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Author Topic: [GLBSE] House for sale: RFC  (Read 4149 times)
punningclan
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June 22, 2012, 10:46:46 PM
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I've just discovered Manchester NH can take my home under current law. After a divorce a number of years ago that saw me lose a large amount of my wealth, I find my own house is now under duress. My mining operation is not yet big enough for me to be able to afford the taxes here and unless I can find a way to pay these the town has stated that I may lose my property.

In order to resolve this issue I propose a profitable fund called House.

This initial offering will sell the value of my house, or some portion thereof, in shares with each pinned to the current market value of the property. All the funds will be reinvested in a spread of securities on the GLBSE stock exchange and all the dividends will be payed to the shareholders. As an additional diversification part of this fund may be used to purchase mining equipment, probably ASICs from BFL to add to the dividends. Shareholders will be allowed to vote on this spread etc.

This IPO will act as a home equity loan but instead of interest being paid to the bank, dividends will be paid to the investors.

I will maintain a number of the shares and use the dividends from these to pay the outstanding usury taxes and the right to purchase back the shares at the current market value.

Since house prices are generally heading up here this is could be a very good investment going into the future.

Any constructive suggestions would be very much appreciated. If the fund becomes a reality this thread will be used as a place for shareholder discussions.


Details:

Please view this proposal as a request for comment rather than a legal document.

This fund's idea of reinvesting in other GLBSE securities is repeated numerous times with many of the funds on GLBSE whether backed by collateral or not. This is a collateral backed fund. However adding to this with actual mining hardware would increase the dividends greatly.

Pending photos ect.  This house was originally a single family home and sits on 3/4 of an acre in downtown Manchester, NH. With gingerbread architecture, 6 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms/1 half bathroom, two car powered garage, brand new shingle and copper roof, and a purchase price of 320k.

The house is fully paid for. There are no other owners, I hold a free and clear title minus back taxes which I'll have to calculate. There is no seizure order and the taxes are limited to around 10 to 15k.

This IPO is constructed as to be somewhat similar to a home equity loan, with all the proceeds being immediately reinvested in dividend bareing securities payable to the shareholders. The dividends performance will of course be based on the performance of a diversified selection of GLSBE securities while the value of the shares should reflect the value of the property or part thereof.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 22, 2012, 10:49:31 PM
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To make a better shot at this, I think you should create a prospect that will present the house with pictures and details, much like a real estate brooker does when he sells a house.
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June 22, 2012, 10:56:11 PM
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And then we can raise a motion to make you sell your house and you have to pay it out to the shareholders as dividends?

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June 22, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
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And then we can raise a motion to make you sell your house and you have to pay it out to the shareholders as dividends?
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June 22, 2012, 11:21:47 PM
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To make a better shot at this, I think you should create a prospect that will present the house with pictures and details, much like a real estate brooker does when he sells a house.
And then we can raise a motion to make you sell your house and you have to pay it out to the shareholders as dividends?

Naturally the idea is to build a profitable venture for everyone involved. I apologize for the hastiness of this proposal but given that I lack the firepower to fight off the state for long, I felt that posting to the forum would speed the process. Pictures and other information will be posted if/when and while I build an IPO that makes sense to everyone including me.

This is likely to mean I will maintain control of a number of the shares allowing me to continue residence.

Pending photos ect.  This house was originally a single family home and sits on 3/4 of an acre in downtown Manchester, NH. With gingerbread architecture, 6 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms/1 half bathroom, two car powered garage, brand new shingle and copper roof, and a purchase price of 320k.

Given the unprecedented nature of this venture I seek the forums considered involvement.  

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 22, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
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Or we could call it something like Bold Funding and let Bruce Wagner be the boss.

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June 22, 2012, 11:25:19 PM
 #7

Do you really want bitcoiners as your landlord ?

As a fellow home owner I wish you well in this novel idea. I think it is doable and something worth supporting on glbse.

Are you moving because of the free state project by any chance ?

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June 22, 2012, 11:27:44 PM
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Count me in!
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June 22, 2012, 11:30:50 PM
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How much do you owe on it?

Mortgage?  1st? 2nd?

Back Taxes?

Is anyone else an owner? (is the title clouded from your divorce?)

What is the exact financial situation?
punningclan
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June 22, 2012, 11:36:36 PM
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Do you really want bitcoiners as your landlord ?

As a fellow home owner I wish you well in this novel idea. I think it is doable and something worth supporting on glbse.

Are you moving because of the free state project by any chance ?

Thank you.

I feel somewhat inspired by the ideas of the free staters, the NAP and libertarians in general. I suffered a great deal of loss during the housing scam back in 2007/8 and have realized that draconian governments with policies that obviously fail to meet even the basic tenants of humanity can simply walk in and take my stuff away, something that I wasn't able to learn in the UK. The idea here is that I can keep my home and buy it back over time by using the free market to fight back.

To me anyone who has even begun to realize how corrupt the societies we live in have become are better traveling companions than those who refuse to open their eyes and have gained a great deal of respect for those willing to step out of line during my time with and as a Bitcoineer.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 22, 2012, 11:37:31 PM
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What you're proposing is not at all clear to me. I'll point out some of my confusions.

I've just discovered Manchester NH can and plans to take my home and everything in it. After a divorce that saw me lose almost all my wealth, property and family I find my own house is now under duress.
So you're planning to sell something that is about to be seized? Isn't that illegal? Does that mean the the shares will be worthless? Why is it being seized - a part of the divorce, for taxes (both of which you've mentioned), or for something else (e.g. imminent domain)?


This initial offering will sell the value of my house in shares with each pinned to the current market value of the property. All the funds will be reinvested in a spread of securities on the GLBSE stock exchange and all the dividends will be payed to the shareholders. Shareholders will possibly be allowed to vote on this spread.
Well, if you sell the house and raise money, the money is yours. Taking that money and putting it into various GLBSE holdings is up to you.

On the other hand, if you raise money to invest in various GLBSE holdings, that's also a possibility.

It seems like you're trying to combine both of the above, and it's hurting my head to try to understand.

I will maintain a number of the shares and use the dividends from these to pay the outstanding usury taxes and the right to purchase back the shares at the current market value to regain my livelihood.
If you need to pay back taxes, why not just sell a fraction of the house to raise money, and pay the taxes?

What are you talking about with regards to "regaining your livelihood"?

Any constructive suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Well, I hope you see based on my comments above where this could be very confusing to people.

I'm also sceptical of the legality of this. I think there is a general concensus among GLBSE users that it should stay within the legal gray-to-white area of bitcoin and try to stay out of anything illegal. (More importantly, this seems to have been Nefario's view so far.) Trying to sell property that has back taxes owed and/or is about to be seized seems like a sure way to draw attention from legal authorities. Would buying shares potentially leave purchasers with some kind of legal liability? Someone might be able to argue that in court (not that the argument would succeed--but I would rather it not come up at all).
punningclan
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June 22, 2012, 11:38:04 PM
 #12

How much do you owe on it?

Mortgage?  1st? 2nd?

Back Taxes?

Is anyone else an owner? (is the title clouded from your divorce?)

What is the exact financial situation?

The house is fully paid for. There are no other owners, I hold a free and clear title minus back taxes which I'll have to calculate. There is no seizure order and the taxes are limited to around 10 to 15k.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
1J13NBTKiV8xrAo2dwaD4LhWs3zPobhh5S
punningclan
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June 22, 2012, 11:53:51 PM
 #13

What you're proposing is not at all clear to me. I'll point out some of my confusions.

I've just discovered Manchester NH can and plans to take my home and everything in it. After a divorce that saw me lose almost all my wealth, property and family I find my own house is now under duress.
So you're planning to sell something that is about to be seized? Isn't that illegal? Does that mean the the shares will be worthless? Why is it being seized - a part of the divorce, for taxes (both of which you've mentioned), or for something else (e.g. imminent domain)?


This initial offering will sell the value of my house in shares with each pinned to the current market value of the property. All the funds will be reinvested in a spread of securities on the GLBSE stock exchange and all the dividends will be payed to the shareholders. Shareholders will possibly be allowed to vote on this spread.
Well, if you sell the house and raise money, the money is yours. Taking that money and putting it into various GLBSE holdings is up to you.

On the other hand, if you raise money to invest in various GLBSE holdings, that's also a possibility.

It seems like you're trying to combine both of the above, and it's hurting my head to try to understand.

I will maintain a number of the shares and use the dividends from these to pay the outstanding usury taxes and the right to purchase back the shares at the current market value to regain my livelihood.
If you need to pay back taxes, why not just sell a fraction of the house to raise money, and pay the taxes?

What are you talking about with regards to "regaining your livelihood"?

Any constructive suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Well, I hope you see based on my comments above where this could be very confusing to people.

I'm also sceptical of the legality of this. I think there is a general concensus among GLBSE users that it should stay within the legal gray-to-white area of bitcoin and try to stay out of anything illegal. (More importantly, this seems to have been Nefario's view so far.) Trying to sell property that has back taxes owed and/or is about to be seized seems like a sure way to draw attention from legal authorities. Would buying shares potentially leave purchasers with some kind of legal liability? Someone might be able to argue that in court (not that the argument would succeed--but I would rather it not come up at all).


Thank you for your helpful comments mollison.

Some of your questions have been answered in the edited first post. As to the legality of this the only outstanding issue on the property is back taxes that actually don't amount to a great deal. It's likely that I will be able to negotiate a repayment schedule that would easily be accounted for by dividends long before any court involvement. In essence I am leveraging my property while sidestepping huge loan fees and interest required by the banks we are all troubled by. In the event of any unlikely failure the property can be sold and the share holders fully reimbursed.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
1J13NBTKiV8xrAo2dwaD4LhWs3zPobhh5S
punningclan
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June 22, 2012, 11:58:19 PM
 #14

Count me in!
Thank you!

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 22, 2012, 11:59:03 PM
 #15

Its a  nice idea in theory but why not just sell the house and setup an investment fund on glbse with the proceeds ?

I know people in the housing industry and I can tell you a story or 3 about crappy tenants Smiley

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June 23, 2012, 12:06:29 AM
 #16

How much do you owe on it?

Mortgage?  1st? 2nd?

Back Taxes?

Is anyone else an owner? (is the title clouded from your divorce?)

What is the exact financial situation?

The house is fully paid for. There are no other owners, I hold a free and clear title minus back taxes which I'll have to calculate. There is no seizure order and the taxes are limited to around 10 to 15k.

So essentially you want to use your house as security for a 300K glbse offering? 
punningclan
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June 23, 2012, 12:06:34 AM
 #17

Its a  nice idea in theory but why not just sell the house and setup an investment fund on glbse with the proceeds ?

I know people in the housing industry and I can tell you a story or 3 about crappy tenants Smiley


I'm with you but all of a sudden I am tired of backing down! If I sell I'll have to rent again and that will reduce the investment potential of the idea.

Most importantly I can also start selling shares right away and those will immediately start producing dividends and I'll still have somewhere to stay with my own miners.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
1J13NBTKiV8xrAo2dwaD4LhWs3zPobhh5S
punningclan
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June 23, 2012, 12:08:43 AM
 #18

How much do you owe on it?

Mortgage?  1st? 2nd?

Back Taxes?

Is anyone else an owner? (is the title clouded from your divorce?)

What is the exact financial situation?

The house is fully paid for. There are no other owners, I hold a free and clear title minus back taxes which I'll have to calculate. There is no seizure order and the taxes are limited to around 10 to 15k.

So essentially you want to use your house as security for a 300K glbse offering? 

Yes somewhere around that amount, with all of that being reinvested.

It was a cunning plan to have the funny man be the money fan of the punning clan.
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June 23, 2012, 12:11:48 AM
 #19

Its a  nice idea in theory but why not just sell the house and setup an investment fund on glbse with the proceeds ?

I know people in the housing industry and I can tell you a story or 3 about crappy tenants Smiley


I'm with you but all of a sudden I am tired of backing down! If I sell I'll have to rent again and that will reduce the investment potential of the idea.

Most importantly I can also start selling shares right away and those will immediately start producing dividends and I'll still have somewhere to stay with my own miners.

I understand. So essentially whatever funds you raise will be reinvested and used to generate dividends etc ?

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June 23, 2012, 12:13:58 AM
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I like this idea if only because it's an extremely creative way to solve your problem. There are definitely some issues here, but if you've got the guts to try it out, I'll definitely throw in a little bit to help out. Good luck with this!

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