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Author Topic: [GLBSE Interest] Smaller PPT bonds  (Read 872 times)
btharper
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June 23, 2012, 08:07:32 AM
 #1

Would anyone be interested in a Pirate pass through in the 10, 50, or 100 mBTC range? (0.01, 0.05, 0.1 BTC respectively)

I'm stealing the idea from an earlier proposal that planned to offer very small mining bonds, but what currently makes the most sense to me is offering a 0.05 BTC based share so that even someone owning a single PPT share at 1 BTC can buy a whole share of something with the proceeds; this also keeps the price fairly low without adding a crazy number of shares.

The other issue is that investing with pirate directly isn't easy, and as I have neither a referral, huge sums to deposit myself, or huge reputation to stake into getting any of the above (and there is already a solid report of pirate sending money back on new accounts). Investing through another PPT security may be the easiest way to go about things. Currently FOO.PPPT offers the highest rate but weekly buy in only gets as cheap as 1.05 for the full 7%, and TYGRR.BOND-P has weekly buy in at 1.02 to get 6.8% (these even out at about three and a half months time).

tl;dr - Would you be interested in buying a 0.05 (or 0.01 or 0.1) BTC share of a larger PPT on GLBSE?
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brendio
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June 24, 2012, 05:33:46 AM
 #2

BIB.PIRATE currently offers the best wholesale rates on bulk orders. For smaller orders, you are better off with the assets you mention (or BIB.PIRATE on market if someone is selling).

PM me if you go ahead and we can discuss.

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June 24, 2012, 08:13:27 AM
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BIB.PIRATE currently offers the best wholesale rates on bulk orders. For smaller orders, you are better off with the assets you mention (or BIB.PIRATE on market if someone is selling).

PM me if you go ahead and we can discuss.
Sorry, I definitely have noticed your bond, it just didn't look like the best option to use as the underlying asset. The rate per bond is great for large orders as you said, but as I've had little interest so far I probably won't create a large initial offering. Your weekly rate is also lower than FOO.PPPT or TYGRR.BOND-P, which puts an obvious cut into profits for investors, myself, or both. Additionally being able to run everything though GLBSE is a bit of a plus for me, but definitely second to getting the best rates.
The best things I can see going for you across accounts of any size are that your prices fluctuate on GLBSE differently than any of the other PPT dividend bonds and that your account is older than bitfoo's (I was not able to quickly find the age of Goat's account).

Thanks for the offer though.
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June 24, 2012, 11:16:32 AM
 #4

Remember to calculate your running yield based on weekly coupon/purchase price. A coupon that yields 0.07 BTC weekly, but for which you pay 1.05 does not yield 7 %, but rather 0.07/1.05 = 6.67 %. You also need to factor in that if you need to sell back to the issuer at 1 BTC, you will also have a capital loss of 0.05 BTC over the term you hold the investment.

I've discovered that irrational markets just look at the largest nominal yield and go for that without really looking at which investment really offers the best deal.

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June 24, 2012, 11:43:33 AM
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I bought a few dozen shares from Bitfoo at 1.0 BTC, so I get the full 7% there...

Since you charge fixed fees per transaction, it only makes sense to invest in BIB.PIRATE with big sums at once (or withdraw big sums at once), otherwise the fees would be higher than other "investments".

I would offer trade-ins ("1 share of FOO.PPPPPPPPPPT = 100 shares of BABYPIRATE", "1 share of BIB.PIRATE = 80 shares of BABYPIRATE" or whatever other conversion rate you like) to get around expansion + buying bonds issues.

As soon as the dividend API is finalized, I'm probably launching an asset on my own on GLBSE again... something like the asset you suggest could very well be part of it too.

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btharper
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June 24, 2012, 06:13:55 PM
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Remember to calculate your running yield based on weekly coupon/purchase price. A coupon that yields 0.07 BTC weekly, but for which you pay 1.05 does not yield 7 %, but rather 0.07/1.05 = 6.67 %. You also need to factor in that if you need to sell back to the issuer at 1 BTC, you will also have a capital loss of 0.05 BTC over the term you hold the investment.

I've discovered that irrational markets just look at the largest nominal yield and go for that without really looking at which investment really offers the best deal.
That is true, and that's where the three and a half month breakeven between FOO.PPPT and TYGRR.BOND-P came from 1.05@7% or 1.02@6.8% for FOO.PPPT and TYGRR.BOND-P respectively. Both of these bonds offer buy-in at these rates weekly, both performing around 6.667% yield as you said.

If we turn the same math onto your bond however, using the par value for the transfer fee calculations (to simplify it down some, this favors BIB.PIRATE) for your market maker system. 100 shares can be purchased for 1.022 each, and 200 for 1.012 each; with expected yields around 6.605% and 6.670% respectively.

The easiest way for me to argue it to myself is that after six months, getting the full 7% pulls ahead of any other offering at current rates.


I bought a few dozen shares from Bitfoo at 1.0 BTC, so I get the full 7% there...

Since you charge fixed fees per transaction, it only makes sense to invest in BIB.PIRATE with big sums at once (or withdraw big sums at once), otherwise the fees would be higher than other "investments".

I would offer trade-ins ("1 share of FOO.PPPPPPPPPPT = 100 shares of BABYPIRATE", "1 share of BIB.PIRATE = 80 shares of BABYPIRATE" or whatever other conversion rate you like) to get around expansion + buying bonds issues.

As soon as the dividend API is finalized, I'm probably launching an asset on my own on GLBSE again... something like the asset you suggest could very well be part of it too.
I wish I could have gotten in sooner with all of this in general, congratulations on the good grab though.

I do want to offer trade-ins, but particularly at first there would probably be a high minimum.

I'm also not sure if I like the name BABYPIRATE or not to be honest, I'll have to figure that out. Mind if I use it though? Something like TINYPIRATE might have fewer connotations around it.

What part of the API are you waiting for? If you're just waiting to see if you've been paid the weekly dividend before reinvesting in more normal PPT bonds or put the little pieces into something like this? Or automating dividend payouts to security holders?
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June 24, 2012, 06:43:03 PM
 #7

I would be interested in this. A small investor could use these to compound their interest faster.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
bitfoo
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June 25, 2012, 11:44:21 AM
 #8

If you intend to issue this asset and want to back it with FOO.PPPPPPPT, PM me with any details and we can work something out.

Wouldn't this then be a PPTPT (Pirate Pass-Through Pass-Through?) Smiley

btharper
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June 25, 2012, 01:57:26 PM
 #9

I would be interested in this. A small investor could use these to compound their interest faster.
That's the plan,  I'm just trying to sort out the details now and make sure people care enough. Thanks for the interest though.
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