excessively risky shouldn't be investing in the first place? (To answer a poster elsewhere.)

There are ETFs on GLBSE that have no such stringent requirements and they are only backed by the funds themselves, you want me to put the collateral up and pay rent?

A home equity loan requires no rental, why should one based on Bitcoin? Banks use collateral to make money all the time?

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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punningclan
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June 25, 2012, 01:11:29 AM
 #55

What about setting up a company that does house mortgages or partial mortgages on glbse ?

Dont list the house but instead use it as collateral to set up a mortgage broker Smiley

Eventually people will want to pay their house repayments using btc.





This is an awesome idea!

I would certainly consider doing this with trusted forum members. I'm not a lawyer but if there are some on the forum we should appeal to them, as much as I detest the paperwork some of this might need a degree of that.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 25, 2012, 01:19:38 AM
 #56

I think you should ask for a USD home equity loan and invest in glbse so you get returns in bitcoins.
If you are paying 5% per annum for this loan and earning a 4% or more weekly yield on glbse it should cover the repayments.

This is where it would be nice if there was a service that let you deposit fiat to get bitcoin returns.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89558.0  this is possibly related.

I would really like to start such a  venture as I see a demand for it.


Also you could cover the tax with those returns. You just need people to loan the fiat not bitcoins Smiley

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June 25, 2012, 04:09:15 AM
 #57

As already pointed out, you are confusing things by mixing investment types. Forget the GLBSE dividend paying investments for a moment. For me to invest I would need to see the following occur.

Get an independent market valuation from a licensed valuer. Provide statements of exact amounts of tax owing. Work out your equity by subtracting tax owing from valuation. Sign a legally binding mortgage to a trusted third party escrow. (If the third party escrow has sufficient reputation in the bitcoin securities world, you would not need to publicly reveal your address. A statement from the escrow that they hold a mortgage would be enough.) Get an independent valuation of the rent that would be payable on an arm's length basis. Either you, or preferably the third party, issues GLBSE assets for no more than 80 % of the equity. You sell at least enough to cover the tax, but more if you like. Proceeds are used first pay off your tax. Each month, you pay to the third party escrow 80 % (or whatever percentage of assets issued) of the market rent for the house, and this rent is distributed as dividends. You may deduct any genuine expenses for the house from the rental income by providing the thrid party escrow with receipts. If you own some of the GLBSE assets yourself, you get some of the rent back. If you issue more assets than is needed to pay the tax, you can invest some of this in dividend paying GLBSE investments. If these go well, you keep all the income yourself and use it to help pay your rent. If your investments bomb, you are still up for rental payments, and if you stop paying rent, the investors can choose to evict you and put someone else in or foreclose on the house.

I would be interested in seeing something like this happen. It would be a novel concept to the bitcoin world (although not the first mortgage). I would need to see the valuations and rent appraisal before deciding whether I would invest in such a venture.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

I would also happily have a representative vist me here.

Who is paying rent to whom? I currently pay no rent and wish to continue doing so. Reinvesting the value of the shares in funds that pay dividends is simply adding more functionality to a simple investment instrument, it is not illegal, it promises guaranteed regular payments and anyone suggesting that investing on GLBSE is excessively risky shouldn't be investing in the first place? (To answer a poster elsewhere.)

There are ETFs on GLBSE that have no such stringent requirements and they are only backed by the funds themselves, you want me to put the collateral up and pay rent?

A home equity loan requires no rental, why should one based on Bitcoin? Banks use collateral to make money all the time?

Dear investors;

I have been in private contact with punningclan and his tone is somewhat different in PM; he has spurned every advance I have made towards representing him on this deal with CPA as a PR firm and/or insurance or notarization agent, and has so far talked around signing any kind of contract which would be legally binding. He has, to his credit, remained polite. But his reasons are simply that "he wants to trust the GLBSE", "trust this" and "trust that"; it basically boils down to "trust me, I'm not a crook! I am not a crook!"

This does not mean that punningclan is a fraud; it just means that for whatever reason, he refuses to be held legally accountable in any way for his actions with this issue. The term "buyer beware" is appropriate here; He has announced his house is about to be seized by the government and he refuses to sign a real, legally binding contract tying him to his house or his issue. If you invest with him and this turns out to be a fraud, or even if it's not a fraud and the government gets involved and takes the house, you will have no recourse, none. You won't be able to sue, you won't even be able to report him to the police.

If punningclan wishes to open up discussions and sign a real, legally binding contract with CPA, we'd be pleased to represent his issue.

You are failing to mention the #1 source of risk, which is that you don't pay out the dividends you own to investors, and/or don't pay back the principle (i.e. buy back the shares). For example, because you invest that principle in GLBSE assets which could underperform.

Seriously, red flags, man.

Isn't that a red flag against all GLBSE dividend baring stocks any one of them could stop paying the dividends but then the value of the stock would plummet to everyones misfortune, including mine. The dividends will be based on the returns from the reinvested funds based on their performance.

I'm beginning to see the difficulty in my approach, instead of just one banker I have to appeal to hundreds, but I beleive it's worth it to avoid paying interest for loaned money that does not exist.

The idea is that if the house goes up in value then the shares should be more valuable, is that a problem?

You don't need to appeal to "hundreds" of people if you appeal to the right ones ;-)

I don't think you realize how difficult it will be to have your issue listed. You are not a business, you are a private HELOC. You have NO way of paying dividends on your issue. NO ONE will invest with you. You stated your house was going to be seized. You shot yourself in the foot by saying that.

Please consider that there are currently NO such issues (collateral loans) on the GLBSE right now. It is not like people have not tried. Most recently ciuciu tried to start a COOP, and there have been real-estate discussions before. They end up going nowhere.

I'd like to help you get listed and make your venture profitable. What you do once you are listed and selling shares is up to you. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you don't hire me or someone else, you will simply not be able to list. There are just too many red flags, and you did in fact say the house was about to be seized in the OP.

I may be wrong, you could be able to list and succeed on your own; I just don't think it is likely.

Good luck!
I'm not sure how usagi has taken it upon himself to say that I have "spurned his every advance" since I only see one advance telling me how unlikely I'll be to succeed without his help. I'm sure his help would be appreciated, but I can't help wondering what this sentence means "I can pretty much guarantee you that if you don't hire me or someone else, you will simply not be able to list. "?

Are you really saying that all the Bitcoineers you profess to stand for have completely decried collateral based loans even given they are the foremost loan instrument in the world? And if so why do you think you can manage it?

The poster also needs to keep abreast of the current facts in this proposal.

Thank you again.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 25, 2012, 04:15:08 AM
 #58

As already pointed out, you are confusing things by mixing investment types. Forget the GLBSE dividend paying investments for a moment. For me to invest I would need to see the following occur.

Get an independent market valuation from a licensed valuer. Provide statements of exact amounts of tax owing. Work out your equity by subtracting tax owing from valuation. Sign a legally binding mortgage to a trusted third party escrow. (If the third party escrow has sufficient reputation in the bitcoin securities world, you would not need to publicly reveal your address. A statement from the escrow that they hold a mortgage would be enough.) Get an independent valuation of the rent that would be payable on an arm's length basis. Either you, or preferably the third party, issues GLBSE assets for no more than 80 % of the equity. You sell at least enough to cover the tax, but more if you like. Proceeds are used first pay off your tax. Each month, you pay to the third party escrow 80 % (or whatever percentage of assets issued) of the market rent for the house, and this rent is distributed as dividends. You may deduct any genuine expenses for the house from the rental income by providing the thrid party escrow with receipts. If you own some of the GLBSE assets yourself, you get some of the rent back. If you issue more assets than is needed to pay the tax, you can invest some of this in dividend paying GLBSE investments. If these go well, you keep all the income yourself and use it to help pay your rent. If your investments bomb, you are still up for rental payments, and if you stop paying rent, the investors can choose to evict you and put someone else in or foreclose on the house.

I would be interested in seeing something like this happen. It would be a novel concept to the bitcoin world (although not the first mortgage). I would need to see the valuations and rent appraisal before deciding whether I would invest in such a venture.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

I would also happily have a representative vist me here.

Who is paying rent to whom? I currently pay no rent and wish to continue doing so. Reinvesting the value of the shares in funds that pay dividends is simply adding more functionality to a simple investment instrument, it is not illegal, it promises guaranteed regular payments and anyone suggesting that investing on GLBSE is excessively risky shouldn't be investing in the first place? (To answer a poster elsewhere.)

There are ETFs on GLBSE that have no such stringent requirements and they are only backed by the funds themselves, you want me to put the collateral up and pay rent?

A home equity loan requires no rental, why should one based on Bitcoin? Banks use collateral to make money all the time?

You don't currently pay rent because you currently own the house. If you sell the house, as your title suggests, either you need to move out, or else pay rent to the new owners of the house, which in this case would be the GLBSE investors.

A home equity loan requires no rental, but they do require interest payments. That could be an alternative set up for this. It would still require a legally binding mortgage and either a fixed interest rate or a rate that floats relative to some external reference rate.

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June 25, 2012, 04:18:18 AM
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As already pointed out, you are confusing things by mixing investment types. Forget the GLBSE dividend paying investments for a moment. For me to invest I would need to see the following occur.

Get an independent market valuation from a licensed valuer. Provide statements of exact amounts of tax owing. Work out your equity by subtracting tax owing from valuation. Sign a legally binding mortgage to a trusted third party escrow. (If the third party escrow has sufficient reputation in the bitcoin securities world, you would not need to publicly reveal your address. A statement from the escrow that they hold a mortgage would be enough.) Get an independent valuation of the rent that would be payable on an arm's length basis. Either you, or preferably the third party, issues GLBSE assets for no more than 80 % of the equity. You sell at least enough to cover the tax, but more if you like. Proceeds are used first pay off your tax. Each month, you pay to the third party escrow 80 % (or whatever percentage of assets issued) of the market rent for the house, and this rent is distributed as dividends. You may deduct any genuine expenses for the house from the rental income by providing the thrid party escrow with receipts. If you own some of the GLBSE assets yourself, you get some of the rent back. If you issue more assets than is needed to pay the tax, you can invest some of this in dividend paying GLBSE investments. If these go well, you keep all the income yourself and use it to help pay your rent. If your investments bomb, you are still up for rental payments, and if you stop paying rent, the investors can choose to evict you and put someone else in or foreclose on the house.

I would be interested in seeing something like this happen. It would be a novel concept to the bitcoin world (although not the first mortgage). I would need to see the valuations and rent appraisal before deciding whether I would invest in such a venture.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

I would also happily have a representative vist me here.

Who is paying rent to whom? I currently pay no rent and wish to continue doing so. Reinvesting the value of the shares in funds that pay dividends is simply adding more functionality to a simple investment instrument, it is not illegal, it promises guaranteed regular payments and anyone suggesting that investing on GLBSE is excessively risky shouldn't be investing in the first place? (To answer a poster elsewhere.)

There are ETFs on GLBSE that have no such stringent requirements and they are only backed by the funds themselves, you want me to put the collateral up and pay rent?

A home equity loan requires no rental, why should one based on Bitcoin? Banks use collateral to make money all the time?

You don't currently pay rent because you currently own the house. If you sell the house, as your title suggests, either you need to move out, or else pay rent to the new owners of the house, which in this case would be the GLBSE investors.

A home equity loan requires no rental, but they do require interest payments. That could be an alternative set up for this. It would still require a legally binding mortgage and either a fixed interest rate or a rate that floats relative to some external reference rate.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a home equity loan that requires the home owners to move out and pay rent?

Instead of interest the shareholders will receive weekly dividends.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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brendio
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June 25, 2012, 04:25:57 AM
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a home equity loan that requires the home owners to move out and pay rent?
You did not post asking for a GLBSE home equity loan. You posted your house for sale. There is a difference that you seem to be confusing.

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