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Question: What method would you like to see BFL use to establish order position for the thousands of orders they get in the first few days? This is only applys to the orders that come in right after they start taking payments (i.e. two week window).  (Voting closed: June 28, 2012, 12:48:06 AM)
First Come First Serve - 0 (0%)
See Option 1 - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 0

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Author Topic: BFL Order Position [Closed]  (Read 1298 times)
allten
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June 23, 2012, 12:48:06 AM
 #1

Edit: complete overhaul of first post

Thanks to everyone who had participated in the Poll.
I had reset the poll looking for input from the community for the options, however, it is now very clear that
"First come First Serve" is the winner. Still not sure how many would be against the hybrid version proposed by Steve:

The libertarian in me likes a market based solution.  First, determine a rate per day that BFL would like to sell the products (this would be based on a lot of factors including manufacturing capacity, need to raise capital to fund the manufacturing, etc).  On day 1, list the items for a very high premium over the announced prices.  If nothing sells on day 1, or less than the targeted amount sells, then on day 2 they lower the price.  If more sold, then you raise the price (although the objective would be to steadily lower the price each day until you hit the announced prices).  Trade-ins would be treated no different than cash buyers.  Shipping then happens in order of purchase.  BFL would also ship in a steady flow rather than huge batches at once (and agree not to use hardware in there possession for mining while it awaits shipment).  The reason for this is that the early buyers are seeking to get the hardware earlier and start mining before everyone else gets the hardware…and they are paying a premium for it.  So, if BFL gets a shipment of 30 mini rigs and expect to get another shipment of 30 the next months, rather than ship all 30 at once, they would ship 1 per day (in purchase order).

A somewhat non market based twist on this is that they might want to restrict the number of units one person can order…this would prevent someone with deep pockets from buying a very substantial portion of the hardware, costs be damned.  Of course, there are ways such a rule could be circumvented and I wonder whether such a rule would actually work counter to the goal of distributing the hardware.  Someone successfully circumventing the process might gain an unfair advantage over someone else with a lot of capital, but abiding by the rules.  So, I tend to think it's actually better not to have such limits.


I think this would clear up a lot of issues not just for the community, but for BFL as well.

Either way, it's their business not mine; there choice not ours, but I am grateful they took this issue into serious consideration.
Transitioning to ASICs is going to be an interesting ride. Since BFL is making it happen, their involvement in the community is a very positive sign in my opinion.


Edit: Oh crap, here I am updating my thread and orders have already commenced a while ago. Sucks I had to be out today.
       Good luck to all in their order positions.

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June 23, 2012, 12:52:18 AM
 #2

They could hire me to manage their order/shipping list!  Grin

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June 23, 2012, 12:57:24 AM
 #3

Given that they don't have the supply to fill all of the demand it's pretty easy to fix this problem, namely by adjusting the price.

Those who want it first can pay more and get it faster. Those who don't care when they get it or can't afford it, can pay less but get it later. Charge the most for the first and then slowly lower the price to establish and maintain the supply/demand equilibrium.

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June 23, 2012, 01:39:38 AM
 #4

Auction!

Or just start with a very high price and start to drop it as orders slow down.


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June 23, 2012, 03:01:05 AM
 #5

Uhhh....what's a BFL?

Is it like finding a DVT on PEX and having to get a CT CAP to r/o PE or pelvic VTE?

Don't ya just hate it when you don't know the lingo?

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June 23, 2012, 03:13:47 AM
 #6

bg002h, BFL is mining gear manufacturer http://www.butterflylabs.com/
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June 23, 2012, 04:26:41 AM
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As I'd probably need to pay via bank wire (+ trade-in), it would be nice to see it randomized at the start at least.
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June 23, 2012, 05:44:42 AM
 #8

The libertarian in me likes a market based solution.  First, determine a rate per day that BFL would like to sell the products (this would be based on a lot of factors including manufacturing capacity, need to raise capital to fund the manufacturing, etc).  On day 1, list the items for a very high premium over the announced prices.  If nothing sells on day 1, or less than the targeted amount sells, then on day 2 they lower the price.  If more sold, then you raise the price (although the objective would be to steadily lower the price each day until you hit the announced prices).  Trade-ins would be treated no different than cash buyers.  Shipping then happens in order of purchase.  BFL would also ship in a steady flow rather than huge batches at once (and agree not to use hardware in there possession for mining while it awaits shipment).  The reason for this is that the early buyers are seeking to get the hardware earlier and start mining before everyone else gets the hardware…and they are paying a premium for it.  So, if BFL gets a shipment of 30 mini rigs and expect to get another shipment of 30 the next months, rather than ship all 30 at once, they would ship 1 per day (in purchase order).

A somewhat non market based twist on this is that they might want to restrict the number of units one person can order…this would prevent someone with deep pockets from buying a very substantial portion of the hardware, costs be damned.  Of course, there are ways such a rule could be circumvented and I wonder whether such a rule would actually work counter to the goal of distributing the hardware.  Someone successfully circumventing the process might gain an unfair advantage over someone else with a lot of capital, but abiding by the rules.  So, I tend to think it's actually better not to have such limits.

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June 23, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
 #9

It definitely makes most sense to simply start with high prices and go with first come first served. Don't announce when and if you'll lower the prices, lower them unpredictably when you deem it necessary. Eventually the price will be at a level where demand covers all of your production and delivery capability and then you have equilibrium. You make maximum profits and we as customers can make our own decision, we can either order expensive products and get them faster or wait until they get cheaper and get them later. Works for everyone.

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June 23, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
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The libertarian in me likes a market based solution.  First, determine a rate per day that BFL would like to sell the products (this would be based on a lot of factors including manufacturing capacity, need to raise capital to fund the manufacturing, etc).  On day 1, list the items for a very high premium over the announced prices.  If nothing sells on day 1, or less than the targeted amount sells, then on day 2 they lower the price.  If more sold, then you raise the price (although the objective would be to steadily lower the price each day until you hit the announced prices).  Trade-ins would be treated no different than cash buyers.  Shipping then happens in order of purchase.  BFL would also ship in a steady flow rather than huge batches at once (and agree not to use hardware in there possession for mining while it awaits shipment).  The reason for this is that the early buyers are seeking to get the hardware earlier and start mining before everyone else gets the hardware…and they are paying a premium for it.  So, if BFL gets a shipment of 30 mini rigs and expect to get another shipment of 30 the next months, rather than ship all 30 at once, they would ship 1 per day (in purchase order).

A somewhat non market based twist on this is that they might want to restrict the number of units one person can order…this would prevent someone with deep pockets from buying a very substantial portion of the hardware, costs be damned.  Of course, there are ways such a rule could be circumvented and I wonder whether such a rule would actually work counter to the goal of distributing the hardware.  Someone successfully circumventing the process might gain an unfair advantage over someone else with a lot of capital, but abiding by the rules.  So, I tend to think it's actually better not to have such limits.

+1
This would solve a lot of their headaches too with everyone fighting to secure their position.
Although, I don't see why they would need to raise the prices after lowered as long as they do it smoothly.
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June 23, 2012, 03:43:06 PM
 #11

Update: The options in the poll don't communicate very well the great ideas that are being posted below. The top pick by far as been first come first serve.
The idea of falling auction could also be seen as first come first serve. It's just those that ordered first at the higher price get served first.

So, currently the poll is locked and reset to 0. Everyone feel free to give your best idea and explain it well. At the end of the day, I will link each option to your post and open the voting one last time.
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June 24, 2012, 05:08:27 AM
 #12

Last Edit (Post completely redone)
Thanks to everyone that participated in the poll.
I reset the Poll to get better input from the community for the options, however, it looks like it's a done deal.

"First come first Serve" was the top choice by far. I don't know how many of those that choose this option would be opposed to a different form
of "First come first serve". Basically, BFL could start out with extra high prices and let them slowly fall to to the prices already given.
Steve sums it pretty well in his post below:

Quote from: Steve on June 23, 2012, 05:44:42 AM
The libertarian in me likes a market based solution.  First, determine a rate per day that BFL would like to sell the products (this would be based on a lot of factors including manufacturing capacity, need to raise capital to fund the manufacturing, etc).  On day 1, list the items for a very high premium over the announced prices.  If nothing sells on day 1, or less than the targeted amount sells, then on day 2 they lower the price.  If more sold, then you raise the price (although the objective would be to steadily lower the price each day until you hit the announced prices).  Trade-ins would be treated no different than cash buyers.  Shipping then happens in order of purchase.  BFL would also ship in a steady flow rather than huge batches at once (and agree not to use hardware in there possession for mining while it awaits shipment).  The reason for this is that the early buyers are seeking to get the hardware earlier and start mining before everyone else gets the hardware…and they are paying a premium for it.  So, if BFL gets a shipment of 30 mini rigs and expect to get another shipment of 30 the next months, rather than ship all 30 at once, they would ship 1 per day (in purchase order).

A somewhat non market based twist on this is that they might want to restrict the number of units one person can order…this would prevent someone with deep pockets from buying a very substantial portion of the hardware, costs be damned.  Of course, there are ways such a rule could be circumvented and I wonder whether such a rule would actually work counter to the goal of distributing the hardware.  Someone successfully circumventing the process might gain an unfair advantage over someone else with a lot of capital, but abiding by the rules.  So, I tend to think it's actually better not to have such limits.


I think this solves a lot for the community and also BFL labs as they could avoid a flurry of initial orders.

Either way, it's their business not mine. Their choice not ours, but I really appreciate that they took it into consideration.
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